Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 04 Apr 2018, 01:59

I prefer these, the slotted ones look like the 1970 wolf race slots fitted to everything...

But both look great in the wide 3.5j width and 120/70-8 rubber. Not so sure they do in the narrower ones. Esp if turned around backwards.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 05 Apr 2018, 19:32

I wrapped one wheelarch today, but it wasn't very successful. I really really like the carbon fibre effect but my wrapping technique leaves a lot to be desired. The one wheelarch must have taken me a couple of hours :(

My first attempt with a single sheet was a disaster. The second time I did it in sections but there are a lot of wrinkles and air bubbles. But imo it looks better than the Sunrise Blue. I'm not looking forward to doing the other two panels as it is really difficult to do. :thumbdown:

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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 05 Apr 2018, 19:39

Sadly, after doing a lot of this stuff, and on bikes, for 40 years I knew that this would be the result. But nobody likes a "told you so" so I wont mention it! Even though I alreadty did when you said you were going to do this! :oops: :shh:

Postby Burgerman » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:39 pm
At a guess, all wrinkly, and not stuck well. And you will wish it was painted gloss black!


10 days ago... Dont worry. Bung a spray shop 30 quid and they will do it in a nice slightly metalic black with 2 pack laquer. :ak47

Also, those wheel spacers are available in 8, or 12mm should you need them.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 05 Apr 2018, 20:29

Burgerman wrote:Sadly, after doing a lot of this stuff, and on bikes, for 40 years I knew that this would be the result. But nobody likes a "told you so" so I wont mention it! Even though I alreadty did when you said you were going to do this! :oops: :shh:

Postby Burgerman » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:39 pm
At a guess, all wrinkly, and not stuck well. And you will wish it was painted gloss black!


10 days ago... Dont worry. Bung a spray shop 30 quid and they will do it in a nice slightly metalic black with 2 pack laquer. :ak47

Also, those wheel spacers are available in 8, or 12mm should you need them.

When you told me last week that it would end in disaster I didn't mind in the least, it made me laugh. But I was determined to prove you wrong, how wrong was I! :oops: Lol :D

Even though I must be glutton for punishment I'm going to wrap the other two panels. Afterall I've bought the wrap now! But once the chair is up and running I will seriously consider getting the panels sprayed as you suggest.

Re the spacers, Rover220 sent me a pair of 8mm ones along with the centre footplate assembly and the lower profile non-powered recline backrest rigidiser bar (if that's the correct name). I've ordered a 1 metre length of 25mm steel tube and I'm going to replace the backrest uprights and plastic bung the end of the tubes (no push handles)
Screen Shot 2018-04-05 at 20.29.09.png
Re the rear wheels. I'm need to PM shirley. In the bottom photo of my last post you can see the small 2.80/2.50-4 mob scooter black tyres. The 3.00x4 H's won't fit in my 9" forks, and I can't find a used pair. I know ICE_UK is also after a pair and he'll probably beat me to any that come up. I think wider rear wheels and tyres will look silly with my little castor tyres. But once the chair is up and running and if I find 10" forks I look at wheels again, that's if they're still available from shirley.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby foghornleghorn » 07 Apr 2018, 12:14

@Burgerman
Curious about something. Do you know what your wheelchair weighs now as it stands with all the modifications and a pair of lead batteries in?
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 07 Apr 2018, 13:12

Before wheels, it was 185kg, and now it will be about 1.5 to 2? Kg more? Bigger tyres are heavier, wheel slightly heavier. But its low down so good thing. Headrest about .5 kg lighter? And steel plate and carbon replacement on front footplate saves another .5kg.
So approx 186.5?kg.

Remember that power tilt, recline, lift, centre leg mechanisms all weighs a ton, and add FIVE more motors/actuators and associated wiring.

Once lithium added will save about 25kg. Approx the weight of 1 lead brick. So then about 142.5kg.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby foghornleghorn » 07 Apr 2018, 13:32

Thanks.

I weighed myself and my wheelchair combined while visiting a care home one day and seeing they had scales, came to 192kg. Starting at almost that while empty is getting a bit crazy! Most portable ramps to load into a vehicle are 300kg limit, and the ones to get you on a train or a bus are the same.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 07 Apr 2018, 15:13

Burgerman wrote:And steel plate and carbon replacement on front footplate saves another .5kg.
Carbon fibre footplate? Please tell me more :worship .

I'm going to make a small footplate out of aluminium. The steel one is just SOOOOO HEAVY.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 07 Apr 2018, 15:17

Btw did you have a 25mm small aluminium? collar in the tool kit bag? There's one in mine but I don't know what it's for. I should really upload photo to help explain but I is sat on de bed at the moment.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby firehopper » 07 Apr 2018, 15:18

I might try and make a test footplate out of plywood and a bit of steel square rod. I have a local place that can fabricate stuff for me rather cheaply too.. so I should be able to get what I need if I cant get it from ebay.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 07 Apr 2018, 15:19

foghornleghorn wrote:
I weighed myself and my wheelchair combined while visiting a care home one day and seeing they had scales, came to 192kg. Starting at almost that while empty is getting a bit crazy! Most portable ramps to load into a vehicle are 300kg limit, and the ones to get you on a train or a bus are the same.

My manual chair weighs 10kg and with me sat in it 60kg. How's that for lightweight, I could almost float way :D
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 07 Apr 2018, 20:34

Carbon plate?
1 sq foot of steel plate with a foam pad and fake leather vover that sits on the vertical part to take the weight of legs when elevated. Not the plate itself.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby shirley_hkg » 28 Apr 2018, 13:27

Went to collect pair of 3.5j-8 rims.
One of them has the 8 holes done far from perfect . :fencing :cussing

Did yours have a problem , John ?
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 28 Apr 2018, 14:17

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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby shirley_hkg » 29 Apr 2018, 03:29

Unlike 10'' rims with numerous sellers to be choosen , 8'' ones have only a few.
Though won't affect performance at all and rough at close look only , sorry for the imperfection still . banghead
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 29 Apr 2018, 11:01

Well I am a perfectionist, and wouldnt fit them. But most people dont care as much.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby ICEUK » 14 May 2018, 18:19

Bm, why not the storm 4, i know there was a reason but i cant remember.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Swan T.W. » 14 May 2018, 18:41

Is the SalsaR discontinued?
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby steves1977uk » 14 May 2018, 18:59

ICEUK wrote:Bm, why not the storm 4, i know there was a reason but i cant remember.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6642&start=200#p108264

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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 14 May 2018, 19:08

Because to turn an EMPTY chair left or right on a carpet in my room, too 192A from the battery! :cussing

When I am sat in it, presumably it took 125A per motor. Because it stalled, and wouldnt turn. Or rather it did once, maybe twice. Then it refused to go. Which isnt surprising!

So was unusable. Its bad by design. You cant have adequate torque without 5x too many Amps, without a gearbox. Direct drive isnt workable. Quite how theres so many bruhless chairs out there actually functioning beats me. As soon as you expect anything from them they hang up and stop!
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 14 May 2018, 19:09

Is the SalsaR discontinued?


Probably, the R2 is its replacement? They are all just grooves regardless give or take a few minor changes!

Yep! Long gone. https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... rs/salsa-r
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby shirley_hkg » 28 Jun 2018, 13:57

Hi .
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 28 Jun 2018, 15:17

Shirley drunk again... :cussing
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby shirley_hkg » 29 Jun 2018, 02:42

Someone asked about 8'' rims , and I'd rather he put it up here .
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby optical10 » 07 Jul 2018, 12:31

Burgerman wrote:Everyone will tell you that rear drive chairs are worse indoors. And thats true of every powerchair where the seat must be mounted too far forwards. So that the normal swing away footrests are able to clear the casters. They must be stuck ahead of the chair and in front of the caster wheels.

The result is a nose heavy chair that steers very badly and is too long indoors with your legs stuck out ahead. But a centre footplate cures the problem. If its small enough, it fits partly between the caster wheels. Allowing the seat and footplate(s) to sit around 3 or 4 inches further back, in a more reaward position. Which is why all my rear drive chairs use a centre footplate.

Search the web for rear drive chairs with centre footplate, its not common or easy to find! But you can push the manufacturers to fit the centre mount footplates that they normally fit to their centre wheel drive or front drive chairs. But they dont like it! Thats why you can't see a pic of a Jive/Salsa with a centre footplate and the same is true most of the other chairs out there. They think rear drive = swing away foot riggings.

However there can also be issues if you move the seat/footplate back to a more rearward position. Such as below. Note the shiny bolt sitting just behind the footplate in the exact place you do not want it! It holds the actuator on... And hits the tyre.



I was disappointed that your storm 4 Explore rise project didn't work out but then stumbled upon this thread whilst I found the salsa mini 2.
Just wondering with the centre footplate issue you don't seem to favour mid drive power chairs with their better CG and turning circle, to me as Lehman, like this one?

Quickie-Salsa-Mini-2-Belfast-electric-wheelchairs.jpg

Quickie Salsa Mini 2

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Belfast Electric wheelchairs – Quickie Salsa Mini 2 review
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 07 Jul 2018, 13:02

Because mid wheel drive is frankly rubbish in the actual real world outdoors. Theres no way they can go the places I do, or work on soft ground, or a beach etc. Because those sprung arms with too small caster wheels lift the weight off the drive wheels, and push the sticky out rear casters into the ground as you reverse on say gravel or soft ground. And theres no suspension on most of the mid wheels where you actually sit!

And all my rear drive chairs have the seating laocated rearwards, making the chair easy to steer, with little weight over the front. And so I can pop front wheels up at will, (programmed correctly!). We tried this test.

INDOORS a freind in a Q6000 mid drive pride chair, cannot go into my bathroom, turn around and come out. But my 37 (inch long INCLUDING foot riggings), BM2 chair can. Its is more compact indoors than the typical mid drive. But when outdoors goes places that the mid drives with tiny caster wheels cannot. Its also more comfortable outdoors.

Rear drive CONFIGURED CORRECTLY can be as good indoors as a mid drive.
But are far better outdoors and offer better comfort.

The reason that the opposite is the general view, is because every rear drive chair is terrible. The salsa was a typical example it, like most, came with swing away footplates. This means, like almost all rear drive chairs, that the seating must be way too far forwards, with your feet in front of the castor wheels. Instead of between them. This means that rear drive stock chairs:
a) are way too long. So cannot turn indoors, and the drive wheel is too far behind you.
b) are far too nose heavy, making any turns indoors almost impossible and the chair doesent respond correctly compounded by the typical programming of stock chairs.

So I took a typical REAR DRIVE chair, the Salsa, and fixed it.
Ordered a CENTRE footplate, as it can then allow feet to fit further back between casters.
Moved seat back 4.5 inches.
Moved seat back, further back, by 1 inch.
Reprogrammed the chair so it responds properly.
Other changes not related like wheels, tyres, etc.

Look at seat position on mine:

s810_2133.JPG


810_2122.jpg


STOCK CHAIR NOSE HEAVY
Quickie-Jive-R2.jpg


SAME BUT SEATING MOVED BACK
Quickie-Jive-R2 CORRECT SEAT POSITION.jpg


STOCK NOSE HEAVY REAR DRIVE CHAIR
SalsaR2_2-875x1000.JPG


ANOTHER
Quickie-Salsa-R2-2014-Electric-wheelchair-TILT-ONLY.jpg
Quickie-Salsa-R2-2014-Electric-wheelchair-TILT-ONLY.jpg (37.49 KiB) Viewed 16153 times


Compared to any other other rear drive chairs where all the weight is over the castor wheels...
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby optical10 » 07 Jul 2018, 16:20

I see, now i understand, it pays to get every experience poss before deciding so many thanks. Does rear also make the Lith battery conversion easier than mid drive?
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Gnomatic » 07 Jul 2018, 17:09

Burgerman wrote:Because mid wheel drive is frankly rubbish in the actual real world outdoors.


.... unless you are using a V6 like me. :thumbup:
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 07 Jul 2018, 17:57

Those are an exception to the rule. And unfortunately are a bit log and wide. Those still have the skinny caster problem which sink in sand for eg when you reverse. And they are big so too cumbersome indoors or in a van for e.g. But the V4 looks interesting! At double the cost of a normal chair... :fencing Which stopped me buying one recently!
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby optical10 » 07 Jul 2018, 21:29

Any news on the Sinopoly, only see brexit as future hiccup for taking sweet time before pricing gets screwed?

I was upto page 48/175 on the "PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info", do I need to finish it for the Headways pack knowledge or have the Sinopoly now become the prefered method of conversion to Lith?
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