Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

[Burgerman]

You mean seat dump angle, not bucket.

I DID drill a hole in the centre of the two existing holes in the front bracket. No problem. I didnt touch the rear one. And it maybe different to yours. And yes it hit the rear frame if you move the seat back. So I enlarged the lift mechanisms mounting hole into an oval. And it all just fits. But yourchair seems to have the seating mounted further forwards on top of the lift mechanism rather than the bottom. The front edge of my seat is around 2 inches Behind the caster barrel centreline.

Front lights MOVED See:

download/file.php?id=7719&mode=view
download/file.php?id=7717&mode=view

The bolts are now replaced with black, and have black plastic caps too.

[Scooterman]

Looking at both your chair and mine. Your tilt/elevate unit looks to be mounted two holes further forward than mine. I reckon if I move the unit forward by one hole, or to the same as position your's, two holes. Then I may be able to tilt the front of the unit up without the rear of the unit clashing with the rolling chassis rear cross tube. I can still move the plastic seat base back like yourself. I'll have a look tomorrow, I'm a bit more hopeful now.
I glad you re-attached your photos to your reply because I didn't think of going back and looking at them.

PS: I've uploaded a higher res picture to flickr https://flic.kr/p/25xNWne

[Burgerman]

Be careful, my frame rails are different as I have no more holes for the front bolt! Look at the position of the plastic cable cover, at the rear as those look similarly positioned. But you seat is further forwards on the top.

I like your new flat light cables!

[shirley_hkg]

Can you tell the vertical axle info of caster fork ?
Maybe I can help .

[shirley_hkg]

I assume it's better for the rim's centre hole to sit on the smaller outer plate , for load bearing , right ?

Is it advisable to machine this 3-piece adoptor in one piece ?

Centre hole being seen through , right ? down to the axle nut .

[Burgerman]

Is it advisable to machine this 3-piece adoptor in one piece ?

I did this in 3 parts (4 actually) only because I could not emake it in two parts using laser cut disks as it was easier... Main adapter can be one part. 16 mm thick. Mine is 2x 8mm disks bolted together.

But the smaller diameter part has to be seperate as it partly covers the countersunk high tensile bolts that hold the adapter on. And the wheel too covers some of the countersunk bolt heads.

And a seperate 1.5mm thick stainless steel cover plate with no holes in it, is still needed on the top! It is best held on by the load spreading washers I added later that hold the wheel on.

See:

[Burgerman]

Note the flush bolts fitted, these hold the adapter on, they are a slightly wider PCD than would fit on the smaller part. So it must be seperate. No wheel bolts drilled/tapped here yet.

The two shiny bolts simply hold my 2x 8mm plates together. You wont need those, just a 16mm disk.

[Burgerman]

Look at the 4 ring/disk parts on the left.

2X 8mm (large diameter parts, (to make a single 16mm thick part/adapter) You need 1x 16mm thick part.

And that smaller "ring" i bolted with M6 bolts to the larger disk with countersunk allen bolts.

And that thin stainless cover plate is not bolted at all now. The wheel bolts hold it securely. download/file.php?id=8015&mode=view

Note, this ONLY works for 120 tyres on a 3.5 rim.


If the plate were steel, and 6mm thick, the 2.75 wheel with the 350 tyre could be used. But thats very thin for a strong thread or counterunk bolts. That would move the wheel in by 10mm, and the tyre would be 90mm instead of 120mm. So would have an over large 11 mm gap between motor and tyre instead of 3...

[shirley_hkg]

Stainless steel & fency aluminum .

Easy to get in Taobao ...

[Burgerman]

No those are for the taper / countersunk bolts. And are too small diameter to hold centre.
Mine are thicker, and 25mm outer diameter. And are for the normal ALLEN stronger bolt. See:



Then use bolts that have smooth non threaded part where it locates and goes through the wheel. Because the threaded part is smaller diameter.




M8 x 40 I had here and used. The threaded part doesent support the wheel. The non threaded part must be 8mm to 12mm long. Not more!

[Scooterman]

I like your new flat light cables!

I know it looks like a New Zealand flat worn! Lol

[Scooterman]

You mean seat dump angle, not bucket.

You're right I do. But I thought referring to it as dump was rude

[Scooterman]

Can you tell the vertical axle info of caster fork ?
Maybe I can help .

What like have some castor forks made to accommodate 3.00 x 4 black pneumatic tyres?

[Scooterman]

Be careful, my frame rails are different as I have no more holes for the front bolt! Look at the position of the plastic cable cover, at the rear as those look similarly positioned. But you seat is further forwards on the top.

Thank you for the warning. It always pays to be reminded to proceed with caution, it's easy to get carried away without considering fully the consequences that one's actions may have. That was profound!

All I'll do at this stage is unbolt the T/E unit from the chassis rail and slide it forward. Then see if I can tilt it back like you did. I won't drill or cut anything until I've fully got my head round it. I think I should be able to physically SLIDE the unit but it's too heavy for me to lift by myself. Even the front end was heavy to lift up to enable the T/E unit to be tilted back. I levered it up using a hammer shaft between T/E unit and chunky chassis tube.

[Scooterman]

Thoughts so far...

I can proceed with trying to introduce bucket into the T/E unit, it's virtually dead horizontal at the moment.

I can wrap the back panel, but I can't wrap the wheel arches yet in case the 14" drive wheels scuff the underside of the wheelarches when going over a bump. I don't want it ruining my wrap.
NB: I've softened up the rear suspension by reducing the tension in the coil springs. I'm only a lightweight and thought this would soften up the ride for me. I did the same on by big scooter but I had to raise the rear bodywork by 1 inch because the wheels fouled the arches.

Rover220 is putting the footrest assembly, fixed angle backrest, and 8mm wheel spacers in the post today. I asked him if he had a FA backrest as I'm doing away with the recline mechanism. And from the sunrise parts catalogue it looks as if the FA backrest rigidizer bar doesn't stick out so far.

But I'm a bit stuck without the 10" forks, it's a worry

The tyres on it at the moment are horrible, they're grey solids.

The rear tyres are 12.5" x 2.25"
The front tyres are 2.8/2.5-4

But you can't get them sizes in black pneumatic, and I wanted to go slightly larger anyway, 14" rear, 10" front. But I can't do anything without the longer 10" castor forks (mine has 9"). Rover220 has any, and I can't see any on eBay. I was told these might fit https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322885348493.But I don't know and it would have been nice to be able to get a pair of genuine salsa forks. But beggars can't be choosers...

Hmm, I'll just have to get on with what I can and hope a pair of 10" forks turn up on eBay.

[Scooterman]

The castor fork problem

[shirley_hkg]

IF the plate were steel, and 6mm thick, the 2.75 wheel with the 350 tyre could be used. But thats very thin for a strong thread or counterunk bolts. That would move the wheel in by 10mm, and the tyre would be 90mm instead of 120mm. So would have an over large 11 mm gap between motor and tyre instead of 3...

It has to be thick enough . 10mm at least .

Therefore , turning the rim inside out is worthwhile .

Sadly that I don't have the hub , or I can clone one completely fitted .

[Scooterman]

PS: I can get on with sorting out the front lights. I need to make new brackets because I now realise why BM moved his lights inboard. But I plan to mount mine on top of the chunky round chassis tubes just behind front castors. The reason why is I wrap a big blanket around my legs when in the chair, and if I mount them inboard the flappy blanket will probably block the light beam and I could crash in the dark .

[Burgerman]

Turning rim inside out looks horrible...
I considered all this a while ago, and the best option was the 120 tyre/3.5 rim. The 3.50 tyre and the 110 tyre were larger diameter. You will need to space the wheel arch up with 2 tap washers (rubber) each side with 120 tyres, and more so with 110, or 3.50 tyres.

Softening the spring cannot be done by removing preload... That changes only ride height. You just lowered the rear a bit. You didnt soften it unless the spring didnt move at all. You can get softer spring/shock units. Mine are black, hard.

I can proceed with trying to introduce bucket into the T/E unit, it's virtually dead horizontal at the moment.

*Dump! Bucket refers to the curve of a seat back and high side bolsters to prevent cornering throwing you sideways.

*You can throw away the horizontal bar and mount lights where it bolted on. Its not needed.

*And you can get black 9 inch tyres, and they are 280/250 - 4. Expresso is driving about on some!
2 of each here! They may even be better as the footplate will fit more easily. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-of-4-Bla ... SwcGBaqUdY

[Scooterman]

Softening the spring cannot be done by removing preload... That changes only ride height. You just lowered the rear a bit. You didnt soften it unless the spring didnt move at all. You can get softer spring/shock units. Mine are black, hard.

Oh . My springs are yellow and I noticed they're marked up 250lb

*Dump! Bucket refers to the curve of a seat back and high side bolsters to prevent cornering throwing you sideways.

DUMP! righty-ho got it

*You can throw away the horizontal bar and mount lights where it bolted on. Its not needed.

I have plans for that in relation to the footplate, wink. All will be revealed in the great unveiling

*And you can get black 9 inch tyres, and they are 280/250 - 4. Expresso is driving about on some!
2 of each here! They may even be better as the footplate will fit more easily. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-of-4-Bla ... SwcGBaqUdY

Well I never, thanks! I've got sapphire 2 but I didn't realise the front tyres are 280/250-4. I could try putting one of the sapphire's front wheels on the Salsa, just to see if it fits like...

Alternatively I could buy a pair of these? They look like 3.00 x 4 pneumatics will fit? But as you say larger castors and forks might cause problems with the footplate.

If i went with the 9" 280/250-4 pneumatics front and 14" pneumatic rear I would really need to insert 1 inch spacers between fork and frame plus longer fork bearing bolts (look to be at least M12)

[Scooterman]

And you can get black 9 inch tyres, and they are 280/250 - 4. Expresso is driving about on some!
2 of each here! They may even be better as the footplate will fit more easily. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Set-of-4-Bla ... SwcGBaqUdY

Does it matter that they're not ribbed? I read somewhere you need ribbed on front for directional stability?

[Burgerman]

Ribbed?
I have never used a ribbed tyre in 22 years.

[Scooterman]

Ribbed?
I have never used a ribbed tyre in 22 years.

I must say ribbed aren’t very attractive. They look a bit rehab.

[Burgerman]

Also there are 3.00 x 4 and there are other 3.00 x 4 tyres. Those are nominal sizes. Meaning they are ABOUT the right size... They vary a little.

The ribbed ones are about 10.3 inches and so are the rear 3.00 x 4 on your scooter. And they will hit your footplate.

The best 3.00 tyre is the one I keep linking to as its 9.5 diameter and misses the centre footplate better and is a quality high load rating tyre by heidenau or whatever its called.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heidenau-MSC ... SwNnRYhLX9
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorradreif ... Sw68lamT4w
https://www.oponeo.co.uk/moto-tyre/heidenau-msc1
http://www.keiyama.eu/heidenau-msc1-3-0 ... m_store=fr
https://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/mo ... -35-b.html
https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/Tyres/H ... B/R-166482
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_no ... SC1+3.00-4
https://www.tirendo.co.uk/heidenau-msc1 ... 66482.html

[Burgerman]

It has to be thick enough . 10mm at least .

Therefore , turning the rim inside out is worthwhile .

Sadly that I don't have the hub , or I can clone one completely fitted .

The centrenut, will also require the rim to be spaced 16mm with 1.5mm centre cover to miss the nut...

[Scooterman]

Also there are 3.00 x 4 and there are other 3.00 x 4 tyres. Those are nominal sizes. Meaning they are ABOUT the right size... They vary a little.

The ribbed ones are about 10.3 inches and so are the rear 3.00 x 4 on your scooter. And they will hit your footplate.

The best 3.00 tyre is the one I keep linking to as its 9.5 diameter and misses the centre footplate better and is a quality high load rating tyre by heidenau or whatever its called.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Heidenau-MSC ... SwNnRYhLX9
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorradreif ... Sw68lamT4w
https://www.oponeo.co.uk/moto-tyre/heidenau-msc1
http://www.keiyama.eu/heidenau-msc1-3-0 ... m_store=fr
https://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/mo ... -35-b.html
https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/Tyres/H ... B/R-166482
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_no ... SC1+3.00-4
https://www.tirendo.co.uk/heidenau-msc1 ... 66482.html

Thank you and thank you for all the links. They're a good price too! I will buy a pair but the reason I haven't is that I don't know what valve to buy? I've never bought tubeless before and thought it's no good me buying a tubeless tyre and not knowing what valve to buy, that would be silly! Would you mind linking to a valve for me? Also does the valve have to be glued into the rim to stop the air escaping as you're pumping the tyre up?
Also if you happen to be moseying past your salsa with a pair of vernier callipers in your pocket could you measure the Heidnau's at their widest point. I think my forks might be a tad narrower than your's?

[Scooterman]

Sold to scooterman! eBay item number:142734188970 paid £38 incl del

They was a good price so I thought i'd buy them and worry about valves and forks later. The ribbed 3.00 x 4 tubed I bought from http://www.mobilitypitstop.com were horrible, I'm sending them back.

[shirley_hkg]

All valves work the same .

[shirley_hkg]

The centrenut, will also require the rim to be spaced 16mm with 1.5mm centre cover to miss the nut...

Or simply leave it alone .

[Burgerman]

But then it looks ugly. Cant do that!

never bought tubeless before and thought it's no good me buying a tubeless tyre and not knowing what valve to buy, that would be silly! Would you mind linking to a valve for me? Also does the valve have to be glued into the rim to stop the air escaping as you're pumping the tyre up?
Also if you happen to be moseying past your salsa with a pair of vernier callipers in your pocket could you measure the Heidnau's at their widest point. I think my forks might be a tad narrower than your's?

On my bed so cant.
They are not tubeless! Only the rear.