PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pictures

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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby rustyjames » 22 Sep 2017, 00:43

Hi expresso,

Understood, but I'm using the Hyperion 1420, not the PL8 like you guys. So, I can't just use one connection since the Hyperion, each connector is limited to a 7S pack. I've have to use both the A & B plugs and that is what's confusing me. Otherwise I would continue to plagiarize your work :D
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby expresso » 22 Sep 2017, 00:50

Oh ok - sorry cant help there - that confuses me also - glad i never got one of them - and went right to the PL 8 -

but you can see at least where the wires would go on the Battery end - on the charger end is a different story - but i would think once you got the correct order on the charger end - 0 - 8 - you can just follow my pictures for the battery end
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 22 Sep 2017, 04:06

On the RIGHT side connector, you have 8 wires.

The FIRST pin to the RIGHT is the negative. Thats pin 0.
The next 7 pins are cells 1,2,3,4,5,6,7...

That last pin, 7, is also pin 0 on the next connector.
So on connector 2 you use pins 0 and 1 for the last cell.

76543210 76543210
Same as each other, same point on battery. So pos cell7, neg cell8
Cell8 pos
Pos end cells 123456
Neg
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby rustyjames » 22 Sep 2017, 13:06

Thanks BM, I appreciate your time explaining!
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby expresso » 22 Sep 2017, 14:55

whow - that would keep me busy figuring that out for a while - glad i jumped in on this with the Pl 8 -
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 22 Sep 2017, 19:25

No its easy. Just the same, bit with 2 connectors. My last hyperion just failed... Thats 4 over 6 years. They seem to be like light bulbs. No PL8 failures yet. And used a lot.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby rustyjames » 22 Sep 2017, 21:10

expresso wrote:whow - that would keep me busy figuring that out for a while - glad i jumped in on this with the Pl 8 -


Don't think that I know exactly what to do. Maybe buy a PL8 :lol:
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby expresso » 22 Sep 2017, 22:21

rustyjames wrote:
expresso wrote:whow - that would keep me busy figuring that out for a while - glad i jumped in on this with the Pl 8 -


Don't think that I know exactly what to do. Maybe buy a PL8 :lol:


i hear you - wish i could be more help here - its close but still no cigar - if anyone has a picture of this charger how its connected - would help i think to see it - Hey - if you can Ebay it - and get Pl 8 - not a bad idea either
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 22 Sep 2017, 22:43

Buy a couple of cheap 2 or 3 or 4S small hobby lipos.
Plug one in port A and the other in port B.

Connect the things in series. Press go!

Then copy how those are wired. I honestly cant think of any more ways to explain it. Its simple!

Treat as ONE 7S, and ONE 1S cell.
OR
Treat as 2x 4S batteries.

The hyperion was OK in its day, but trned out unreliable. The PL8 was at that time how shall we say, underdeveloped... So unusable.
But 1420 has been out of production years now. I would get a PL8 anyway after many updates and fixes, some caused by me, ebay the hyperion. The PL8 is electrically more reliable, and now functions great.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby rustyjames » 22 Sep 2017, 23:14

I think I'm getting there, I just spent some time studying over at Endless-Sphere.com. I really need to learn this stuff anyway, if I'm going to be fiddling around with it. My main concern at the moment is I don't want to have smoke coming out of the Hyperion :lol:
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby rustyjames » 22 Sep 2017, 23:20

Hyperion could have provided a schematic for dummies like me. But I came across this which helps with my understanding:
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Dan » 28 Sep 2017, 10:24

Just how is the pack hooked up to the chairs batteries? Do you just take the positive to the positive and negative to negative?

This is the picture of my chair. Would it be ok to put a SP50 (50 amp one but I also have a 120Amp one if that would be better) where I have marked on the pic? Presuming the leads on the right are connecting the batteries in series.

The batteries are terminals ring. I plan to.
Make a 8AWG lead with ring terminals connect to batteries, the other end of the cable being a SP50. With a 100Amp inline midi fuse.
A similar cable coming from the new pack to connect to the SP50 which was added to the chair.

Also coming from the pack another lead made from 12AWG to a SP50 with the balance wires. This will be connected to the charger.

I hope the charge the chair and pack at the same time.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 28 Sep 2017, 11:04

If you connect there you will get zero volts. I think. Use a multi meter. I think its the other two terminals. If you see 24V thats it. Yes parallel.

I did mine like this:

download/file.php?id=6620&mode=view
And
download/file.php?id=6617&mode=view
And
download/file.php?id=6622&mode=view

More pics on here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6151

Where the loop, is in place of the battery joining link, that you ringed on your pic. And the two unused ones here are 0V and 24V.

So you can get 12V, parallel, 24V, or pull the link when the chair is stored so its battery doesent discharge. Or connect an external pack.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Dan » 29 Sep 2017, 23:16

Looks good BM but I'm trying to keep things simple for now.
I plan to set the pack in a box attached to the back of the chair. There is loads of room back there. Its my first attempt at anything like this.

I can just hook the pack to the main batteries in parallel? Neg from the pack to Neg on the chair and Pos from the pack to Pos on the chair? Thats the chairs battery terminals with 24V out.
What way did you hook yours up Expresso?

The pack is built, I am discharging it a bit using Expresso's 36Ah lifepo4 addon preset. All cells are at 3.297V
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 29 Sep 2017, 23:35

Yes as you described. But neater to do as I did, but just one anderson.
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Dan » 30 Sep 2017, 00:01

I do kind of wanna do it the way yours was done but I have to talk someone else into doing the labour.

Is that just 50Amp SB50's you were using? What size of fuse would I use on the live wires? I have some 120Amp midi about somewhere. Would you also fuse the leads to the loop wire?
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Re: Step By Step 30ah Pack build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 30 Sep 2017, 00:09

Yes you just need an anderson 50 and some wires, and two ring terminals. You can fit a fuse that protects the cables. If you use 6sqmm cables a 60 or 70A fuse will be OK. If you use 10sq mm cables, as I did, a 100 or 120A fuse is OK. If your addon battery cables are only 6sqmm you need a 70A fuse at the battery pack.

I would use 10mm cable for both though.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 31 Mar 2018, 19:58

I have a Permobil M300 and I need new batteries. I was planning on getting the MK gels, group 34 and making one of these. But I started thinking how much harder is it to just go 100% lithium?
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 31 Mar 2018, 20:38

Group 34 is a more dificult size. But it can still be done. The main difference is cost.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 31 Mar 2018, 20:52

Do you mean more difficult for a full convert or ADD ON? The M300 will use group 34 or 24.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 31 Mar 2018, 21:07

Group 24 is easy. There is now a simple way since sinopoly made a high rate 100Ah cell that is a convenient size. As long as you have 221mm height or more.

That will double your range and a little more.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 31 Mar 2018, 21:20

Are the instructions in the long conversion thread?
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 31 Mar 2018, 21:55

Pretty much.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Dan » 18 Apr 2018, 14:53

expresso do you have a copy of the latest PL8 settings for charging this 30Ah pack and the chairs batteries simultaneously?
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby expresso » 18 Apr 2018, 15:51

Dan wrote:expresso do you have a copy of the latest PL8 settings for charging this 30Ah pack and the chairs batteries simultaneously?


Hi - yes - i called the preset - Combined - its set at 15A charge rate - you can change that if you want faster -

i also gave you another one which you can charge the ADD ON pack only if you like - if you needed it - not combined with the lead - it says 36ah - dosnt mean anything - my first pack was 36ah -

just use the Combined preset if charging both lead and lithium together - if you leave them connected all the time - its best and works like a charm :)
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Dan » 18 Apr 2018, 20:18

Thanks! Summer is coming, I hope, the winters here are coldish, wet, dark and windy and I don't do so well in the cold :thumbdown: I'm hoping to get over 25 miles at 8MPH with the pack.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby expresso » 18 Apr 2018, 22:30

you should be able to - but it all depends on other factors - your chair - the condition of the Lead you have already - roads you drive on - etc,

my chair is light - i am using new MK Gel 24 and 36ah ADD ON - my chair is an 8.5 mph chair - dosnt feel it though since they have changed the motors or i got used to the faster chair and this one feels slow - either way - i have gotten 25 to 26 miles this way - before hitting the Red - or right before the red

once you start loosing your green light on the JS - head back - but that happened to me around the 18 mile mark - i was already on my way back on that trip

you have to get used to your chair with it and learn how far it can go etc, you dont want to do too low - if you are making a cell monitor that can be more helpful for you

i never used one yet -
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 26 Apr 2018, 21:55

expresso,

Do you have pictures of the cable that connects the add-on to the batteries? The ends. I have read the thread but don't remember seeing it. Or do you have a parts list?

Would you (or anyone else) be interested in making the cable? I'd pay for parts + time.

I just need that cable now because my batteries are about shot, so I was going to have it installed when they install my MK Group 34 batteries. The M300 is really hard to get to the batteries.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby expresso » 26 Apr 2018, 22:53

you can use 8AWG cable Silicone is good - use 1/4 inch connectors on one end and the other end is SB50 -

you mean the cable from the lead batteries to outside the chair - then you can connect the ADD ON to it -

i have to look if i have pictures of that - when i get a moment i check - i may not have pics of that cable

measure how long you will need depending where you will mount it - give your self some slack room if you can for when you remove the batteries - if they pull out etc, so the cable wont stop limit you from doing that -
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby expresso » 27 Apr 2018, 00:41

i dont have any pics of the cable itself - but here is the one end which you connect to the battery - then the other end is a SB50 connector -

thats it - you can add some braided loom to make it look nice - you want to crimp and solder - heatshrink etc,

you can use 8 AWG for this cable -
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