Personal Wheelchair Budgets

[Burgerman]

Ask for justification, prescription for that as a breakdown.

Give them an estimate of maintainance costs eg motors at 3 years, set batteries every 500 cycles, etc. Add tyre costs at 3 sets of front, 2 rear per year. Add labour costs, and cost of beaings, and possible actuator/controller/module/joystick. And the manufacturers estimated service life of 5 years maximum as stated in the manual. Add that its cheaper long term to replace 3 yearly instead of 5, to avoid many of those costs as a more economic way to go on as a heavy user. With economic breakdown showing why.

I included all of this in my own self assessement 10 page detailed prescription, and a copy reciept for the replacement chair that I had already paid for out of pocket. Complete with full spec, price breakdown, and prescription form copy, whilst the brand new chair sat empty in my room. All ready for when they sent their expert "margret" who knew about seating and bugger all about the actual chairs, to "assess" me at home... Busted from the start.

[Medusa]

Hi,
I've just been refused a wheelchair budget by my WCS who sent me the message below. Am I right that they're wrong and that the new wheelchair budgets are suppose to be available now, and can be given in a one off 'direct payment' into my bank account so that I can buy a suitable and affordable wheelchair without the restrictions of the voucher scheme? And if I am right, is there anything specific online I can send them to back me up please? I'm struggling to find anything that isnt vague enough for them to wriggle out of and their voucher offer, which I'd already turned down, isnt useful to me at this point so I really need them to shift their position on it. Thanks for any help, heres their message..

"We are in the process of implementing Personal Wheelchair Budgets in xxx, but have some way to go before we are ready to pilot this scheme and roll it out fully. We are therefore unable to provide you with a Personal Wheelchair Budget at this time.

I notice your reference to direct payments. Direct payments are currently not routinely available as an option for managing a standalone personal wheelchair budget. NHS England and the Department of Health and Social Care are currently reviewing existing regulations to establish whether additional contributions are permissible under the Direct Payments in Healthcare Regulations. Direct payments are not something we are planning to roll out in xxxx in the near future, but we will be guided by national developments.

As per NHS England guidance, vouchers will remain available throughout the transition period and so will remain available until we have fully rolled out Personal Wheelchair Budgets. I will request for another copy of the yellow forms to be send to you, for you to return along with your wheelchair quotation."

[Burgerman]

Hi,
I've just been refused a wheelchair budget by my WCS who sent me the message below. Am I right that they're wrong and that the new wheelchair budgets are suppose to be available now, and can be given in a one off 'direct payment' into my bank account so that I can buy a suitable and affordable wheelchair without the restrictions of the voucher scheme?

Yes... Read ALL of this thread starting at post 1.

And if I am right, is there anything specific online I can send them to back me up please? I'm struggling to find anything that isn't vague enough for them to wriggle out of and their voucher offer, which I'd already turned down, isnt useful to me at this point so I really need them to shift their position on it. Thanks for any help, heres their message..

Again read ALL of this thread and follow all links.

"We are in the process of implementing Personal Wheelchair Budgets in xxx, but have some way to go before we are ready to pilot this scheme and roll it out fully. We are therefore unable to provide you with a Personal Wheelchair Budget at this time.

I started this scheme and had fights with the health department and some big involved discussions. And was on a pilot scheme of initially JUST ME, 8 years ago. I have had 3 cheques so far - one every 3 years. And the various CCGs (each area) were supposed to have had 2 years already to get organized, and were supposed to offer this to ALL starting this year April. But most predictably in a socialist NHS they have no clue, hadn't heard anything about it, and make every excuse under the sun as to why its not available. The reason is that they are completely incompetent. And I really mean incompetent.

I notice your reference to direct payments. Direct payments are currently not routinely available as an option for managing a standalone personal wheelchair budget

.
Correct. That was the pilot scheme method of paying, going back some 8 years. I am now paid by the local WCS via a payment into my account by the CCG directly.

NHS England and the Department of Health and Social Care are currently reviewing existing regulations to establish whether additional contributions are permissible under the Direct Payments in Healthcare Regulations. Direct payments are not something we are planning to roll out in xxxx in the near future, but we will be guided by national developments.

Its all excuses and a lack of organization. The socialist way. The CCG will and can pay into your account and so can direct payments as they do mine. And you can spend it as you want. Do you want a screenshot?? For e.g. to build this from hundreds of non wheelchair parts. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM-MK3- ... rchair.htm

As per NHS England guidance, vouchers will remain available throughout the transition period and so will remain available until we have fully rolled out Personal Wheelchair Budgets.

True. 2017 April. to 2018 April. Its now OCTOBER. They should have been fully organized ready for April. They had 2 years warning ahead of this time as well. THIS year, is their transitional year where BOTH systems run side by side until april -- which was over 7 months ago. After that then the old crappy voucher scheme is supposed to have ended along with its corrupt backhanders, restriction of what you can buy etc.

In May 2016, Simon Stevens (BOSS OF THE NHS) announced that NHS England and all of its CCGs, would be developing a personal health budgets model for the provision of wheelchairs. This work is being led by NHS England’s Personal Health Budget Team, as part of plans for the wider expansion of personal health budgets nationally.

Since April 2017, all clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) in England have been expected to start developing local personal wheelchair budget offers to replace the current wheelchair voucher system.

During 2017/18, all CCGs should publish the details of their personal wheelchair budget offer as part of their personal health budget local offer, usually available on CCG websites.

During the transitional period, wheelchair vouchers should still be made available.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/personal-hea ... r-budgets/

At the end of 2018 in 8 weeks, that should be it. No voucher scheme, only PWB remaining. Of course they are terrified of change, and frankly stupid, and so thy cling to the old voucher scheme model... INCORRECTLY. They seem to think its just a name change. It is NOT!

And so its then up to you how to spend it. You can buy used, have several chairs, so you have a backup chair, or build your own from parts as I do... I now have 4 chairs and one in bits. None of their damned business how you spend it as long as they give you the money to cover maintenance, cushion, any other seating or other clinical and holistic needs by way of an AGREED assessment for the SUITABLE chair they would have supplied.

[FourLions]

clinical commissioning groups list

https://www.nhs.uk/ServiceDirectories/P ... sting.aspx

[Burgerman]

A CCG is just a small bunch of doctors that go to CCG meeting a couple of times a month for some extra £££. And they dont really have much idea or time to spend on anything more than about 2 sentences per subject. As such the various wheelchair services end up equally clueless and try to make it up as they go along. 2 years after they were supposed to do so. And the various WCS seem to think its the Voucher scheme by a different name and so try and apply the same "rules" as they are used to doing. I.e safety nazi'd, specific chairs, etc. Thats NOT what it is designed to be. But unless people wake up, and refuse to accept this crap, it will "stick".

As such I am happy to report that my new custom built, fat tyred, relocated seat/ C/G, reprogrammed, cheaply bought, all singing, all dancing 120A R-net, and rebuilt modified Salsa with power tilt, recline, and seat riser, and power centre footrest is working just great. Soon to be lithium with 3x the range. And it complements my other 3 chairs that I custom built with previous budgets money really well!

But YOU must kick them into shape. YOU must make them understand what this wheelchair budget was INTENDED to be for and why. It was to allow TOTAL USER CHOICE!!! Not restrictions and red tape.

Hence the JOHN on the leaflet here (me - now 59)...

[FourLions]

Well said John

[ICEUK]

BM,
Did WCS give you the money to buy your salsa or did the wheelchair supplier invoice WCS direct? Ie you done the prescription form negotiated a price and then they invoiced WCS?

Thx

[Burgerman]

It has nothing to do with them WHAT you spend it on or how.

I assessed myself in writing properly. They sent an assessor called Margaret, their best expert, who hadn't a clue about anything but seating. She looked at my assessment.Read it and looked bewildered. She went back and agreed it with the WCS who got the CCG to put a figure that included my assessment and chair, on the prescription form, on the same spec chair and an agreed 3 years maintenance and cushion figure, and they sent the money to my bank directly. My sortxxx my accxxxxxxx £XXXX.XX CCG in.

I might add the chair was sitting here already when assessed and modified IN THIS INSTANCE. But never previously. But I always have 3 or 4...
And they only pay (INCORRECTLY right now) the amount that it will cost them trade. But I bought trade anyway so it covered it give or take. Dont forget maintenance and cushions/backs in addition. But you can spend it how you want. Previously I spent on parts, batteries, DIY chairs. Theres also that 3 or 5 year thing. I get every 3 years since 2012. Because I USE my chairs to death... And they know it. I gave them a REAL maintenance costing with receipts over 3 years period to look at.

[foghornleghorn]

Does anyone know whether Personal Wheelchair Budgets is just for 1 wheelchair?

I have always had a basic RWD one for indoors that can't really go any further outside than just on the drive as everywhere else is sloping, and a separate FWD outdoor only go anywhere one that is too bulky for indoor use. Can't transfer myself - have to be hoisted or bounced across by a strong person - but a lot of days both get used and I can't do everything with just one.

[Burgerman]

How many times do I have to repeat.

The budget is made up from what THEY would have paid. Instead they give that figure to YOU based on a 3 or 5 year usage assessment that you should both agree.

They do a hypothetical quote based on assessment a prescription form, 3 or 5 years maintenance, cushion etc., and send the money to your account. After that its UP TO YOU. Spend it on an army of dwarves if you want to carry you about. Or ongoing upkeep of your favorite selection of old quad bikes and manual chairs. Or used, bought and sold, repaired or custom built. CHOICE is the point. They no longer care or check, its non of their business. Do as YOU wish!

[foghornleghorn]

How many times do I have to repeat.

927. Are you keeping count?

Sounds like I need to spec up something expensive then spend the budget on an army of dwarves


Weirdly I have just now had a voicemail from WCS asking me what I have got and what I use it for as if they have no idea.

[steves1977uk]

WCS are clueless! The one I'm dealing with mentioned something about having to ask the National Forum? They also said they are aware of the WPHB, but automatically thought I'm wanting an all-terrain chair since I told them their Spectra XTR offering would be useless to me! I'm interested to see what they come up with!

Steve

[MichaelB]

Sounds like I need to spec up something expensive then spend the budget on an army of dwarves

I think that what BM saying is that you need to describe your needs clearly so that the chair prescription has everything that you want, WCS will then give you what they would pay from their supplier. From my discussion with them it was what met my clinical needs, 45ºtilt for pressure relief, Ottobock armrests for support of hands etc. I don't know whether they would take into account 4 pole motors or 120A controllers, probably a bit too technical for the average wheelchair OT, you might need to give solid reasons why. You can still build an expensive spec using postural equipment though.

[Burgerman]

Correct. So do a detailed self prescription covering everything possible and WHY. With a matching prescription form from the chair manufacturer all filled in with notes as to why each option.

4 pole and 120A because of my weight and turn on spot, ramps, curbs. They accepted no prob, because they were not technical enough to understand or argue.

And not ONLY clinical needs but lifestyle and holistic needs, including your preferences. Whilst primarily only supplying indoor solutions, they are supposed to take the big picture and your hobbies, or your lifestyle such as dog walking or whatever, into account as well. Provided you cant swap chairs to go outdoors alone.

Lift, so that you can easily transfer to bed, sofa, dressing bench, etc without a lift or assistance and without causing skin damage. Tilt, recline, because pressure relief. Power footrest so you can empty legbag, reach valve, so on... Cushions pressure sore prevention. Headrests so that when tilt and recline head doesn't fall off. etc. Large batteries because real world range allows you to get food, bank, and your hobbies etc. DETAILS.

[foghornleghorn]

You can still build an expensive spec using postural equipment though.

That would be easy to achieve. My spine is a twisted mess so all WCS cared about last year was trying to correct it with no understanding that if I am put in a fixed position I can't breathe as I move a bit all the time assisting my weak diaphragm breathing. I think she doubled the cost of the basic wheelchair with all the fancy seating options. I also couldn't move my arms enough to open a door or window but instead of thinking that was a backwards step she suggested fitting electric door openers all round the house! Living on another planet

I think they get away with being useless as they are presented as being experts and everything is 'free'.

[MichaelB]

You can still build an expensive spec using postural equipment though.

That would be easy to achieve. My spine is a twisted mess so all WCS cared about last year was trying to correct it with no understanding that if I am put in a fixed position I can't breathe as I move a bit all the time assisting my weak diaphragm breathing. I think she doubled the cost of the basic wheelchair with all the fancy seating options. I also couldn't move my arms enough to open a door or window but instead of thinking that was a backwards step she suggested fitting electric door openers all round the house! Living on another planet

I think they get away with being useless as they are presented as being experts and everything is 'free'.

No doubt in some cases. My wife just finished her OT degree and possibly has a bit more real world experience after 5 years of caring for me. There is no way she would go into WCS after watching my problems with them. When it comes to aids she also knows when to ask how much independence do you want? She knows that I don't bother as I have a support worker 24/7 why would I need a door opener when I can ask my support worker??

[Burgerman]

Personally I always DEMAND as much independence as is practical. Now heres the problem. They think small. They only know about their field. They get fixes out of a brochure at stupid disabled level prices. This requires a JOINED UP thinking approach. For e.g. Why do I need a wet room, and a waterproof rusty shower chair that smells and gathers mold if I cant get dressed without a carer here anyway? Bed baths take an extra few mins. If I had allowed all the dozens of OT's to do what they all thought were marvelous ideas, my home would look like a hospital, my wheelchair would be a barely motorized deck chair, and I would have wet rooms, beds, etc all connected like overhead train lines with power lifts, railings, and council style ramps with metal railings outside, etc etc. And would still be restricted as hell. Since all that takes hours! And causes transfer issues and discomfort.

Instead I made a big complex but initially expensive plan. I removed walls, widened doors, added a huge extension, built better full sized and capable powerchairs, and a drive from wheelchair van, with plenty of parking and no ramps required as I built up the driveway to the doorway. I also scrapped the wet-room, as it was so difficult to use, was a huge time waste swapping chairs, trying to get back and forth from benches, beds etc. And it loved mould... Looked tatty. All ripped out. I just do bed baths now, and have a dry (wet) room. Looks like new, for emergencies only. And a good wash in bed by a carer for the bits I cant reach works equally well, requires well under 1/4 the time. Doesn't need a moldy wet room, and doesn't require endless transfers that cause sores and damage.

All floors are now either ceramic tiles on concrete, so no wear or tyre marks that cant be polished off with a cloth. Or black/grey industrial carpet tiles.
All doors are 30 inch wide or greater. Some swing both ways for ease. New huge kitchen now walls are removed, low maintenance, and everything opens out towards you, for easy access. Space is the most important thing, not overpriced disabled adaptations.

Easy house access with no obvious ramps. Back and front. Wide doorways. All downstairs is black HD carpet tiles as you can simply replace any damaged ones and no tyre marks. Cameras on driveway, doors, around house from my laptop. Driveway is flat, huge and zero gardening. Outdoors is lit at night back and front. Back garden is brick, or grass and no borders. With hidden non obvious ramps, no railings, and very low maintenance. Just a strimmer and auto mower... (Shaun!)

Lighting is mostly auto, or remote controlled. All paintwork outdoors eliminated (plastic cladding on all previous woodwork, plastic double glazed windows, plastic doors etc. All in a bungalow with 4 bedrooms, and a large kitchen. The kitchen WAS two rooms, with a dining room. But wall use up space. And I extended the whole back of the house by 25 feet to make all the bedrooms and kitchen bigger still.

I could have spend even more by leaving the house alone, and fitting 100s of OT suggested gadgets and extras to make it disabled friendly. And it would still lack space, have narrow doors, and look obviously adapted and still be a struggle. Who wants that? Its as cheap to do the big plan, the bigger picture in ways that enhance the house as well as allow you more freedom and an easier life with greater levels of independence. By JOINED UP big picture thinking. I lost count of the times I saw people spend a fortune on obvious adaptations, only to move house or redo everything properly at a later date.

Wish I had kept the councils drawings for the ramps, tracks, wet rooms, bath lifts, roll in shower, rusty shower chairs, etc that they recommended after consultations with OT's. That they wanted to spend 10s of thousands on this! To show what a mess this place would have looked. I made it MORE disabled friendly, more usable with twice the usable space, and no obvious adaptations for the same money. By having a bigger joined up long term plan. Theres no place now that I could go that works better. And theres no obvious sign of any disability once the wheelchairs are put in the garage (by Radio Control!).

[MichaelB]

Similar story, before I moved home OT said bathroom was not big enough for a chair, after a bit of measuring we went for it and it fits! Doors were wide enough and solid wood or granite floor tiles. We had most of the house like that pre accident luckily as you get no help if you were daft enough to save or had decent jobs. She learned a lot about what was offered and what I need. Things like TV switch control, 53 button pushes to get the channel that I want or a few words to my support worker?. Why would I struggle with a head switch when I can ask more quickly and without getting irate because I miss a switch menu? The most important bit is listening and providing advice and help finding an individual solution. She also sees the crazy cost cutting, friends who don't get inco pads or get roles of hard blue paper for wiping their arses and knows that everything has a cost. Need more OT's like her with first hand knowledge of the f'cked up system.

She'll probably move into mental health which is a pity as she would be far more use working with the disabled.

[steves1977uk]

https://www.england.nhs.uk/blog/there-a ... in-wheels/ PWBs seems to be rolling out in Hull

Steve

[Burgerman]

They still dont really see to get it though. They arranged the extra cost to be paid by the LA in place of care money!!!

And they assessed his needs, and decided to include his holistic needs, only because it meant they would save on providing a carer. And they also arranged the adapted chair, extra lift/legs etc and provided the chair... NOT THE POINT!!! They are supposed to do that anyway.

They STILL think its an extension to their voucher scheme! And when they say rolled out last summer they mean 2 years ago. And when they say they were one of the first to implement this and check it out, they mean 8 YEARS AFTER ME!!! And they SHOULD just be providing the money, and the implementation or whatever he decided to spend it on, should not be their job.

Although they do now seem to have grasped that HOLISTIC needs (the pub, the college, etc) MUST be taken into consideration and not just indoor use. So lights, and accepting the need for adequate range, speed, and your INTERESTS must be part of the assessments.

Another problem experienced by Dylan was that he couldn’t charge his wheelchair independently because of the position of the charging point. When I spoke with various wheelchair providers their response was the same – they hadn’t had a demand for an alternative charging point because generally people who use powered wheelchairs have carers! This seemed quite ridiculous to me.

No shit Sherlock! Its took them 30 years to figure that out???

The second stage of the process was a Social Care Assessment. Dylan was already in receipt of a personal budget which he used to pay for his social care. But he wanted to use this direct payment money to pay for the additions to his wheelchair rather than pay for help. He was very clear, if he had to go to university with carers he would defer until he was in a position to do it on his own.

WRONG!!! If he needed less care, than previously, then fair enough. Thats a SEPARATE thing. The amount of care you require, is simple. You undergo an assessment. Every year or so. They pay what is required. The cost of the POWERCHAIR (note not restricted to WHEELCHAIR as a previous poster claimed) as assessed by clinical needs and HOLISTIC and PERSONAL lifestyle or hobby needs is supposed to be funded by the wheelchair services, the CCG. Not direct payments. And its supposed to be to allow YOU to spend as you wish. Not a trade price as here, for them to order the chair!!!

My mother always told me it was vulgar to talk about money, however, in this instance I think it is really important to do so. Dylan’s new wheelchair in total, cost in the region of £5,000,

TO THEM, TRADE.

the wheelchair he would have been issued by the wheelchair service had a value of £3,000, which obviously leaves a deficit of £2,000.

There should be NO deficit. The wheelchair services should pay for the chair, as assessed, including lifestyle, holistic, hobby, and any other thing that affects the users independence, mobility, transfers, driving in vehicles, hobbies, or social life. And the payment should be at a realistic RETAIL price to the users bank account to allow THEM the choice to spend it how I do.

Our request was that our Social Care partners pay £2,000 towards the new chair rather than continuing to give Dylan his direct payment to cover the ongoing cost of carers. This would result in system savings of around £13,000 over the next three years.

They think its about saving money on the overall budget. They STILL dont get it.

The request went to the joint funding panel and the new Personal Wheelchair Budget was approved immediately. Everyone could see the benefits of this personalised approach.

Yes, money saving. And no that wasnt the point of the PWB.

Dylan is now able to transfer independently, raise himself up to the same level as everyone else and put the charging plug into the chair himself. He also tested out the lights and hazards which he advised us would be an essential safety component when traveling back from the pub!

Those things, inc the pub, is holistic, and outdoor. That should have been included in the assessment and paid by WHS regardless. Its already in their written remit!!!

The experience of seeing the difference a Personal Wheelchair Budget can make to someone has had a huge impact on everyone involved. The clinicians within the wheelchair service have had their eyes opened to the opportunities available to them. Other members of the Multi-Disciplinary Team are excited about being given the autonomy to improve the outcomes for the people of the city of Hull.

And after around 40 years of WCS this stuff has only just occured to them? Seriously??? "multi disciplinary team" What???

For me, as a commissioner, Dylan’s experience really does demonstrate the opportunities personalisation can create.
But most importantly, Dylan has achieved his goal of going away to University on his own. I think mum was allowed to travel with him, check out his flat and then had to leave!
He is now doing what really matters to him – starting university with his new found independence.

But thats the point. They were supposed to be doing that for the last 4 decades ANYWAY. The Personal Budget was to allow US to decide, and use the money how WE choose!!!


youtu.be/8GbygovFqS4

[greybeard]

Individual CCGs are obviously being allowed to interpret the rules in any way that suits them. Because patients will generally lack the knowledge to challenge them, CCGs will always be able to get away with this. At the first sign of a challenge they will circle the wagons and ensure that the information of exactly what their rights actually are is withheld from the patients.

[foghornleghorn]

Good for him getting something better for his needs

But they don't seem to have provided anything extra that I couldn't have got from ordinary wheelchair services last year. And only justified it in a bean counter way because it would reduce his care costs.

[Burgerman]

Individual CCGs are obviously being allowed to interpret the rules in any way that suits them. Because patients will generally lack the knowledge to challenge them, CCGs will always be able to get away with this.

CCGs are just doctors from a bunch of local practices that do 3 to 4 meetings in an afternoon every month to deal with CCG matters over a massive spectrum of subjects. They dont spend more than a few seconds on any specific single subject, and so dont have any time to interpret anything. Its the WCS that try to figure out what they are supposed to do. And NHS England that make the rules. That they interpret as: Voucher scheme by a new name... Because thats all they know.

And unless someone holds their feet to the fire (me in my town) then they get away with it. And all the arbitrary added on rules and bulshit and safety nazi stuff and budgetary choices that they feel like they should...

[ICEUK]

Well my wcs are digging there heels in at 20% of the chairs value for maintenance and repair over 5 years, i was offered £1500 in total. It probably costs that per year. I did a break down of the repairs for the year and asked them to justify 20% but they said its agreed guidelines which i know is bs. So what do u do complain to ccg?

[Burgerman]

Send them YOUR OWN assessment that explains your clinical and holistic needs and explain why in detail -- use facts, and logic only. Download a prescription form, fill in all the boxes. Staple that to it. Then invite them to assess you properly at your home. Then if they dont agree with YOUR assessment, insist on an independent assessment that you BOTH agree on. Then ask them again how much they are going to give you. If it does not agree with the INDEPENDENT assessment, and EACH OF YOUR POINTS, or YOUR assessment or choosen chair, then ask them why not? Make sure you get this IN WRITING as all details essential, you are entitled to a breakdown. Remember to include cushions, maintenance, and ask why 5 years when you destroy chairs every 3 if this is the case. It is in mine. Since they are only paying TRADE costs, to me then I only accepted that because it was a 3 yearly figure.

Then get a solicitor if you cant handle it yourself. And buy the correct chair yourself, and get him to extract the money. That last bit wont be needed as they know their responsibilities and court costs just add to the bill. When "Margaret" came to assess me I gave her the bill, SHOWED HER THE CHAIR, as well as my personal assessment (about 10 pages) and the prescription breakdown, and asked her to add some for cushion and maintenance. They didn't argue, other than about the 4mph bullshit. I paid the extra for the 4 to 6mph change. They included the 120A controller. 4 pole, etc. They included a Jay2 back in the price instead. Generally she was very agreeable. But only because we crossed paths previously and I didn't give them any room to escape...

And caused the whole process to start up 8 years ago. Many very heated meetings where the WCS were embarrassed thoroughly by showing how ignorant they were, in front of their "higher ups" in controlled and logical style. They hate me. Not because I did anything wrong. But because I showed the administrators and department of health how clueless they really were.

[Burgerman]

So what do u do complain to ccg?

No. Thats just a group of doctors that go to a meeting a couple of times a month. At best it would be a 1 line question and answer. And then other business. Instead do as I said above.

[ICEUK]

They have agreed to virtually everything i want, my sticking pointing is the lack of monies if you take the pwb, chair at trade price i can deal with that but its the maintenance which is mediocre, no one in there right mind would take a pwb with a small maintenance budget. I have explained the costs to them but its like talking in another language to them. I doubt they even read my replies.

[Burgerman]

The difference between you and almost everyone it seems is that you actually accept their replies! And DO NOTHING about it. You need to get stuck in and mean business. Or be walked over like all the rest.

[foghornleghorn]

It's no surprise they are being tight fisted.

Someone did a Freedom Of Information request about my local WCS last year. The reply showed their total spend divided by number of users for the last 5 years divided out at £1800 each user. That included purchasing chairs, adaptions, AND maintenance.

Maintenance has always seemed to be as little as they can get away with. I don't know if that is the fault of the wheelchair service themselves, or the company contracted to do it.

[foghornleghorn]

To make that a bit clearer: £1800 per user over 5 years = £1/day.