New iBOT

[Burgerman]

What do you make of the new 2.0 iBot?

I tested the pre production 3000 with many issues and the redesigned 4000 (which was worse in many ways) and as a daily chair I wouldnt thank you for it.

But its balance mode was nice. But too slow, and I got it to fall down easiy. Just approach a 1 inch edge going forwards... And I wanted to try it in a train as it set off. Neither of us could figure what it might do. He wouldnt let me try it. They might not have thought of that!

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker ... en-revival

[Irving]

That was 15 months ago and no more info... I wonder about the "licencing balancing technologies" as there are several better 'balancers' around (Boston Dynamic's one here now 'owned' by Google) - a 1" step shouldn't be an issue, the Genny and Devlo both claim 3 - 4" capable.

[Burgerman]

Maybe more impressive.
youtu.be/rVlhMGQgDkY

[greybeard]

There are some damned clever people on this planet!

[ex-Gooserider]

I haven't heard / seen anything since the flurry of discussion back when the potential revival was announced...

I'd expect that the new version would be better in some ways, given that we have better batteries available, and faster, more sophisticated electronics for the control system.... However my take on BM's test reports was that the biggest issue was the entire basic mechanical package being to big and slow - I don't see that changing, so probably not a big difference...

Personally I have more of an interest in the concept of a 'walker / climber' type chair as that would solve the challenges I face of getting to potential rock climbing sites that wouldn't be capable of being solved by any sort of wheeled device...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Fast summary.
Conventional mode, no suspension, really nose heavy, and hammers casters and carpets. Programming unusable and no programmer of any kind available. You take it or leave it. So thats crap.
4x4 mode ok off road, tears up tyres and cannot sensibly be used on tarmac/concrete if you plan on turning at all.
Balance, fun, but very s l o w ...
Stair climbing, no thanks! It kills batteries, feels unsafe, and it overheated half way up and decided it needed to connect to "service" and shut down.
Armrests too fragile for transfers, and batteries were both too small, and way too expensive. And because they are a one off designed by the chairs manufacturer now not available and causing huge problems to any old ibot users out there.

[MenCallMeGimpy]

the Genny and Devlo both claim 3 - 4" capable.

Is that up the curb or down? I ask, because so many chair makers make bold claims about being able to handle curbs (or stairs), but all the marketing videos show the chair descending, never ascending. The Segway-based devices seem particularly prone to this deceit.

It's like when people ask me "can you get into the pool?" I always reply, "Yes, I have no problem getting into the pool, it's the getting out again that's the problem."

[Burgerman]

The answer always depends...

A skilled user, idealised curb, moving at exactly the right speed to get a balance of momentum and torque correct, with the off road type segway tyres with low pressures and in dry clean grippy conditions and it will climb quite large curbs. However get any one of those wrong can result in a face plant or the thing going all out of shape.

The iBOT can do a 1 inch square edge threshhold easily. But I got it to fall because my approach was on a small decent, and I stopped in a small dip or indentation that made it hard to move to balance. Was trying to balance with a threshold (1 inch curb) in front of it. before trying it (no inertia to help) trapping the wheels in a V shaped groove that made up the shape of the edge of road, curb cut ramp. And it had to be caught by the guy demonstrating it. I suspected that this would trip it over so he was ready. He commented that this wasnt common. But it makes you very wary of less than idealised curbs with flat bottom, 90 climb, flat top shapes.


---------___lIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII This shape...

Thats road, lower gutter, small curb the thickness of a paving slab.It didnt like being trapped and fell when I tried to move forwards.

[Burgerman]

The answer always depends...

A skilled user, idealised curb, moving at exactly the right speed to get a balance of momentum and torque correct, with the off road type segway tyres with low pressures and in dry clean grippy conditions and it will climb quite large curbs. However get any one of those wrong can result in a face plant or the thing going all out of shape.

The iBOT can do a 1 inch square edge threshhold easily. But I got it to fall because my approach was on a small decent, and I stopped in a small dip or indentation that made it hard to move to balance. Was trying to balance with a threshold (1 inch curb) in front of it. before trying it (no inertia to help) trapping the wheels in a V shaped groove that made up the shape of the edge of road, curb cut ramp. And it had to be caught by the guy demonstrating it. I suspected that this would trip it over so he was ready. He commented that this wasnt common. But it makes you very wary of less than idealised curbs with flat bottom, 90 climb, flat top shapes.


---------___lIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII This shape... 15 inch drop, 1 inch climb. Just right to trap it.

Thats road, lower gutter, small curb the thickness of a paving slab.It didnt like being trapped and fell when I tried to move forwards. Likewise try that with a 30 degree approach angle!

[ex-Gooserider]

Seems like a very common sort of curb cut... Seems like most of the cuts I encounter which are more than a year or two old develop some sort of irregularity at the junction between the street and the cut paving... Often they are different materials (concrete vs. asphalt) and the joint crumbles under use and the winter weather, plows, and so on... Result is that there is usually a lip and often a gully at the bottom of the cut, frequently big enough to trap and stop the wheels on a manual chair, unless one does a perfectly timed wheelie to pop over the ditch...

ex-Gooserider

[Irving]

Part of the problem is the iBot's small dia tyres. I've used a Segway pre-accident and its 17" wheels would handle curbs quite well as long as you hit them at 90 degrees and slowly. IIRC Segway's own take on a wheelchair version (damn, can't find the pic now) had small forward outrigger casters that were normally off the ground but could come into play if needed.

[Burgerman]

The iBOT was really just one of the hundreds of stair climbing student projects that made it into production at massive cost.

As is always the case with these things the stuff that mattered to us was ignored almost completely, and only the "wow it can climb stairs", and balance that was important to them. As such it is a terrible daily wheelchair in the one mode you really needed! If you rely on one for your busy life.

In so many quite extreme ways it was terrible. Even when I had access to one I used my own chairs if busy. iBot was for playing about balancing and really thats it. But thats too slow and too limiting to use to go to the bank or pub. So 4x4 mode on the street? You literally can't turn without tearing tyres up and murdering the miniscule battery. So normal mode? Tries to rip its tiny massively overloaded casters off on every edge or lip so on typical pavements around here it was useless. And no suspension, skinny fragile tyres. And its programming was abysmal. And not adjustable. Stair climbing? Do me a favour! Its just a bad chair for serious use, with terrible range.

But I could fix some of that.

[sin85]

Maybe more impressive.
youtu.be/rVlhMGQgDkY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7xvqQeoA8c

this could easily be converted into an awesome chair i hope

[ex-Gooserider]

I'd love to see a "walking" type chair based on one of those guys... As an adaptive rock climber, I love being able to climb outside on real rocks instead of the fake rocks in the gym... However the biggest challenge in trying to do climbing outside is not the climb, but GETTING TO the climb - mother nature is not ADA compliant....

A 'chair' that could clamber over rough ground and 'boulder scramble' would make it a whole lot easier to get to climbs instead of needing the small army of gorillas it takes to carry me in my manual chair...

BTW, a big brag - I went on a trip a few weeks ago and was able to get my first OUTSIDE lead climb - I've been leading in the gym for over a year, but getting a guide to let me lead outside was a major challenge...

Getting started...

Partway up...

It's lots of fun to get high....

Note the lack of a top rope....

I wasn't able to top out and finish the climb, as I have some harness problems that make my legs go to sleep after a while - but the rest of it wasn't that bad looking, and I hope to solve the harness problem and finish the route at some point in the future...

As far as I know, this makes me just the second paraplegic in the world to lead climb, and the first to do so both outside and in the gym...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

And maybe the first double paraplegic!

[Dan]

Well done ex-Gooserider. Looks pretty cool and a lot better than sitting in the house staring at the wall.

[Burgerman]

But he is still staring at the wall!

[ex-Gooserider]

But he is still staring at the wall!

But it's a very nice wall...

And the view when I turn around is really impressive - straight across the Hudson River Valley...

ex-Gooserider