Advice for connecting new charger

[Broeux]

My 12 year old Afikim Breeze scooter's electronics (charging system) has apparently gone bad and charging via the xlr port is not working (see my profile for more details of the issue). I've decided to switch to direct charging and believe something like the ProMariner ProSport charger should work well. My question is what is the minimum amp rating I really need to charge my 75aH batteries overnight? With my scooter usage, I am not concerned so much with rapid charging; up to 12+ hours to recharge from 70% state of charge should be sufficient. I've been told I really need the 20 amp version, but I'm thinking the 12 amp model would be enough, 6 amps per battery, considering the old 6 amp charger worked fine to recharge both batteries for 12 years.

Also, I would like some advice on the best way to connect the charger. A charger manufacturer's technician recommended using a 4 pin trailer light wiring harness, but I don't know with the gauge of the wires would be adequate. I've studied the information on this site about the Anderson connectors and really like that approach, but I don't know what amp rating connectors and wiring to use. Would I be able to just cut the two cords from the terminal lug ends, insert them in the connectors, then insert the ends of the cords from the charge in connectors to plug into the battery's connectors?

Thanks for your help.

[rover220]

these xlr ports are wired backwards compared to standard mobility chargers. check with a meter but i suspect you just need to reverse the polarity of the charger.

[Broeux]

How can I check the polarity of the charger? Anyway, when I plug it into the xlr port of a local wheelchair, the charging light lights up the way it's supposed to normally.

[Burgerman]

Almost all mobility devices are wired the same. Except the one you have. As recognised by rover200.
Reverse the connections inside the XLR plug and it should charge. If you cant drive a soldering iron, then find a man to do this for you.

If you need to check, use a digital volt meter. But I think that this is your charge issue. Especially as it works fine on other devices.

[Broeux]

Thanks rover and burgerman. I have tried to research this to determine if my scooter is wired with reverse polarity but cannot find anything to confirm it, yet. I did see Afikim scooters and chargers sold in the UK with reverse polarity, but I'm shocked that they would market it in the US that way. And, the charger that was supplied with my scooter is not labeled "reverse polarity," which I would think it would have to be if used in the US. I note that those chargers which are marketed in the UK are clearly advertised as such.

If I could resolve this so simply, that would be great. I know what polarity means in simple terms but plead ignorance in exactly how to test polarity in the xlr plug with my multimeter. Could you please explain it to me in steps "even a caveman can understand?!"

Thanks again.

[Burgerman]

This is how a normal plug is wired.

Swap the PLUS and MINUS wire positions in YOUR case. Disconect the INHIBIT pin completely, at least for now to test. And the scooter will charge normally. That pin just stops you driving. Connect it later if you wish to the negative wire.

[Broeux]

That is exactly how my xlr port is configured on the new AND old chargers. I should point out that I previously determined that the inhibit function is not working; the scooter operates when the charger is connected. Of course, the charger isn't actually charging, maybe that's why. Anyway, I and Afikim assumed perhaps the xlr port was bad and I ordered a new one and installed it but still no charging and no inhibit function.

The 15A Zin Ear charging circuit breaker was not tripped. I pushed the button anyway and found continuity across its poles but don't know if that proves it is good.

I guess another obvious thing to consider is whether my new 5A charger is sufficient to start charging these 75aH batteries. I thought the only difference between my original 6A and this 5A charger would be the recharge time, but I don't know enough about the electronics of it all. I know these chargers get feedback from the batteries and charging won't kick in if voltage is too low (not an issue for me now). Is it possible that the charging won't start because the charger is reading the aH ratings of the batteries and it's not capable of charging them. Makes no sense to me.

My local scooter stores don't want to get involved with this imported scooter because they say they don't know anything about it and don't have an account with Afikim to get parts. I question that. Anyway, I'm sure there is someone in this area with enough electronics smarts and curiosity to tackle and resolve the problem, but finding them, paying the price for diagnostics and then for parts, and doing so before my new batteries are discharged and ruined is not promising. The scooter is 12 years old, and I'm afraid the circuit board(s) or other wiring may be at fault.

Which brings me back to my original conclusion: it would probably be quicker, cheaper and perhaps even better to go straight to the batteries bypassing the scooter electronics. So I would appreciate advise on my charger (like, ProSport 12A vs. 20A) and wiring questions (Anderson connectors, trailer light wiring harness, wire gauges, etc.). But if anyone can think of anything else I can try first that would be great.

Thanks for your help.

[Burgerman]

You dont appear to be listening. This isnt your average forum. The people here, or at least some, are extremely knowlegable. Swap the plus and minus wires. Disconnect the inhibit pin. Problem solved.

Stop listening to your "experts"... Even the manufacturers. They are almost universally clueless. I am not in the least surprised they didnt see your problem. Stop over analysing it, esp as you dont understand batteries or electrics or charging! Just swap charge polarity and then come back here and tell us we were wrong.

This *is* the solution.

Alternatively if you really cant swap 2 wires, then just buy this, as it has already been done for you. https://www.discountscooters.co.uk/8ah- ... d-polarity

Added... If your battery has been left a long time in a less than fully charged state it will likely be less than good. Batteries must be stored in a fully charged condition. But if above about 9 or 10 volts each the charger will still charge them.

[rover220]

You dont appear to be listening. This isnt your average forum. The people here, or at least some, are extremely knowlegable. Swap the plus and minus wires. Disconnect the inhibit pin. Problem solved.

Stop listening to your "experts"... Even the manufacturers. They are almost universally clueless. I am not in the least surprised they didnt see your problem. Stop over analysing it, esp as you dont understand batteries or electrics or charging! Just swap charge polarity and then come back here and tell us we were wrong.

This *is* the solution.

Alternatively if you really cant swap 2 wires, then just buy this, as it has already been done for you. https://www.discountscooters.co.uk/8ah- ... d-polarity

Added... If your battery has been left a long time in a less than fully charged state it will likely be less than good. Batteries must be stored in a fully charged condition. But if above about 9 or 10 volts each the charger will still charge them.

This.

[Broeux]

Burgerman, I do appreciate the expertise represented here, which is why I signed up after seeing the staggering amount of information here. You will get no argument from me about my lack of schooling in electrics and charging. You are obviously correct that I should not have listened to my experts. When you posted the shot of the normal xlr pin configuration and I said it was exactly like my Afikim-supplied charger, pin 1 being positive, it's because I asked the Afikim "technical manager" which pin was positive and he said pin 1!

Attached are photos of the xlr plug wiring of the old and new charger.

New: pins 1 and 2 are pos. and neg., respectively, assuming white is positive and a wire connecting 1 and 3 and a green wire on pin 3.

Old: pins 2 and 1 are pos. and neg., reversed,a connection from 1 to 3 and no green wire (on the xlr port there is a green wire from pin 3 to the circuit board).

It would have saved me and everyone else a lot of time and trouble if the original charger had been labeled "reverse polarity." AFAIK, everything here across the pond is "normal" polarity. I no longer own soldering iron, solder, flux or suitable work space to switch the wires nor are my hands steady enough to do it if I did. But I think I can get someone to do it for me. I guess the green wire on pin 3 of the new charger can stay in place? And I should also disconnect the inhibit wire from the circuit board?

Thanks.

[Burgerman]

What does the green connect to?

Swap everything that goes to pins 1 and 2 to opposite sides.
Since I dont know how the inhibit is wired on that scooter then if it still does not charge then disconnect inhibit pin 3. But it should be fine judging by the 1st image.

[Burgerman]

I guess another obvious thing to consider is whether my new 5A charger is sufficient to start charging these 75aH batteries.

1 Amp will charge a 1000Ah battery. But will tale 1000 hours... Ideally you want an 8 to 12A charger.

I thought the only difference between my original 6A and this 5A charger would be the recharge time, but I don't know enough about the electronics of it all.

Correct.

I know these chargers get feedback from the batteries and charging won't kick in if voltage is too low (not an issue for me now). Is it possible that the charging won't start because the charger is reading the aH ratings of the batteries and it's not capable of charging them. Makes no sense to me.

The charger cant tell. It just sees a voltage. If fully discharged a 5A charger takes 15 hours (5A x 15h = 75Ah) plus around 6 to 8 hours CV time. So a full day. Even if the chargers green light comes on sooner. Because it is still actually charging...

[Broeux]

What does the green connect to?

Green connects to pin 3.

Swap everything that goes to pins 1 and 2 to opposite sides.
Since I dont know how the inhibit is wired on that scooter then if it still does not charge then disconnect inhibit pin 3. But it should be fine judging by the 1st image.

OK, so:

pin 1 white will be switched to pin 2
pin 2 black will go to pin 1
the black wire connecting pin 2 to 3 will go from pin 1 to 3

Correct?

[Burgerman]

Yes. Mirror image pins 1 and 2. Dont touch 3.

[Broeux]

I meant to add that the green wire connects to pin 3. Does that stay the same?

[Burgerman]

Yep.

[Burgerman]

Think of the green as another black. All the blacks are connected together, all are negative and also go to the inhibit.

The white is the positive. And it alone goes to its opposite side.

[Broeux]

SUCCESS! Thank you.

[Burgerman]

So. As you can see, most of the experts are clueless!

There are one or two with a clue. From an worldwide industry of ignorance from my own experience. They all went on a few day courses and understood or learned just enough to be dangerous.