Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 01 Apr 2018, 15:23

That tread is facing BOTH directions...
So turning it has no effect.

Its like putting a nut on a thread. Works fine either way.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 01 Apr 2018, 15:27

Burgerman wrote:So 135?
Screen Shot 2018-04-01 at 15.24.13.png
Dunno, I measured 238mm but wadda I know czy
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 01 Apr 2018, 15:30

Its enough for me. The battery is 121 tall. The connections? 8 to 10mm extra at most?

It will go! :thumbup:

https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-3 ... 100Ah.html
Not in stock till june. So will swap them in june... Provisional order in! EIGHT of these...

7 of these https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-terminals/

Then I have 10 years of battery, and at least double the range, and a little extra speed and torque. And fast charging.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 01 Apr 2018, 15:36

Burgerman wrote:Softening the spring cannot be done by removing preload... That changes only ride height. You just lowered the rear a bit. You didnt soften it unless the spring didnt move at all. You can get softer spring/shock units. Mine are black, hard.

Just been reading up on preload, sag, and ride height. So opinion re what amount of preload is about right?

I was thinking with user sat in chair, slackening off collar until all tension removed from spring, then tightening up collar by 25% of spring length?

That was for MTB though, not a lot of info on PC suspension. Although a permobil service manual mentions preload setting relative to user weight.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 01 Apr 2018, 15:37

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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 01 Apr 2018, 15:43

Burgerman wrote:Its enough for me. The battery is 121 tall. The connections? 8 to 10mm extra at most?

It will go! :thumbup:

https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-3 ... 100Ah.html
Not in stock till june. So will swap them in june... Provisional order in! EIGHT of these...

7 of these https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-terminals/

Then I have 10 years of battery, and at least double the range, and a little extra speed and torque. And fast charging.

That's only x2 rather than x3 cost of GEL...Mmmm, might be good for big scooter?
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 01 Apr 2018, 15:47

Burgerman wrote:Its enough for me. The battery is 121 tall. The connections? 8 to 10mm extra at most?

It will go! :thumbup:


Don't mean to be picky but you mean 221. But as you say with connections gives 231 at most, so easy miss cross tube.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 01 Apr 2018, 15:54

When you consider that it DOUBLES the range, its the SAME price per mile NOW.

And when you consider that you will get 2 to 5 thousand cycles, instead of a few hundred its about 10x cheaper TODAY.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby expresso » 01 Apr 2018, 16:13

Burgerman wrote:Its enough for me. The battery is 121 tall. The connections? 8 to 10mm extra at most?

It will go! :thumbup:

https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-3 ... 100Ah.html
Not in stock till june. So will swap them in june... Provisional order in! EIGHT of these...

7 of these https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-terminals/

Then I have 10 years of battery, and at least double the range, and a little extra speed and torque. And fast charging.


excellent - i am looking at doing this also to my lead - ADD ON - Chair maybe this winter - correct me but the connector you linked too is for the 400ah model Cell - not for the 100ah model - - i also found an ebay seller who can cut steel plate to any size - i would need Two steel plates 10 x 6 inches each - for each battery

1/2 inch or what ever MM that is - to be safe - i think 12MM is about 1/2 inch - or i try 8MM to give me more room to try first -and if i can add two of them - i will if not - just one 8mm plate under each battery - these cells will make the whole build alot easier and faster


would you charge each cell full first - or connect them all as they recommend - a huge 3.2V cell - charge fully - then make the pack ? or just each cell full and then build - ?
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 01 Apr 2018, 16:16

Charge each to 3.600V first.
Then connect and fit...

Yes the connector is the wrong one. Thers a 100Ah cell version too. You need 7. And duct tape the cells together.

Not sure how it works out with seperated batts in your chair for size though. You get 284 x 122?

If you turn 2 cells in each 12V battery 90 degrees you get 266 long x 145 wide...
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby expresso » 01 Apr 2018, 16:57

Burgerman wrote:Charge each to 3.600V first.
Then connect and fit...

Yes the connector is the wrong one. Thers a 100Ah cell version too. You need 7. And duct tape the cells together.

Not sure how it works out with seperated batts in your chair for size though. You get 284 x 122?

If you turn 2 cells in each 12V battery 90 degrees you get 266 long x 145 wide...



it will work out as long as 4 cells are the same size of group 24 MK - thats all that matters - i will have to make a Cable with SB50 in place of one connector between the packs - and i will have to use 4s balance cables - two of them - one for each pack 4 Cells - do you know any 4s balance cables i can use ?

Sort of how they come from the factory - but one big 24v pack but split in two -
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby expresso » 01 Apr 2018, 17:13

https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-3 ... 2-Red.html

would these be a good idea to use ?

would you be using the locktite and remove the lockwasher that come with the connector as we do on the headways ?
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 01 Apr 2018, 18:02

Maybe?
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 01 Apr 2018, 18:05

it will work out as long as 4 cells are the same size of group 24 MK - thats all that matters -


Thats the point. They are not!

If the batteries are as a pair, sideways, as most chairs, you get 260 wide x 340 deep, and 230 to 240 tall.

4 of these is 61.5 x 4 = 266 wide. And 140 deep...

Works great if you turn them around, and use 8...
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 01 Apr 2018, 18:25

Burgerman wrote:When you consider that it DOUBLES the range, its the SAME price per mile NOW.

And when you consider that you will get 2 to 5 thousand cycles, instead of a few hundred its about 10x cheaper TODAY.

https://www.mobilitypitstop.com/product/12v-97ah-mk-gel-mobility-scooter-powerchair-battery/
Two of these is equivalent to $800

Eight of these is $1000 plus connectors, shipping, VAT.

But will be no import tax as in EU.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby expresso » 01 Apr 2018, 18:34

Burgerman wrote:
it will work out as long as 4 cells are the same size of group 24 MK - thats all that matters -


Thats the point. They are not!

If the batteries are as a pair, sideways, as most chairs, you get 260 wide x 340 deep, and 230 to 240 tall.

4 of these is 61.5 x 4 = 266 wide. And 140 deep...

Works great if you turn them around, and use 8...



This Chair i am looking to do - both batteries are not a Pair side by side etc, - - thats the reason i need to split them - it holds MK 24s fine - But - one battery is Straight - and the rear battery is sideways -

4 of those Cells fit the same size of a MK 24 Battery - thats all i need to worry about - 4 Cells taped together would sit in my chair straight - and 4 Cells sideways - behind the Straight one - this is why i have to Connect them with a Cable between the packs of 4 Cells - instead of a connector - and have to use 4s balance wires

like this one -

http://www.usastore.revolectrix.com/Pro ... sion-Cable

one of them for one 4 Cell pack - and another for the other 4 Cell pack - Each of my batteries have its own Bag also to sit them in - which makes it easy to grab and lift out of the chair - - they dont slide out the back - top of chair needs to be removed off the base - Quickie P222 se - is the model i want to do this with

this way its a modular pack - it wont - Cant fit all together - on my 646se chair which i did the 105ah headways - that would be perfect - One large 24V pack and slide it right in - and i can still use my 36ah ADD ON when i am done the same way i use it now but no lead inside - would be 136ah total
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 01 Apr 2018, 19:06

Burgerman wrote:You cant even do that with a pillar drill. You will need to find some tube with a 6mm bore, and 13 to 15 outer diameter. Then drill by hand/vice to 6.75 and then hand tap to M8.

Bit small, but https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192482417231 ... 2482417231

What about this 900mm length https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253136715957?var=552222519588
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 02 Apr 2018, 02:21

Wall too thin. Snap at end of thread... And nuts bigger than tube. And its steel, so will rust, be heavy, hard to drill and tap, etc.

You need 13 to 15 where 15 better... OD. And 6.7 or less ID. Alloy...
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby shirley_hkg » 04 Apr 2018, 01:36

Hey guys , please let me know which wheel pattern you'll pick .

Will begin shopping soon .


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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby shirley_hkg » 04 Apr 2018, 01:59

Cost for 1 pair of rims (2 X @£13.6) plus postage to UK / Europe . . . . total £63.00
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 04 Apr 2018, 01:59

I prefer these, the slotted ones look like the 1970 wolf race slots fitted to everything...

But both look great in the wide 3.5j width and 120/70-8 rubber. Not so sure they do in the narrower ones. Esp if turned around backwards.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 05 Apr 2018, 19:32

I wrapped one wheelarch today, but it wasn't very successful. I really really like the carbon fibre effect but my wrapping technique leaves a lot to be desired. The one wheelarch must have taken me a couple of hours :(

My first attempt with a single sheet was a disaster. The second time I did it in sections but there are a lot of wrinkles and air bubbles. But imo it looks better than the Sunrise Blue. I'm not looking forward to doing the other two panels as it is really difficult to do. :thumbdown:

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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 05 Apr 2018, 19:39

Sadly, after doing a lot of this stuff, and on bikes, for 40 years I knew that this would be the result. But nobody likes a "told you so" so I wont mention it! Even though I alreadty did when you said you were going to do this! :oops: :shh:

Postby Burgerman » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:39 pm
At a guess, all wrinkly, and not stuck well. And you will wish it was painted gloss black!


10 days ago... Dont worry. Bung a spray shop 30 quid and they will do it in a nice slightly metalic black with 2 pack laquer. :ak47

Also, those wheel spacers are available in 8, or 12mm should you need them.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 05 Apr 2018, 20:29

Burgerman wrote:Sadly, after doing a lot of this stuff, and on bikes, for 40 years I knew that this would be the result. But nobody likes a "told you so" so I wont mention it! Even though I alreadty did when you said you were going to do this! :oops: :shh:

Postby Burgerman » Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:39 pm
At a guess, all wrinkly, and not stuck well. And you will wish it was painted gloss black!


10 days ago... Dont worry. Bung a spray shop 30 quid and they will do it in a nice slightly metalic black with 2 pack laquer. :ak47

Also, those wheel spacers are available in 8, or 12mm should you need them.

When you told me last week that it would end in disaster I didn't mind in the least, it made me laugh. But I was determined to prove you wrong, how wrong was I! :oops: Lol :D

Even though I must be glutton for punishment I'm going to wrap the other two panels. Afterall I've bought the wrap now! But once the chair is up and running I will seriously consider getting the panels sprayed as you suggest.

Re the spacers, Rover220 sent me a pair of 8mm ones along with the centre footplate assembly and the lower profile non-powered recline backrest rigidiser bar (if that's the correct name). I've ordered a 1 metre length of 25mm steel tube and I'm going to replace the backrest uprights and plastic bung the end of the tubes (no push handles)
Screen Shot 2018-04-05 at 20.29.09.png
Re the rear wheels. I'm need to PM shirley. In the bottom photo of my last post you can see the small 2.80/2.50-4 mob scooter black tyres. The 3.00x4 H's won't fit in my 9" forks, and I can't find a used pair. I know ICE_UK is also after a pair and he'll probably beat me to any that come up. I think wider rear wheels and tyres will look silly with my little castor tyres. But once the chair is up and running and if I find 10" forks I look at wheels again, that's if they're still available from shirley.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby foghornleghorn » 07 Apr 2018, 12:14

@Burgerman
Curious about something. Do you know what your wheelchair weighs now as it stands with all the modifications and a pair of lead batteries in?
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 07 Apr 2018, 13:12

Before wheels, it was 185kg, and now it will be about 1.5 to 2? Kg more? Bigger tyres are heavier, wheel slightly heavier. But its low down so good thing. Headrest about .5 kg lighter? And steel plate and carbon replacement on front footplate saves another .5kg.
So approx 186.5?kg.

Remember that power tilt, recline, lift, centre leg mechanisms all weighs a ton, and add FIVE more motors/actuators and associated wiring.

Once lithium added will save about 25kg. Approx the weight of 1 lead brick. So then about 142.5kg.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby foghornleghorn » 07 Apr 2018, 13:32

Thanks.

I weighed myself and my wheelchair combined while visiting a care home one day and seeing they had scales, came to 192kg. Starting at almost that while empty is getting a bit crazy! Most portable ramps to load into a vehicle are 300kg limit, and the ones to get you on a train or a bus are the same.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 07 Apr 2018, 15:13

Burgerman wrote:And steel plate and carbon replacement on front footplate saves another .5kg.
Carbon fibre footplate? Please tell me more :worship .

I'm going to make a small footplate out of aluminium. The steel one is just SOOOOO HEAVY.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Scooterman » 07 Apr 2018, 15:17

Btw did you have a 25mm small aluminium? collar in the tool kit bag? There's one in mine but I don't know what it's for. I should really upload photo to help explain but I is sat on de bed at the moment.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby firehopper » 07 Apr 2018, 15:18

I might try and make a test footplate out of plywood and a bit of steel square rod. I have a local place that can fabricate stuff for me rather cheaply too.. so I should be able to get what I need if I cant get it from ebay.
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