Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

[Burgerman]

Properly assembled, ie grease, stainless fasteners and bearings in key places, and other than possible actuators wearing out, or motors, there little reason these chairs should not be serviceable for decades. And 4 pole motors are pretty hard wearing today. And actuators are cheap enough if any fail. 2 of my chairs are 20 years old. Rebuilt several tmes each!

So the "service life" of 5 years stamped in the handbooks is then bullshit.

Quite frankly from my experience it's because they don't care. That extra labour time + grease cuts into their profits and if the chair seizes then the NHS/customer has to buy a new one. So they win all round. Longevity doesn't play well with their profits.

[Burgerman]

In your case, overall width will be 24.5 inches. Actually a little less.

But these make it 1.75 inches wider each side.

[shirley_hkg]

But these make it 1.75 inches wider each side.

What tyre are there if we choose 2.5" rims ?

How much narrower then ?

[Burgerman]

Theres no tyre that is the same diameter. Powerchairs come with 1.75 to 2.5 wide rims. A 3.50 x 8 fits correctly on a 2.5 rim, but looks tall and thin in comparison.

[rover220]

In your case, overall width will be 24.5 inches. Actually a little less.

But these make it 1.75 inches wider each side.

Looks spot on that does.

[Burgerman]

Yes. Thanks. Not bad for about £9 a wheel! Plus some expensive tyres...

[salixfire]

In your case, overall width will be 24.5 inches. Actually a little less.

But these make it 1.75 inches wider each side.

Thanks. Your chair looks great with those fat tyres. Is this right: with the standard tyre on and a 20" seat the chair would be about 24.5" wide? (assuming arms are not wider than the wheels) With the fat tyres, 20" seat it is approx 27.5"?

[Burgerman]

To within a total of about 5 to 6 mm yes. You cant be more accurate as things flex and move! And WHAT you order initially changes things.


Its also harder to say because it is narrower with the tyres shown here https://www.wheelfreedom.com/products/s ... owerchair/ its 23.5

With a set of the SAME SIZED nobbly tyres its 24.5. Why? Becauset tyre sizing is "nominal". Means they vary!
With the tyres in that image IN THE LINK, it uses 8mm spacers on the inside of the wheels.
With the other tyres here:

It uses 12mm spacers or the tyres hit the 4 pole motors. But dont hit the 2 pole ones...

So some 3.00 tyres are less, some are more than 3 inches wide.

So motor type, and the type of grey tyre you order both change width. From 23.5 to 24.5...

Width 23.5 - 24.5 in (60 - 62 cm)
Length 45 in (114 cm)
Weight 17.8 - 26 st (113 - 165 kg)
Drive Rear-wheel
Seat width Adj. 16 - 20 in (41 - 51 cm)
Seat depth Adj. 16 - 20 in (41 - 51 cm)
Seat height 14.5 - 18 in (37 - 46 cm)
Weight capacity 22 st (140 kg)
Suspension Drive-wheel independent
Speed 4 or 6 mph (6 or 10 kmph) And 2 or 4 pole.
Range 18 miles (30 km) (55Ah batt! but you can fit 80Ah...As I have.)
Transit approved Yes

[salixfire]

Thank you The narrowest door I need to go through is 63cm (approx 24.8"). Yes accounting for flex is always a bit iffy until you physically have the product. How difficult is it to change the wheels (once you have installed the fatter tyres)? Is it as simple as remove previous wheels + adaptor and put old wheels back on? The indoor/outdoor capabilities of the fat tyres would be wanted for the most part, it's just when indoors at my parents I would need the narrower chair (visiting them a few times a year).

[Burgerman]

Yes. Wheel off means 4x M8 short cap screws.
Adapter off means 4x M8 countersunk cap screws...

Which leaves you with a motor and original wheel mount.

Skinny wheel and oem spacer, plus the original 4 cap screws... And youare back to ugly skinny grey tubed tyres!

[salixfire]

Ah that's not too bad then. Cool, thank you

[Burgerman]

Main reasons for the tyres are in order of importance to me:

Tubeless!
Wider looks cool...
Black looks cool. Grey looks institutionalised.
Adds to lateral stability, and with a seat at full height and full tilt helps, its scary high up!
Nicer ride as doubling the x sectiuon means half the pressure needed.
Doesent sink and get stuck on grass etc so easily which is pretty important when a chair weighs 190kg! Stock grey tyres are actually overloaded, esp as I moved the seat back.
Last much, much longer and 70mph tough road going construction.

So I wont be putting the skinny grey tubed efforts back on anythime soon.

[salixfire]

The only reason to put the skinny tyres back on for me is that one doorway to the bathroom in my parents house. Otherwise the fatter tyres would be on the chair constantly. Why is it that bathroom doors are always a few cm narrower than any other door in the house? (rhetorical) It's a pain, but the ability to use the bathroom tops the cool factor, and I'll get the wheels changed back when going out and about.

[Burgerman]

Yea but too much work. Take a hammer to the bathroom. Apply for a grant to modify it. I widened every door in the house, and did ramps, driveway, wet room, ripped out internal walls, etc all in a massive job 2 years after my accident. To make narrow corridors wide or gone! Bathroom and seperate loo, all one huge room, other rooms double the size and extended into the garden. While at it, made 2 bedrooms bigger, and made the kitchen, dining room, laundry room etc, all one big open space.

Ramps are all invisible as the driveway/garden was all angled for entry/exit. Its actually better for everyone. Open, plenty of room for driving about at full speed, and doors that swing both ways inside. Yes its not cheap to be disabled but you gota get organised sooner rather than later!

[Burgerman]

To put that another way, stock tyres are 76mm (3 inches) wide.
The fat tyres are 120mm wide and actually measure 118.
So each is 42mm wider. However theres 8mm wasted between stock tyre and motor. So when you fit the wider tyre you take 6mm of this leaving just 2mm clearance. So the 42mm wider tyre will only add 42 -6mm = 36mm per side.

Stock width is 620mm in the specs.
So we are adding 36, and 36mm...
Makes total width 692mm or 27.3 inches. (my 27.5 guestimate!)

Thats a fracton narrower than an X5 or V6 powerchair. Those measure almost 28 inches according to my tape measure.

Are you planning a set of rims, tyres? If so my work here apears to be working!

[salixfire]

Hehe, actually I'm working on getting the whole powerchair + wheels etc.

Unfortunately my parents house is in Portugal, and the door to the bathroom can't be widened due to really stupid original layout (tiny Portuguese rooms, + a previous idiot who remodeled) and for the effort/cost to change their property, for that one door isn't really worth it for a few visits a year. Changing the wheels will be fine.

[Burgerman]

Yes it can! Its all just mind over matter. then

What you really mean is that you are a "normal" in society like most people. You need to get un-normal, rapidly! You must recalibrate!

I.e. you worry about stuff. For e.g, damage to tiles, or door frames... Just do it! Worry about the technicalities later! The result is that you win.

Every time I see or read such stuff it baffles me. I am 57. In 5 or 6 years I will be the same age as my parents. Both are underground. What can I say. Just DO IT!

[greybeard]

In 5 or 6 years I will be the same age as my parents. Both are underground. What can I say. Just DO IT!

Well said, John. I have the greatest respect for those who display that sentiment.


Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Dylan Thomas

[Burgerman]

I hear the same sort of things from my carers. Brand new chair arrives recently here, with a 2 year warranty. I took a hacksaw to it same day before even sitting in it, to reposition the joystick, and again to reposition the footrest actuator, and a drill to reposition the seat, drilling into a 1750 uk pounds tilt/lift unit. Or drilling holes for the anderson connector and adding my wiring. Do I care? Nope. Others worry about such technicalities. I would rather have a better chair that works than a warranty on one that doesnt. In life you sometimes just need to do it!

I bought a new Suzuki 1100 gsxr wp, some 22 years back. Rode it home, fitted an extra 70bhp of nitrous injection, and took it to the drag strip 60 miles away same day. It ran a 9.2 second quarter mile at well over 155mph, before it even had 100 miles on the clock. It did 178mph on the M18 motorway flat out on the way there and back (without nitrous used) for mile after mile. No cameras then! When I took it for its first service (the free 500 mile one) it was on its third 180/55-17 rear tyre, the brake discs were blue and scored, and the tyres inc the front were all chewed up at the edges and looked like it had been on a race track. And the nitrous bottle was still bolted to the rear. Oh how they laughed! And wanted a go. That bike made 200bhp DIN corrected at the wheel on my dynamometer, with stock everything and a bottle of laughing gas. Warranty? Who cares.

I wont mention also ripping the 4 cylinder motor/gearbox/axle etc out of my 1 year old car and replacing it with a blueprinted V8 and nitrous injection from a different manufacturer! It wasnt under warranty but still smelled like a new car. Theres no use dreaming of doing these things. You just got to go for it.

As you probably gathered I am not big on worrying about technicalities and tend to just do stuff as I see fit. Neatly and professionally if possible. The result so far has always outweighed any losses.

When I say no cameras, I mean not many... Hence:

[greybeard]

Tinkering with stuff is simply the best way to learn.

Before the age of three I had managed to unscrew all the door hinges on the kitchen cupboards I could reach, dismantled mother's mangle and stuffed the bits down a drain in the back yard. Never had a watch, camera or radio etc as a kid that didn't get taken apart. Never managed to get one back together and working though, but I'm now a fully paid up bodger of all things.

I'm told my shed is a disgraceful disorganised mess, but to me it's a treasure trove of bits and pieces that might one day be just what is needed to fix something. Many such gems have saved me money over the years. Hate having to call tradesmen in for anything unless I've really screwed up with the self help. It hasn't happened often I'm pleased to say. Things might not look pretty, but they work.

[Burgerman]

I agree. Anyone with kids needs to give them anything they can that they can get apart from an early age. Give them a workshop with tools and help them fix or make stuff. Old petrol mowers to take apart, buy them tools, model train transformers, and buy the sort of toys that are real, mechanical and not things with screens. They must have an old small motorcycle, model airplanes, etc.

That was my childhood. I seriously can fix, build, make, improve and turn my hand to anything. Even today if I spot anything that I do not understand how it works I just have to know. I buy and dismantle. When I was 17 I couldnt figure out how stripey toothpast came out stripey. I had to go buy one and cut it open at about 2am from an all night fuel station.

Before my accident I was building race engines, with home designed turbo/fuel injection, and nitrous oxide systems, with huge power levels and building and selling these skills along with my own brand dynamometers. The things I learned as a kid earned my money, and allows me to understand the world. Schools and education doesent do that.

[Burgerman]

Right, getting up for a few hours today. So a quick pic or two. This is with everything done except
- rear wheels and tyres.
-Jay3 seat back.
Those are still to be done. As soon as the parts come.

[Burgerman]

And now my lazer cut wheel adapter parts are here. 3 days! And now to mark/drill...

On the left.
1.5mm disk, 8mm ring, 2x 8mm rings to stack and total 16mm as one big ring.

On the middle, these are two steel spacers that are fitted as stock. They are really heavy and steek, and will not be used.

On the right, is the same as the left! Except stacked up, as they will be fitted and bolted together.

Remember this:

To fit those rims to a salsa, you need:

Spacer ring:
Inside diameter 41.5
Outside diameter 110.0
Thickness 16mm (used 2x 8mm instead per side)
Bolts inner ring 60 pcd x4 drilled 9MM and countersunk for taper flush cap head bolts.
Bolts outer ring 90.5 x 4 tapped M8 to fit rim.


Cover plate 2 parts.
1x ring, 74.5mm x 41.5 x 8mm thick.
1x cover, 74.5mm diameter x 1.5mm thick polished held on with 2x countersunk m4 bolts drilled through to the main adapter.

All in easy to drill aluminium from here, laser cut to size https://www.lasermaster.co.uk/easy-order

[Burgerman]

Marked the easy way. Sit one on top, and spray paint to mark holes.

4 times...

Then drill 8.5mm on all plates. Two used each side as the laser will not cut more than 8mm and I wanted 16.
So two halves will get bolted together.

[Burgerman]

Part done, hard work when all your drils, allen keys, bolts, files, are all on the floor... So not done yet.

This bolts on in place of the otiginal spacer/wheel. And it will tomorrow have another 4 holes, tapped M8 for the new wheel at 92mm PCD. Near the outer edge.

Then theres 2 more parts that wiull bolt to the centre to centralise the wheel, and to give a flush finish on the wheel centre hole. As you will see. The black bolts fit to the chair. No nuts used. The two stainless ones just hold the two halfs together.

[shirley_hkg]

That skinny grey tyres make it really looks
" handicapped " .

[Burgerman]

Yep. Same crappy 3.00 x 8 tyre in grey as most chairs use. But not for long!

[Burgerman]

Wheel adapter bolted to wheel, no cover, needs cleaning up, spraying black etc.

And it then gets a 1.5mm thick cover, that will be polished, and held on with two 4mm countersunk screws.

And then I get to start all over again andmake another one for the opposite side... The fun.

[hank]

Not long now John

[Burgerman]

Screws done (1st wheel...).
Just needs a polish and fitting. Centre cap bolts are not fully tight here.

Makes you wonder why they dont offer a properly sorted chair for control freaks. It woud sell.