PSU - Info

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Re: PSU - Info

Postby expresso » 17 Nov 2017, 00:36

take pictures of the graphs - then you can post them -
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby Burgerman » 17 Nov 2017, 00:47

anywhere’s from 8mins to 60+...


Let them finish. What is mA termination set to? Should be 15mA ideally according to spec, but if you change it you need to do all again. If its set higher thats ok too, but will result in a faster end. If doing loads I often set it higher and may have done for expresso. Set a 4 hour limit for CV timeout.
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby hotwheels_75 » 17 Nov 2017, 00:48

So save pics of each batteries graph?

I’ll have to start over... banghead
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby Burgerman » 17 Nov 2017, 00:52

Above.
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby expresso » 17 Nov 2017, 00:52

you shouldnt have to start over if you done some and they finished fine - should be fine - just watch it and save the graphs - pictures so you can always check them and look back etc, - start saving the graphs going forward

i dont think you have to start over - but see what BM suggests - i would do the ones you stopped before they finished - those i would do over - - cant be sure what was wrong of maybe nothing at all and they needed to just finish more time
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby hotwheels_75 » 17 Nov 2017, 00:56

Burgerman wrote:
anywhere’s from 8mins to 60+...


Let them finish. What is mA termination set to? Should be 15mA ideally according to spec, but if you change it you need to do all again. If its set higher thats ok too, but will result in a faster end. If doing loads I often set it higher and may have done for expresso. Set a 4 hour limit for CV timeout.


It’s set at 75mA. CV Timeout is 4 Hours. This is my first charge before I let them sit for a month. I’m doing 66 batteries.
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby Burgerman » 17 Nov 2017, 00:59

Then CV should easily end in under 2 hours if the cells are healthy. Probably a lot less if they were quite charged. Let them all charge till they reach termination point.
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby hotwheels_75 » 17 Nov 2017, 03:06

Burgerman wrote:Then CV should easily end in under 2 hours if the cells are healthy. Probably a lot less if they were quite charged. Let them all charge till they reach termination point.



What would you suggest if one doesn’t end in under 2 hours? I put my first battery back on charge after it was already on charge once but didn’t terminate on its own. It’s now been on charge for 2:10 & counting. Current is staying around 300mA, Capacity IN is at 725mAH. Total = 3.619v
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby Burgerman » 17 Nov 2017, 03:09

Is it dropping? Look at the amps graph. It certainly should.
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby hotwheels_75 » 17 Nov 2017, 03:30

Burgerman wrote:Is it dropping? Look at the amps graph. It certainly should.



This is what I’ve got....
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby snaker » 17 Nov 2017, 03:39

@hotwheels_75: take some close pics of your cables that you are using to connect between the charger and the battery and also between the charger and the power supply too. Someone here might check if terminals were properly done?
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby Burgerman » 17 Nov 2017, 11:08

Very strange. Call it done, mark the cell with a question mark. The headway manufacturer says charge to 1000thC which is 12mA. So it should easily reach that. But its not falling as it should.
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby hotwheels_75 » 17 Nov 2017, 19:56

snaker wrote:@hotwheels_75: take some close pics of your cables that you are using to connect between the charger and the battery and also between the charger and the power supply too. Someone here might check if terminals were properly done?


I’ll try to get some pics later tonight. From between my PSU and charger is good quality 10awg silicone wire. I replaced the chargers EC5 connector with an Anderson SB50 connector and put good quality ring terminals to connect to my PSU.
The battery terminals could be an issue, they’re just an old set of battery clamps like these. They’re just temporary until my better ones arrive. They’re attached to the PL8 factory 12awg banana plug wires, with butt connectors.
A0238307-B54A-46E2-9F20-50D483A91327.jpeg



Burgerman wrote:Very strange. Call it done, mark the cell with a question mark. The headway manufacturer says charge to 1000thC which is 12mA. So it should easily reach that. But its not falling as it should.


I retried it again today, & it auto stopped on its own within 3 mins. I’ll still mark it & see what happens. Could a bad connection cause it not to fall off & stop?
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby Burgerman » 17 Nov 2017, 20:05

Could be. We need consistency. Use a ring terminal.
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby hotwheels_75 » 18 Nov 2017, 21:06

I’ve been recharging all my batteries with better luck,until today. Charged around 20 batteries and then started getting errors. First was code 15 Softstart. Google suggested that was lack of psu power. I tried again and got pack removed (undercurrent). I fiddled with the PSU, made sure all connections were tight & reconnected everything. I tried discharging the battery I was working on to take a few mAH out and I got error code 138 discharge amps are positive. I suspect my PSU is dying?

I tried charging again while watching the supply tab on the software. Supply Voltage = 24v @ 0.6A Output = around 17 Watts.

Using SkyRC efuel 50A 1200Watt psu. It was new. Any suggestions? I don’t have a second PSU To test... :thumbdown:
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby Burgerman » 18 Nov 2017, 21:12

Run it from a battery to test. But all those errors, and your non ending charge suggest a bad connection between cell and charger.

Soft start is an error that means the power supply often a generator cant keep the voltage stable as the charger ramps up power. That may be power supply related. Are you using good, soldered connections everywhere? And proper safe banana connections to the charger, not those cheap ebay connectors?
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby hotwheels_75 » 20 Nov 2017, 19:14

steves1977uk wrote:I have the following PSUs...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SKYRC-Efuel-12 ... B00ISTUAFA 15v-24v selection, 60A max at 20v otherwise 50A at 24v. Paid about £170 for this PSU from eBay.

Steve


Hi Steve, have you used your eFuel PSU much? Have you had any problems with it?


Burgerman wrote:Run it from a battery to test. But all those errors, and your non ending charge suggest a bad connection between cell and charger.

Soft start is an error that means the power supply often a generator cant keep the voltage stable as the charger ramps up power. That may be power supply related. Are you using good, soldered connections everywhere? And proper safe banana connections to the charger, not those cheap ebay connectors?


It runs off a battery just fine. Charged 4 cells in a row without an issue.

I’m using the banana connectors on the 12awg silicone cable from Revo, the one that was recommended here, and decent soldered Connections.

I’m pretty sure there’s something wrong with the 50amp outputs of my PSU. I switched over to a 10amp output it provides & so far no more issues. The only time I get non ending charge is when using the 50amp output. I also started getting more consistent “Pack Disconnected (undercurrent)” errors when using the 50amp output.


Is there an easy way to test the PSU output?
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby Burgerman » 20 Nov 2017, 19:22

Many ways to test but you need to know what you are doing and why. I suggest you return it.
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby ex-Gooserider » 21 Nov 2017, 01:07

steves1977uk wrote:I've been using my PL8 with the EC5 connector left intact without any issues, even when charging at 40A. Why not make a PP75 to EC5 short lead ex-G? That way if you have any issues with the PL8 while under warranty, you'd be able to return it unmodified.

Steve


I basically have standardized all my power connections on chairs, PSU's and so on to use the Andersons - on wires AWG 10 - 18, I use the small PP-15/30/45 power poles, with the appropriate sized pin to match the wire size - the shells are the same, you just choose the right pin to fit them according to the wire size. On AWG 6 or 8 I use the PP-75s or SB-50's...

IMHO it makes life a lot simpler...

The shells on the PP-XX family connectors are available in different colors, and it is possible to fit them together in different combinations so keying is possible both by color and mechanically....

I only need to keep one set of tooling and supplies on hand for anything I'm working on. As a side benefit, they are easy connectors to assemble, the small ones are simple crimps, the larger ones arguably can be done crimp only, or soldered for extra (BM says to solder, Anderson says crimp only)

I think the connectors are reasonably robust, and they are electrically safe in that it is all but impossible to short them out...

It is easy to reconfigure a plug if needed, just slide the shells apart and re-position them. It is also relatively easy to swap shells.

As an added benefit, they are already the connector I most frequently encounter in chairs, so one less thing to rewire when modifying stuff... (Note there is an AMP clone of both sizes that will inter-connect with the Andersons, and combine at the shell level, but use different designs for the contacts and shell internals)

By standardizing on the one connector, I don't have to worry about matching equipment and connectors - if I have a PSU, I can plug into it... I have also been adding an extra 30A outlet on any of the chairs so it is easy to connect to the chairs as well.

OTOH, I do NOT like that EC-5 plug - I don't like the design, and it's not a standard for anything I've seen outside the RC model world... I'd just as soon not waste the money on an adapter that just makes for more complexity...

(FWIW I got a rebuilt unit back to replace the one I had that was bad, no comment about the Anderson plugs, so only problem was that I'm now out two shells and two pins - I'm not particularly worried...)

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Re: PSU - Info

Postby hotwheels_75 » 22 Nov 2017, 23:18

Just an FYI for those considering the eFuel PSU,I had an email from revolectrix concerning my charging issues when using the eFuel 50A PSU.


“Three years we issued the following service bulletin concerning the PSU you mentioned. Check that service bulletin at this link:

http://www.revolectrix.com/new_applicat ... 04.14.html

At that time, the PSU was introducing high voltage surges on start up. The service bulletin represents a workaround that should allow for trouble-free operation, as waiting 15 seconds should prove long enough for the output V of the PSU to stabilize. Seems that after that, things work okay. I had heard through the rumor mill that EFuel addressed this issue in newer models; however, this was never confirmed. My recommendation would be to try the steps listed in the service bulletin, and if that doesn't solve the problems you're seeing, try a different PSU or a Pb battery to power the charger. If you're still having trouble, you could send your charger back to get checked out.”

My PL8 works fine when powered by a battery,so it was clearly the PSU in my case. I’ve already returned the PSU for testing so was unable to test the steps provided & can’t confirm that was my issue.
Just wanted others to know of the potential problems with this PSU.
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby expresso » 22 Nov 2017, 23:59

good to know if you have this issue - shouldnt be though if you ask me -

i am using Ebay used PSU - and so far no issues - i keep the PSU connected to the Charger PL 8 - all the time -

PSU is Plugged in Power strip with on - off switch - so first thing i do is switch it on -
then i connect it to the chair pack - charge it - when done - remove from chair pack first - then shut off the switch on power strip and thats it -

if i had to unplug the charger from the PSU everytime and then connect it again etc, - thats a pain - but if thats the only way and it fixes the issue - i guess better than nothing - i would be upset because its not cheap to get one of those PSU -

it should just work -
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby hotwheels_75 » 23 Nov 2017, 00:33

I agree. For the cost of this PSU it should work with no problems. I will see what they say when they get it and test it. I don’t want it if I have to unplug the charger every time I use it. I was keeping everything plugged in & just using the on/off switch on the PSU.
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby hotwheels_75 » 11 Jan 2018, 02:19

An update if anyone is interested. I sent my eFuel 50A PSU back to the hobby shop I bought it from. They cycled 50+ battery packs using multiple different chargers and had no problems. They wouldn’t refund it because I had it longer than the 30 day return policy. They sent it back to me. I tried the work around provided by Revolectrix and it still failed to terminate. I’m stuck with a $500cdn brick.

The PL8 charger works fine off one of my 12v wheelchair batteries. I charged my entire stack of Lifepo4 batteries that way.

I would advise anyone considering the SkyRC eFuel PSUs to buy something else.
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby expresso » 11 Jan 2018, 04:05

thanks for that update - thats good info to know and keep in mind - if i were you - just get on ebay and buy one of those Server models -

this is my most recent - https://www.ebay.com/itm/RC-Power-Suppl ... 2749.l2649

he did raise the price since i got mines at $120 - plus shipping - now its $160 with free shipping - so far its been working -

maybe you can sell yours on ebay since its been checked and working fine - just not working for how we use it i guess with our packs and charger - maybe BM can come up with a solution
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby steves1977uk » 11 Jan 2018, 18:19

hotwheels_75 wrote:
steves1977uk wrote:I have the following PSUs...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SKYRC-Efuel-12 ... B00ISTUAFA 15v-24v selection, 60A max at 20v otherwise 50A at 24v. Paid about £170 for this PSU from eBay.

Steve


Hi Steve, have you used your eFuel PSU much? Have you had any problems with it?


When I used the eFuel PSU it worked fine with the PL8, so not sure why you are having issues :? Sorry for not noticing this post before! :oops:

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Re: PSU - Info

Postby shirley_hkg » 12 Jan 2018, 03:13

goodpost cheers
Fun for the next long holiday . Bought this £20 48V50A PSU & a £10 kit .

Will be another 0--60V 0--50A cc /cv bench power supply .
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby shirley_hkg » 12 Jan 2018, 03:35

goodpost cheers


Will be another 0--60V 0--50A cc /cv bench power supply .

Besides , it has 3-stage charger function built -in , and l can set the CC /CV and terminal current too .

Will use it to power PL8 also . The Siemens psu seems a bit bulky now .
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby Burgerman » 12 Jan 2018, 11:10

30v max. Or smoke!
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby shirley_hkg » 01 Feb 2018, 14:38

Can't wait till holiday .

Success in first try . cheers
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Re: PSU - Info

Postby shirley_hkg » 13 Feb 2018, 02:14

COST :
ZXD 2400 a 3000W psu £40(new) / £20(used)
Mod kit £10
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