Wheel removal tips

[ex-Gooserider]

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Bosch-Gds-18-V-Liht-3165140726542-18V-High-Torque-Impact-Wrench-2-X-4.0Ah-Li-Ion

If anyone wants to bank transfer 380 quid to me I'll order one today!

It does seem a trifle extravagant for a single use application though, so it's probably gonna be a trip to the hire shop when it opens agin.

If you have a Harbor Fright equivalent in the UK, I'd check for an impact wrench there - the one linked is top of the line, great for people that earn a living with a tool, but overpriced for single use (as you agree....) OTOH, I find that the HF tools are on the crappy side, and may not be good for more than a few uses, but often are low priced enough to be comparable to a rental, and you get to keep the pieces...

In all probability a crappy HF impact wrench will do as much (or as little) good as the fancy one, and not hurt the wallet as much...

I'd try GOOD penetrating oil like PB-Blaster or Kroil just on general principles... Also it might work to undo that nut in the center and pull the entire wheel and hub assembly off - that gets it away from the motors, so you can then apply more serious forces...

Good luck...

ex-Gooserider

[greybeard]

Thanks for the advice, Goose. Even crap drivers on ebay that I've seen are approaching half that top end price so if it comes to it, it will have to be the hire shop.

[rover220]

Thanks for the advice, Goose. Even crap drivers on ebay that I've seen are approaching half that top end price so if it comes to it, it will have to be the hire shop.

Do you not have a decent local dealer you can trust to sort the job?

[greybeard]

To be honest I've never looked for one. Because we're in the sticks a bit and transporting the chair is a bit of a problem, I always prefer to be self-reliant when it comes to maintenance. If I really can't manage this, then that will be the last resort.
Going to try a few of everybody's suggestions later.
Thanks again to all who have offered advice.

[rover220]

Get in touch if you struggle. I'm down that way often enough.

[greybeard]

That's a very generous offer, Rover. Actually I've just acquired newer chair so the Puma is now my backup to be fettled as a when. I managed to get one wheel off but the hub is going to need heat to shift and I have no doubt the other is the same. Naturally, Sod's law dictated that I had just run out of gas! I'll try again when I have some more.

[alfiepink]

Any news on the wheels. Just a thought here .can you not buy your self a cheap manual impact screwdrivers the ones you smack with hammer. I use them on my car to remove the little grub bolt what aligns the break disk up. It quite effective .i brought mine from halfords. Think it set me back around 20 quid. It got a life time warranty as well

[greybeard]

No, not yet. I have the impact driver you describe and it did help getting the wheel-to-hub bolts undone after a soak in penetrating oil. But the hubs are still stuck fast on the shafts. They will need heat to shift them - but they WILL come off when I put my mind to it

I seem to remember someone (BM possibly) recommending a copper spray on the shafts to prevent future binding. I'll be using that after a good clean-up when reassembling the hubs.

[steves1977uk]

Swearing usually helps too!

Steve

[Burgerman]

Copper grease best for steel but I use it everywhere. Steel, stainless, etc.
Nickle and graphite grease are supposed to be better for stainless and aluminum.

When assembling stainless hardware, you MUST use anti seize grease, if you dont the threads can gaull and jam solid... Locking the hardware together as if welded.

[greybeard]

jam solid... Locking the hardware together as if welded.

Don't I know it!!!!!

And swearing does definitely help

[alfiepink]

Try not to use to much heat as it look like there aluminium wheels and you could make them brittel .is there no way of getting any kind of hub puller in there. Just an idea

[greybeard]

No. The hubs are steel. The wheels are will be removed from the hubs before the heat is applied to get the hubs off the shafts - using a hub puller.

[ICEUK]

If all the bolts are undone and the wheel is jammed on hub put them back on finger tight and take chair for a drive, the wheel will work loose

[greybeard]

If all the bolts are undone and the wheel is jammed on hub put them back on finger tight and take chair for a drive, the wheel will work loose

Yes, thanks. I had thought of that. Saw it on YouTube as a tip for getting stuck wheels off cars, so thought it might work.
Could well end up giving it a try if the blowtorch doesn't work easily. Not so urgent now as I have acquired another chair.

[greybeard]

To be honest I've never looked for one. Because we're in the sticks a bit and transporting the chair is a bit of a problem, I always prefer to be self-reliant when it comes to maintenance. If I really can't manage this, then that will be the last resort.
Going to try a few of everybody's suggestions later.
Thanks again to all who have offered advice.

It's been a while but I eventually had a determined go at this today. Got both wheels off the hubs and managed to get one hub off its shaft using heat. The other hub is still stuck fast on the shaft. Lots of heat and a three jaw puller have moved it about 1/8" but that's all. It's just rock solid after this.

One difficulty I'm having, that may or may not be preventing the hub from releasing, is that the puller isn't applying force directly along the axis of the shaft. It always wants to pull slightly to one side. To be honest I've never used one before so may be doing it all wrong. Not wanting to damage the threaded hole in the end of the shaft (for the single wheel retaining bolt) I've been screwing another bolt into this hole for the puller screw to press against. I've been applying enough force tightening the puller that I bent several of these before I realised they needed to be shortened so as to screw completely into the hole. That stops them bending but doesn't stop the puller screw from wandering off centre.

I'm not sure I can apply any more force to the spanner on the puller screw without damaging the motor, forcing it to rotate against the brake. Don't want to do too much hammering for the same reason.

I could do with some tips to help the puller stay straight. Also any more ideas that haven't already been suggested in this very helpful thread.
Thanks guys.

[Burgerman]

There are times when something that is corroded to the shaft cannot be removed. But penetrating / freeing oils, time, perseverence, heat is likely the only way. Makes you wonder why not use a small smear of grease on assembly no?

Well they dont because thats too easy. But if they do, then all the back/forward loads cause the key to fret and wear the shaft/wheel hub. It SHOULD be on a spline or a taper. But its only a wheelchair so who cares...

[firehopper]

as for a tip. perhaps drill a small hole into the top of the bolt your using for the puller to push against.. something big enough and just deep enough for the pusher to get into. maybe put a small bit of grease in the hole too. just be carefull you dont get hurt, when it lets go, it could be violent.

[greybeard]

as for a tip. perhaps drill a small hole into the top of the bolt your using for the puller to push against.. something big enough and just deep enough for the pusher to get into. maybe put a small bit of grease in the hole too. just be carefull you dont get hurt, when it lets go, it could be violent.

Thanks. Will definitely do this tomorrow.

[greybeard]

There are times when something that is corroded to the shaft cannot be removed. But penetrating / freeing oils, time, perseverence, heat is likely the only way. Makes you wonder why not use a small smear of grease on assembly no?

I have had these hubs off once before and, yes, I did grease them on reassembly. That's why it's puzzling that they've been so hard to shift this time.

[Burgerman]

Coppergrease. Once the grease has washed out/dried out. the copper remains to prevent that brown stuff welding everything into one.

Of course its possible the keyway has failed and the key is now jamming it. Sometimes on a bad design, lik a parallel shaft and a key, grease works the opposite way and rust may have been better. When you buy a chair, avoid those with parallel shaft and keyways.

[greybeard]

When you buy a chair, avoid those with parallel shaft and keyways.

Isn't that a bit easier said than done? Which manufacturers' models have splined or tapered motors as stock, or even as options?

[Burgerman]

Sunrise finally learned. So all theirs as far as I know for about a decade. All are on a taper. One tap after removing the bolt, and they are loose and fall off. So at least linix and AMT motors!

[greybeard]

Finally cracked it. It was a bugger but the hub eventually came off. The key was slightly ridged but I don't have a spare so it was re-used. Wheels & new tyres fitted and all is well with the world.

Thanks again for all the help.

ps: Plenty of copper grease sprayed everywhere

[flagman1776]

When I worked in a boat yard, one of my jobs was removing inboard propellers from the shafts. It was a tapered connection. After removing the cotter pin & nut we'd use a propeller puller. It was most common for the propellers to not let go with as much force as we could apply. We'd rotate the prop & bang on the hub between blades, trying to set up a resonance. Sometimes making a full rotation, hammering each space. Suddenly it would pop & let go with everything flying everywhere. Applications of Never Sieze didn't seem to help on these... probably washed out though it was used successfully on Outboard & I/O splined slafts.

[ex-Gooserider]

Sometimes if you get a little movement in one direction, it can help to push it back on, then pull off, repeat.... Ditto with stuck fasteners, etc. If it won't go in one direction, try the other "wrong" direction for a bit, then go forwards again....

I've seen several claimed reasons for it to work, which one doesn't really matter other than as theory, since the important thing is to get it off....

1. cycling back and forth causes corrosion bits to break into smaller particles....
2. It helps carry penetrating oils further into the stuck places...
3. It helps any parts that are wedged get un-wedged so they can slide instead of jamming...

ex-Gooserider

[greybeard]

That's what I did a little bit at a time, plus penetrating oil, heat and force (puller). Each time it released there was a sharp "crack" noise. Hopefully the copper grease will make it easier next time.

[greybeard]

That's what I did a little bit at a time, plus penetrating oil, heat and force (puller). Each time it released there was a sharp "crack" noise. Hopefully the copper grease will make it easier next time.

[ex-Gooserider]

As an added tactic suggestion, if there is a nut on the end of the shaft, keep it there as long as possible...... Take the nut off, remove any washers, put it back on, and as the wheel or hub comes off back the nut off a couple turns at a time to give it more room...

Keeping the nut on helps keep the end of the shaft from getting buggered up.... If using a puller, it will help to keep the puller bolt in position as the nut acts as a rim to keep the bolt from slipping off the end of the shaft.

This is extra important in the other case where you need to wallop the end of the shaft or axle with a hammer - it protects the threads... Usually far easier and cheaper to replace a bashed up nut than it is to replace the axle or shaft...

Also an impact wrench on a puller is far more effective than a regular wrench, as the blows help break any bonds. Same deal when driving - use an air impact gun....

ex-Gooserider

[greybeard]

Good advice. If only the manufacturer had possessed the sense to thread the OUTSIDE of the shaft instead of a hole for a tiddly bolt in the end of it. I had to drill the head of a bolt to take the spike on the end of the puller or else bugger up the internal thread.