PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pictures

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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 11 May 2018, 17:49

I made one end of the cable that goes directly to the batteries. When I was heating the end I could feel heat going up the cable. Maybe about 2 inches. Is this that bad?

The terminal ring is on tight though. I used flex, solder and crimped it.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 11 May 2018, 22:45

flex
?

Flux? The heat will go up the cable as its copper. Transfers heat well.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 11 May 2018, 23:24

Yes, I meant flux. :oops:
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby ex-Gooserider » 15 May 2018, 01:39

As BM said, the cable is copper, which is an excellent conductor of heat, so you WILL get heat traveling along it, no way to prevent that....

What is important is to LIMIT the amount of heat to something that doesn't do any harm - excess heat will damage the wire insulation, can damage parts if soldering electronics, etc....

More of a concern is that if you heat the wire enough, the molten solder will wick up the wire away from the joint, making the wire into a solid, which is then a stress point that is likely to fail at some later point.

This means that you should limit the amount of heat to only what it takes to to do the job, and work as quickly as possible so that you don't add any more heat than is needed, and don't allow time for the rest of the work to get hot enough to be a problem.

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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 15 May 2018, 22:28

ex-Gooserider wrote:More of a concern is that if you heat the wire enough, the molten solder will wick up the wire away from the joint, making the wire into a solid, which is then a stress point that is likely to fail at some later point.


That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby snaker » 16 May 2018, 02:30

ex-Gooserider wrote:More of a concern is that if you heat the wire enough, the molten solder will wick up the wire away from the joint, making the wire into a solid, which is then a stress point that is likely to fail at some later point.

I think it would never fail if it was soldered + wrapped by an adhesive heatshrink tube. garriew, try to break an terminal that you have soldered to see how solid it is. You might need professional tools to break it :mrgreen:
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 16 May 2018, 17:52

Burgerman wrote:Your lithium pack connects to the 0V and the 24V terminals.

I'm getting new batteries on my wheelchair next week and the technician is going to install the cable. When I told him it connects to the 0v and 24v terminals. He asked if that was the positive and negative.

Well, I don't know the answer. Since there are four posts, 2/battery, how would I determine the 0v and 24v posts? Or should I say how would he?
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 16 May 2018, 17:56

Your "technician" is an idiot.

Honestly thats like asking a vet which is the front and rear of your dog.

Find a competant person before yours hurts himself or you. If he cant tell just by a quick glance at the cables, and he can, then just test with a volt meter. The two that show 24 or 25 volts are it...
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 16 May 2018, 18:39

Burgerman wrote:Your "technician" is an idiot.

Honestly thats like asking a vet which is the front and rear of your dog.

Find a competant person before yours hurts himself or you. If he cant tell just by a quick glance at the cables, and he can, then just test with a volt meter. The two that show 24 or 25 volts are it...

lol

Just to be clear.

One post will have 0v and I put the negative to it and one will have 24v and it get's the postive. Right?
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 16 May 2018, 18:46

Yep. If it reads 12 or 0 you failed!
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby ex-Gooserider » 22 May 2018, 02:58

The problem isn't the part of the wire that actually got soldered, but rather the part NEXT to it... The solder turns the wire from stranded stuff that allows each strand to flex slightly differently when the wire is bent into a 'blob' that won't bend, so all the bend force goes into the area right where the solder ends. The result is repeated bending in one small area, leading to metal fatigue and failure - which is then hard to find because the insulation both holds the ends together MOST of the time - intermittent failures are harder to find, and hides it from visual examination...

Strain relief is a major factor in any sort of electronics / electrical project, you NEVER want to have flex at an attachment point if it can possibly be avoided, instead tie the wire down so that the flex happens in the wire, not at the joint....

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snaker wrote:
ex-Gooserider wrote:More of a concern is that if you heat the wire enough, the molten solder will wick up the wire away from the joint, making the wire into a solid, which is then a stress point that is likely to fail at some later point.

I think it would never fail if it was soldered + wrapped by an adhesive heatshrink tube. garriew, try to break an terminal that you have soldered to see how solid it is. You might need professional tools to break it :mrgreen:
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 25 May 2018, 20:18

I'm going to start charging my batteries this weekend. Do I need to number each battery? Any tips?
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby expresso » 25 May 2018, 21:56

garriew wrote:I'm going to start charging my batteries this weekend. Do I need to number each battery? Any tips?



i always numbered them -

this is just an ADD ON - ? its not going to sit for a few months after you charge to check the discharge rate ?
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 25 May 2018, 23:02

expresso wrote:this is just an ADD ON - ? its not going to sit for a few months after you charge to check the discharge rate ?
ADD ON. I was gonna let them sit for a few weeks.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby expresso » 25 May 2018, 23:07

ok you can do that even a month is fine -

the first ADD ON i did - i didnt do anything and just slapped them together - 36ah - and its going great -

the 30ah ADD ON - i did let them sit also for a month maybe and then try to match them best i can to keep it tight - its harder to do with small pack

number them or else you wont know what cell is which when you recharge them up after sitting a while - and write it all down on paper also -
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby expresso » 25 May 2018, 23:11

http://www.chinafrey.com/enproducts_show.aspx?id=399

i just found these also which i want to make another ADD ON with - 60ah this time to replace the 36ah i no longer have -

its on a friends chair - her Pride Rival - first time out - it got 20 miles - which was great consider it was about 8 to 10 - 12 ish maybe before with just lead alone

its new MK 24 so a dozen more times of using it should improve - just goes to show it will depend on chair etc, - with my chair i got 25 miles with the same 36ah pack - lighter chair with just tilt -

will be replacing with this 60ah if price is good - waiting on there response -
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 25 May 2018, 23:22

expresso wrote:http://www.chinafrey.com/enproducts_show.aspx?id=399

i just found these also which i want to make another ADD ON with - 60ah this time to replace the 36ah i no longer have -
That looks nice.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 28 May 2018, 01:58

My 1st one is done. Took 20 minutes.

1 Volts.png
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 01 Jun 2018, 19:10

Batteries are charged! I didn't know what to write for the first five but saved the graphs. The others are:

6 = 273
7 = 209
8 = 233
9 = 339
10 = 312
11 = 436
12 = 241
13 = 252
14 = 289
15 = 253
16 = 245
17 = 502
18 = 245
19 = 243
20 = 323
21 = 254
22 = 357
23 = 266
24 = 280
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 01 Jun 2018, 20:55

11 and 17 are a bit away from the average. When you assemble the pack try to put those at the edge, as they are more likely to deteriorate then the rest.

Get the data from the graphs for the first few.

Assemble into 8 groups, of equal number, that have the same TOTAL mAh once they are added up.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 04 Jun 2018, 03:45

Burgerman wrote:Get the data from the graphs for the first few.

Which graphs show it?
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 04 Jun 2018, 09:55

Ah returned
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Dan » 19 Jun 2018, 16:02

There is some talk about fitting a diode between the battery and the add on pack. Should I fit one between my battery and a 30Ah pack? Which one? Live wire only?
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jun 2018, 16:17

Is the addon a sensible size? If so, no need.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby garriew » 10 Jul 2018, 20:07

I'm going to start recharging the cells. It's been about a month since I first charged them.

I have a question though... I am adding a 12/24 volt usb charger to the factory batteries. It has eye rings. Will I plug it to the same posts that I install the cable for the pack? The 0 volt & 24 volt posts.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 10 Jul 2018, 22:22

Yes.
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby hobie1dog » 12 Jul 2018, 22:39

I just read all 25 pages, gradually getting educated, as I always was a slow learner. :shifty:
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 13 Jul 2018, 00:06

Are you going to give it a go?
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby hobie1dog » 13 Jul 2018, 03:18

Burgerman wrote:Are you going to give it a go?

I simply don't have the money at this point. Living on disability income leaves very little left over. I'm still selling things on the classified sites as I have been doing the last 3 years since getting screwed up, to come up with money for various car repairs. And I still haven't been able to get my Suburban running for the past year, just no money to get new brakes and tires needed before it will pass inspection. :evil:
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Re: PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pict

Postby Burgerman » 15 Jul 2018, 22:21

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius,_North_Carolina

Looks like a decent place. A rich white religous town. Is there a reason that disabled here get less money to live on or less help in other ways compared to other parts of the US?

I ask because much like myself, and obviously a few others here, expresso in new york (where housing really costs a lot), has housing, pizzas, wine, heat, several carers, 2 or 3 chairs, and a bunch of lithium batteries as main packs and addons, chargers, power supplies etc, also in the US. Different places, different levels of help and assistance?
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