Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 02 Aug 2018, 01:32

SUMMARY
This is currently the best rear wheel chair currently available on the UK market, SUBJECT TO A FEW SIMPLE MODIFICATIONS, having looked at and tested most. With the possible exception of the V4 magic mobility at stupid money.
With the following ESSENTIAL small changes, to make it work. Without these its hopeless like all stock rear drive chairs are. If you want a current rear drive powerchair that works in the UK, you need to do the following:

ESSENTIAL MODIFICATIONS
1. Seat moved back (without this you can forget about ever steering properly or use indoors, or soft ground)

2. CENTRE footrest was ordered, from the mid drive chair and actuator modified a little to stop a tyre hitting it on the left side as it was designed by an idiot. So that the essential relocation of the seat could happen. I.e. moved back, along with the footplate without caster collisions that swing away foot rigging cause. Those are a definite no!

3. Seat angle adjusted (new holes drilled in front mounting).

4. Black paint - custom order. Not essential...

5. 120A controller for adequate torque, with ESSENTIAL OEM level, severe re programming, so it will actually go through a doorway.

6. Cut push handles short as they are a rediculous length that hit everything indoors as you turn or manoever.

7. Joystick swing away mount is both dismally flimsy, wobbly and in the wrong place if you ever want control. So is modified to put it on the inboard side of the arm, re-drilled ACCURATELY with longer bars, so it misses the arm, and does not wobble... And raised by 3 inches to make it possible to steer and control properly once programmed to respond.

8. Headrest stock abysmal mounting scaffolding affair binned, it was rediculous, and new headrest mount made. Now it doesent look so bad, and does not demolish your home as you manoever about indoors.

9. New rims, and tubeless tyres fitted, making it 27.4 wide. Mostly because these are strong, and tubeless. And because the chair is seriously heavy and stock tyres are sevrely overloaded.

10. New black caster tyres... Not essential!

11. Front lights relocated inboard so the dont hit everything in sight and get smashed against my bed when transfering.

12. Backrest actuator/backrest modded slightly to allow greater recline angle.

13. Single post arms selected and moved forward - not the swing upward wobbly ones... And wide P shaped tops.

14. Seat set to 20 inches wide.

15. 4 pole 6mph motors, 2 pole or 8mph have inadequate torque.

16. Many small details, that theres no room for such as modifiing the footrest actuator mountings, and replacing the pad with a thinned carbon sheet to allow correct positioning, etc etc.


PICS, SEATING DOWN
Attachments
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810_2329.JPG
810_2328-2560.jpg
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 02 Aug 2018, 01:34

SEATING

Raised and tilt.

810_2349.JPG


810_2348.JPG


Lift only

810_2350.JPG


Tilt only

810_2343.JPG


Tilt and footplate

810_2344.JPG


Recline, tilt, footrests.

810_2345.JPG


Recline, tilt, lift, footrest.

810_2346.JPG


Recline, tilt, lift, footrest. Again from front.

810_2347.JPG
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby shirley_hkg » 02 Aug 2018, 01:51

Fency , ahha . cheers

Now look at a 210Ah mushroom cloud generator inside .
drunk2 drunk2
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 02 Aug 2018, 01:59

BITS THAT MATTER!

Tubeless rims and 120/70 - 8 tubeless tyres.

810_2338.JPG


810_2335.JPG


Removed the 30mm thick pad that stops my legs and feet sitting correctly on the footplate. Who designs this stuff? Replaced with a bit of carbon fibre, saving about 4lb of steel plate and padding/fake leather.

810_2351.JPG


Moved light inboard as they stupidly stick out to hit the bed as you transfer and everything you get close to. Again, why do they do this?

810_2337.JPG


And heres how close the caster gets. Seat lowered, no tilt, footrest moved back.

810_2354.JPG


Headrest scaffold thrown away, and replaced with simple alloy bard and two bits of angle iron. All sprayed black with a can... Actual headrest is crap, so making a better one. Still small. Before all this was thrown away there was literally 12 inches of extra metal sticking out of the rear to hit everything in my workshop, and to wreck the house. What do they think about when making all this stuff? I also cut off the stupidly long 10 inch long push handles, and used 2 small rubber caps. Allows shopping bags to hang!

810_2353.JPG


And... rear lights are actually pretty bright. Can barely be seen in the daylight sun.

810_2358.JPG


Joystick correctly located more inboard, and 3 inches higher to allow proper hand technique for the zero delay programming that allows proper accurate control. This was essential.

810_2339.JPG
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 02 Aug 2018, 02:01

Now look at a 210Ah mushroom cloud generator inside . drunk2 drunk2


Thats next, 210Ah lithium, so about 60 or 70 miles real world range. And a bolt for tie down...
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby hank » 02 Aug 2018, 08:48

Nice to see you up and about. :thumbup:
Looking well
Only fault i think John are the poor swing away joystick holder mounts
Could you bolt together through armrest post/holder. I did on my Groove build.
Old quickie f55 pilot plus are a much better stronger setup :thumbup:
f55s bm1 clone.
quickie groove Brushless
BM3 clone
Foldawheel PW 1000 XL.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 02 Aug 2018, 10:12

Mines not so poor. I bought a used one, stripped it, and redrilled all the holes to suit a very slightly larger bolt that is now a tight friction fit. Theres zero slack or movement in it. And the "arms" or bars, are longer so that it swings past the wider jay arm tops. So its now pretty good. But a lot of effort.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby hank » 02 Aug 2018, 13:05

Modified yet again. czy :clap: :thumbup:
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 03 Aug 2018, 16:40

Its because I use the things, and anything that iusnt functioning as well as it should, could, I have to fix. The alternative is to be sat in a chair like around a million others with a limp wobbly joystick, that is sat too far to the right, at arms length and way too low. Where you can barely reach it and here it ensures it hits stuff. Because almost all of them are!

This means nobody is properly ably to use the joystick with any accuracy. Hence the typical soft, delayed pudding stirrer programming they NEED to use. That destroys your house and turns what can be a sharp knife into a hovercraft thats been smoking weed... :joint

What amazes me is that ANYONE can manage with a stock chair AT ALL. Or that they they dont even see the issues. Its just liuke getting into your new car and finding the steering wheel and throttle 2 feet to the right. And connected by stretchy rubber bands. And then trying to "get used to it" which you hear all the time.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 03 Aug 2018, 16:55

Talking of which I used to use one to get to france and back with my car when I was 18.

This, long gone now. Stupidly fast out at sea, while you had a quick beer or so.


youtu.be/Jge5TGc_5E0
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Swan T.W. » 04 Aug 2018, 16:46

Chair looks long.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 04 Aug 2018, 18:05

Not measured it but with seat moved back, and centre fooplate its about 5 inches shorter than stock. But definitely longer than my own chairs. And 1.75 inches wider. But if you want tilt, recline, lift etc you do need some stability. Esp if you are no lightweight!
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Puma » 08 Aug 2018, 19:12

Nice looking chair, I have a 8mph groove which I want to adapt for beach use, how do you think those rims/tyres will handle the sand?
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 08 Aug 2018, 19:28

No. But sand is funny stuff. I walked my dog hundreds of times along 3 or 4 miles of cleethorpes beach here. https://www.google.com/search?q=cleetho ... 25#imgrc=_

Never a problem. PROVIDED i avoid dry sand and high summer! And stay around the waterline. If not then no matter what tyres you have you WILL sink and get stuck. What helps is a rear weight biased chair with lightly loaded casters. And FAT low pressure rear tyres.

Heres a pic of Nandol showing what I mean in thailand... He was adventurous, and may no longer be with us. But wont be forgotten! He build a BM2 clone or rather his freind a blacksmith did, with the same 6 inch wide turf tyres on the rear.

Image

Wet sand, no problem. Damp sand along my beach here, or even dry looking sand still no problem. But properly dry sand that flows isnt safe... But in some areas they have that stuff they fill egg timers with and you wont get 6 inches. I may add that power, forward speed, the ability to lift or wheelie the casters out of soft areas all helps. But at the end of the day you cant make a powerchair that wrks in a house or van that really is sand freindly.

I might add that my own chairs are ONE HUNDRED pounds or so lighter than the Salsa, that wont work on sand whatever tyres you fit!

These are the tyres you need if really planning on trying sand reliably.

Image
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Puma » 09 Aug 2018, 09:39

Thanks for the reply, Sad news about Nandol I remember his posts from Portugal, I may contact Shirley about those rims/tyres for my Puma..
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 09 Aug 2018, 12:31

He cant do the tyres I think. You will need a local tyre dealer. 120/70-8 tubeless Duro on the salsa...
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Puma » 12 Aug 2018, 10:32

So those tyres make it 1.75” wider than stock? Can you get in other peoples houses with that width??
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 12 Aug 2018, 10:58

Depends on the other peoples houses! Gets in mine, my van, my pub, and everywhere else I NEED to go. But it is a long, wide chair compared to my bm2 or bm3 chairs. Primarily for dealing with stupid pressure sore issues rather than permenant use due to its weight more than anything. Its double the weight of my usual chairs at a rediculous 185kg.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Puma » 12 Aug 2018, 11:08

Have you ever tried the 5” starlock cushion where you can isolate cells off? I know it makes it more difficult to transfer but I use hoist
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 12 Aug 2018, 11:14

No but its too tall for me. Upsets my chairs CG.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Puma » 12 Aug 2018, 19:29

But the 5” is so you sit more submerged in it to spread the pressure so you still only sit as high as a 2,3,4” cushion because you are only 1” off the base! It worked for me but everyone is different!!
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 12 Aug 2018, 20:35

True, I suppose. But still transfers...
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 28 Apr 2019, 10:59

For optical10 who was asking several times.
I have made up my mind. I will be fitting 16 of the 105Ah cells recently tested by Shirley_hkg over on a different thread. They will fit, and give me 210Ah of tested and measured capacity. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=4770#p137156

So thats around 40Ah usable from its group 24s lead batts in the salsa or less, meaning that gives a range increase of (200Ah div by 40Ah =) 500% or 5x. With 10Ah or 3 to 4 miles still in reserve. Probably a good bit more in reality since we also save around 45lb in weight too.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby steves1977uk » 28 Apr 2019, 11:32

Think you might be interested in these BM...

Hi Steve,

Your battery box is larger enough to hold 8 cells of :

3.2v 140ah: 46x200x168mm, USD81/pcs, 8pcs, 368x200x168mm, sub total USD648
3.2v 130ah: 40x200x168mm, USD75/pcs, 8pcs, 320x200x168mm, sub total USD600
3.2v 120ah: 40x200x168mm, USD69/pcs, 8pcs, 320x200x168mm, sub total USD552

Our Battery cell's discharging rate: 2C


They are from RJ Energy excluding shipping costs. My battery box measures...

Height: 215mm
Width: 240mm
Depth: 370mm

So I could fit 140Ah cells although it would be a very tight fit.

Steve
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby Burgerman » 28 Apr 2019, 11:40

I dont see how those fit? :argument

And 16 of the 105Ah ones means 210Ah total? And they do fit!
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby inglegrump » 08 May 2019, 17:49

If in future manufactures attempt to go lithium, the days of lift and recline will have to go. Without the ballast of some hefty batteries just above the floor the C of G will move so high that unless they bolt a lump of pig iron (as per a cruise ship !) under the seat you'll plummet either backwards or sideways. :(

The best controller mounting I've seen is the one used on my Puma. It's geared to keep the joystick module always pointing forward, with ratchet stops for sideways positioning and the joystick module will go back from touching the armrest on the inside to touching it on the outside. It's narrower than the joystick module. It's mounted on a 10mm A/F hex 40 mm long spacer at both ends which means you can get the joystick exactly the height you want it and lock it with the set screws each end. Solid so no wobble. Brilliant piece of kit.
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Re: Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

Postby expresso » 08 May 2019, 19:08

If and when they will ever go full lithium on chairs - it be fine - just means they will have to make the base of the chair - the area under the battery space - heavier - thicker metal etc, the offset the weight of the lead - so if they added 30lbs - it be fine - but they wont do it anyway - i dont see any company even thinking of going lithium anytime soon - other than bounder as we know been doing it for many years - those chairs are very heavy to begin with so no worries there - talking about swingaways - the best ones i found to be are from Sunrise medical - they have changed them some now - i havnt used a new one - but till recently they are simple strong and work -

now i also found the bounder to have a rugged strong swingaway also which is very simple in design and works - invacare on the other hand is from another planet - who ever came up with that swingaway should be taken and dropped off in another country - its a joke - dosnt work - never did - and they just keep using it after years and years of being told i am sure by many that they dont work - its an ugly joystick also compared to Rnet - Rnet by far is the best setup to have -
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