Puma 40 Tilt problem

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Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby greybeard » 21 Dec 2017, 15:38

After working perfectly for several years, suddenly the tilt stops with a beep after moving only a few inches. Nothing has been changed in the programming.

There is a microswitch on a rail on the starboard side that looks as though it is designed to prevent over-extending the tilt, but now it stops well short of this switch. Strangely, I just discovered that the seat tilts all the way back if I'm not sitting in the chair. The fault only shows itself when I'm in it. I have manipulated the microswitch in case it had stuck and oiled the rails and joints of the tilt mechanism without success.

Anyone have any ideas what's gone wrong, and suggestions for a fix, please.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby greybeard » 21 Dec 2017, 16:59

Turns out that if I recline the backrest the tilt works OK. I can live with that but if anyone has suggestions I would still appreciate them.

Thanks.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby ex-Gooserider » 27 Dec 2017, 04:33

The number one probability is a wiring issue - number one, default problem.... Look for stretches, extreme bends, any sort of pinching or other damage... Try wiggling wires to see if you can make the problem duplicate, or go away... Make sure there aren't any other hidden switches or sensors that you have missed so far...

Second possibility, especially if you use the function a lot, which it sounds like you do, is that the actuator has simply gotten 'tired' where the combined effects of wear on all the moving bits are leaving it without enough 'oomph' to do the job... Does it make 'unhappy' noises before it quits? If you get someone to give the seat a bit of help as you are trying to tilt, does it still stop?

Last possibility is a problem with the controller module - takes a bit of wiring know how, but try bypassing the controller and driving the actuator with a simple double-pole / double-throw / center-off / momentary switch - see if you have the same issue with the actuator stopping... (note that this doesn't rule out actuator problems completely)

Many times the control module has circuitry in it that limits the amount of current it will supply to an actuator, and it will shut off if it sees to much draw... This is intended to prevent damage in case of overloads or actuator failure, but can lead to false trips if the current load is marginally to high... As an actuator wears all it's moving parts, it will naturally draw a bit more current than it did when new, especially under load.... Result being that you can have the controller shutting down if either the actuator is really drawing to much power, or if the circuitry in the controller has developed a problem...

Besides the 'beep' when it shuts down, do you get any other sort of error codes? The beep sort of suggests that the controller is seeing an error, but hard to know just what it is - could be an unexpected 'open' (wiring issue) or the other stuff mentioned above...

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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby greybeard » 28 Dec 2017, 00:40

Thank you very much Goose. :thumbup: I'll use your post as a guide, but I suspect the actuator is just old and tired. Or maybe I've enjoyed just a bit more Christmas cheer than it can cope with. :)
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby greybeard » 20 Apr 2018, 14:37

Further to this saga:

Since the previous posts I haven't made any attempt to diagnose the problem because it tilted OK when the backrest was fully inclined. It has now done something I find very odd, but may indicate to the technically minded where the root of the actual problem lies.

After behaving 'normally' (incline backrest to tilt) for most of the day, the joystick tilt operation suddenly reversed itself, i.e. It now had to be pushed forward to tilt and pushed backwards to lower - completely the opposite of what it alsways has been. All other joystick operations are normal.

Does this suggest a possible answer as to why the tilt mechanism has been playing up and, other than the replies already given, where to look for a solution.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby woodygb » 20 Apr 2018, 15:44

Gremlins...
An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby greybeard » 20 Apr 2018, 15:57

Likely!

Little buggers. Know they're there but never managed to catch one.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby Burgerman » 20 Apr 2018, 18:43

My neibour has 2. Can hear them in the garden now.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby greybeard » 21 Apr 2018, 16:55

Ha ha.

I guess what I was really asking is there most likely:

1. a fault in the controller?
2. a fault in the joystick module?
3. a fault in the tilt actuator?

My hope is that you will say most likely 3. as I'm planning to replace that anyway. Much more confident fettling mechanical things than electronic ones.

TIA
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby elryko1992 » 22 Apr 2018, 08:49

I have a problem too, and i want to ask you something if you want to help me please! I need you to make a photo for me to adapter from Tilt Actuator because i buy a Puma 40 but he don't have the adapter, i will send you a photo to see, please make a photo to see the adapter, and upload somewhere to download it please! Look what i need to see link: https://pasteboard.co/HhLfwU9.jpg
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby Burgerman » 22 Apr 2018, 10:26

Adapter?

You just need a plastic or metal bush, / spacer and a nut/bolt. Find, make, machine, cut something?
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby greybeard » 22 Apr 2018, 11:43

elryko1992 wrote:I have a problem too, and i want to ask you something if you want to help me please! I need you to make a photo for me to adapter from Tilt Actuator because i buy a Puma 40 but he don't have the adapter, i will send you a photo to see, please make a photo to see the adapter, and upload somewhere to download it please! Look what i need to see link: https://pasteboard.co/HhLfwU9.jpg


This is as good as I can do without removing the whole assembly, and I can't do that. Hope they help.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby elryko1992 » 22 Apr 2018, 11:44

Burgerman wrote:Adapter?

You just need a plastic or metal bush, / spacer and a nut/bolt. Find, make, machine, cut something?


Yes a very strong metal/spacer and a big bolt 14mm, if i see one how is make i will know what to do from steel, i see in more photos is make from two piece not one, and the actuator push on that piece, and when actuator push the other piece is push up the seat.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby elryko1992 » 22 Apr 2018, 11:48

greybeard wrote:
elryko1992 wrote:I have a problem too, and i want to ask you something if you want to help me please! I need you to make a photo for me to adapter from Tilt Actuator because i buy a Puma 40 but he don't have the adapter, i will send you a photo to see, please make a photo to see the adapter, and upload somewhere to download it please! Look what i need to see link: https://pasteboard.co/HhLfwU9.jpg


This is as good as I can do without removing the whole assembly, and I can't do that. Hope they help.


But make a photo from left side or right side, or in side if you can of course. I can't see how is put yours there. You have the lift&tilt system or only tilt? I think your is different, i can't see better in this photo.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby elryko1992 » 22 Apr 2018, 11:52

Look in the photo what i need. :?
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby greybeard » 22 Apr 2018, 14:05

Mine is tilt only - very different to yours. The photo is from the left, but it shows no detail of the actuator connection that's hidden from view.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby elryko1992 » 22 Apr 2018, 14:50

greybeard wrote:Mine is tilt only - very different to yours. The photo is from the left, but it shows no detail of the actuator connection that's hidden from view.


I see yours is different. I have the Tilt & Lift System on my Puma 40, i buy it with only the lift option but he have to put tilt option, and that i want to see what is missing on my system. I buy the actuator with micro switches but i don't have the parts to put it on my system. I search on the internet and ask the REAC from Poland but nothing, they works only with dealer. Thanks anyway man.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby greybeard » 22 Apr 2018, 16:15

Try a Sunrise dealer.
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby greybeard » 23 Apr 2018, 16:02

This gets more bizarre every day! :lol: Definitely more than one glemlin is at work here. :cussing

I've now discovered that without me sitting in it, if I push the joystick forwards, the seat tilts back as I said earlier, but if I keep holding the stick forward the tilt reaches the end of its upward travel and then comes back down again. That seems to defy logic.

Somehow it implies that either the polarity of the power supply is reversing all by itself, or something major has gone wrong with the tilt assembly mechanism.

Unfortunately I can't disassemble the chair at the moment but it's certainly doing my head in just trying to understand what the hell is going on. czy banghead
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Re: Puma 40 Tilt problem

Postby ex-Gooserider » 24 Apr 2018, 00:03

I would repeat my earlier suggestion about disconnecting the actuator from the chair actuator module, and instead controlling it with a switch. (Look up DC Motor reversing circuits for details on how to wire it) I can't think of any way the function reversing can be a problem with the actuator, but at least this will let you isolate the problem.

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