Personal Wheelchair Budgets

[Scooterman]

So then, the results of everyones new attitude is?

Mine is to be pro-active, I sent off a letter last week. But I wish I had some of your gumption

[biscuit]

Found my papers from the presentation last year... can't upload the text on my phone, but one example on the "Wheelchair Personal Health Budget" leaflet I got was "John, aged 51 and from the local area, a skilled engineer, left paraplegic after a motor accident in 1997".... etc.

"John uses his personal health budget" that's what the leaflet says "to pay for mechanical parts so he can build high specification customised power wheelchairs for himself, to help avoid muscle spasms and to maintain his active lifestyle."

So it looks as though Boston is planning on kind of mashing up PWBs and PHBs. They said they will launch in January this year. Myself, I let the NHS and councils do their thing and I do mine.

[Burgerman]

That sounds like me... Yes they are mixing it up with some other budget. Mine is paid by some agreement between WCS and the LA directly into my Direct Payments for care budget. As far as I am aware I have never had any personal health budget And nothing to do with the CCG etc... Quite how they organise that between themselves isnt my problem! And shouldnt be yours. I just contact WCS every 3 years.

A careful read here https://www.england.nhs.uk/personal-hea ... r-budgets/
seems to say that it replaces the voucher scheme. And that they have added the the powerchair budget to the health budget? But thats not the case with me. And its hard to see how they CAN do this if it replaces the voucher scheme! Since that didnt require a heath budget and still doesent!

[Burgerman]

Knowing the jobsworth risk adverse attitude of officialdom in this country I'm amazed they would agree to a 'patient' using the money to purchase secondhand equipment. The NHS won't even re-loan out returned crutches or other temporarily issued 'disabled' equipment for fear of it structurally failing and ending up with a lawsuit for personal injury claim.
More power to your elbow BM for actually getting them to agree it to.

Then this

Found my papers from the presentation last year... can't upload the text on my phone, but one example on the "Wheelchair Personal Health Budget" leaflet I got was "John, aged 51 and from the local area, a skilled engineer, left paraplegic after a motor accident in 1997".... etc.

"John uses his personal health budget" that's what the leaflet says "to pay for mechanical parts so he can build high specification customised power wheelchairs for himself, to help avoid muscle spasms and to maintain his active lifestyle."

So they are boasting that they did allow me to do my own thing. So they dont see a problem. But there isnt one here anyway! The whole idea is to give you the choices and risks to do as YOU want. Its your life.

If they start with the typical institutionalised get out of jail card for doing this, their typical inbuilt holier than thou safety nazi bullshit, point them at the very reason the system was set up! Me... To do exactly that!

I would love a scan of that paperwork!

[biscuit]

By snail mail, no problem. (I can post things, but I can't post things.)

[Burgerman]

OK thanks! See PM!

[Burgerman]

Out of interest, I just called my local wheelchair services. Not only do they not offer power wheelchair budgets, they and I was talking to the boss, have never heard of it! You couldnt make it up could you.

And I am on this for 7 years already!

Personal wheelchair budgets

In May 2016, Simon Stevens announced that NHS England would be developing a personal health budgets model for the provision of wheelchairs. This work is being led by NHS England’s Personal Health Budget Team, as part of plans for the wider expansion of personal health budgets nationally.

Since April 2017, all clinical commissioning groups (CCGs) in England have been expected to start developing local personal wheelchair budget offers to replace the current wheelchair voucher system.

During 2017, all CCGs should publish the details of their personal wheelchair budget offer as part of their personal health budget local offer, usually available on CCG websites.

During the transitional period, wheelchair vouchers should still be made available.

[biscuit]

I had the feeling they are only going to start rolling it out this year in Lincolnshire. And that means doing the bare minimum for as long as they can, i.e. nothing at all but a presentation so far. The presentation was in December-ish, gently introducing the idea of PWBs to Lincs wheelchair users. I think they asked me because I'm on a wheelchair assessment waiting list. Millbrook is the local NHS approved wheelchair supplier and they had a stand at the event. I'm not surprised at your experience, as nobody seemed to have any particular mission at the event, we all just lurked around eating mince pies and I collected the papers I've sent you; and I also gave my contact details to the organizer as she asked for them, but she hasn't done anything detectable with them. So I suppose I ought to be approaching them before they have decided how it is done, which will no doubt be "not at all if we can get away with it". What larks.

[Burgerman]

Dont give them a minute. Letters, calls, and more. Daily!

They rely on the fact that you cant be bothered, all too much trouble, time, and then you give up.

[biscuit]

If anyone has any pro-forma for an official wheelchair assessment it would be helpful if you could post it, as it will give some idea of what questions the assessors think want answering. It's more the kind of thing I and many others can do, rather than starting with an alarmingly blank page. Otherwise I'll find myself telling them that my Viennese is perfect just as it is and it cost me a song.

[Burgerman]

Last one I saw I returned to them with all the questions corrected so that it made sense. Or crossed out with an explanation as to why the question was wrong.

Basically they dont have a clue about how to assess your needs. And you should tell them so. And write a personal assessement.

[Burgerman]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... nnvYhTOWIg

Heres a provisional referal one...

And 7 year oldstandards

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... Kz389ctFIw

[Scooterman]

So then, the results of everyones new attitude is?

Mine is to be pro-active, I sent off a letter last week. But I wish I had some of your gumption

I had a phone call yesterday and WCS have made an appointment for a home visit on Monday. So much for the assessment waiting list, it proves it doesn't have to be 16wks, although I had been on the list for about 11wks! It was only due to advice in this thread that I decided to be more pro-active.

I don't think this is about the personal wheelchair budget as it would be my first powerchair, which I would be happy with as a learning chair.

But I'm not hopeful of passing the assessment though, she already emphasised on the phone that the chair has to be primarily indoor use, which it will be used for, but the real benefit of a powerchair for me will be outdoors and accessing public transport. They can't disqualify me on grounds of my flat as it's totally wheelchair friendly. If they do turn me down then at least I would know where I'll stand metaphorically speaking.

I'll then look into either buying a used Salsa R2 and making some mods similar to BM's new chair ((without tilt or elevate) (with his advice)), or going the whole hog and getting a standard Kilmore chair (no tilt or elevate). I'm only a lightweight and not a heavy user so a well built chair should last me years, maybe even to the grave...

[biscuit]

scooterman did wheelchair services say no to you in the end, they won't let you have a budget? Or is it that they will not give you an actual chair?
I have an indoor - strictly indoor - "Viennese" and recently bought a used Salsa R2 for the pavement, I wouldn't like to take it off-road as it drives on biscuits. The Vienna chassis and seating with the salsa everything else but fatter wheels, would be a nice chair for me, though I can't see that hybrid working as there is nowhere for the batteries to fit for starters, and I have barely got the energy to lift a screwdriver atm.
Meanwhile the Vienna is on its last legs, and I will then have no chair indoors, so wheelchair services might be helpful then. Meanwhile I do my own thing, as long as it's affordable.

[Scooterman]

scooterman did wheelchair services say no to you in the end, they won't let you have a budget? Or is it that they will not give you an actual chair?
I have an indoor - strictly indoor - "Viennese" and recently bought a used Salsa R2 for the pavement, I wouldn't like to take it off-road as it drives on biscuits. The Vienna chassis and seating with the salsa everything else but fatter wheels, would be a nice chair for me, though I can't see that hybrid working as there is nowhere for the batteries to fit for starters, and I have barely got the energy to lift a screwdriver atm.
Meanwhile the Vienna is on its last legs, and I will then have no chair indoors, so wheelchair services might be helpful then. Meanwhile I do my own thing, as long as it's affordable.

Hi, yes they turned me down, I thought they probably would. They couldn't refuse me on the grounds of my property which is powerchair accessible, but the assessor said using a powerchair indoors would make my life more difficult. Which was a more polite way of saying, "We ain't giving you one pal!"
I couldn't really argue against it as it's a one bed flat with solid floors so I can get around simples in a manual chair. But I can't outside which the assessor did accept. WCS did sent me a list of charities which I won't be applying to. I intend either to splash the cash and get one of Tom Kilmore's chairs which are superb. Or look for some secondhand thing to get me by. See I only need a powerchair to go certain places, it will compliment my scooters and manual chair.

[Burgerman]

I wouldn't like to take it off-road as it drives on biscuits.

[CPguy]

With reference to this form posted by Burgerman (http://www.enherts-tr.nhs.uk/files/2012 ... l-form.pdf) I found strange things: "Title: Mr. Mrs. Ms. Miss. and Master". Why on earth do they ask for a "master" title. I mean why not BSc, BA, MA and MSc. that would make more sense.

Second why do they ask about "race" at the end? In Austria, that would be illegal.

Can someone please explain these things to me?

[Burgerman]

MASTER refers to a young person.

The bit where you get asked about race etc is because in a massive effort to prove how open and liberal the nhs is, they give priority to as many non whites, as many confused sexualities and as many immirants as possible. Those of us that are actually british, paid taxes for generations, are put at the end of the line.

[CPguy]

@ Burgerman: Thank you for the information! So, in this context "master" is the male equivalent of "miss", right?

The "race" thing sounds familiar. Here in Austria we have loads of Turkish immigrants and lets just say they have a surprisingly easy and comprehensive access to our social benefits already upon arrival.

[Burgerman]

Yes master = young man.#

Doctors surgery full of immigrants, but I cant get an appointment. Going to try blacking up next time.

[ICEUK]

Tell he wheelchair assesor that you are in pain when you self propel your chair and you can tdo it after a few minutes, You need a powered chair your shoulders will be completely fked in the end!

[Burgerman]

To be fair, there were armies of paraplegics coming out ofthe spinal cord injuries units in the 70s, 80s, 90s, that are now all lining up for shoulder operations and treatments on the cuff rotator whatever that is. After the manual chairs they were all brainwashed into believing were for them in the production line spinal units. All were repeatedyly told by doctors, physios, OTs that they didnt "need" powerchairs and that they were demeaning and you lost "self respect"... Those things were only for the teraplegics. Repeatedly. Till everyone accepts it as fact. That bit of conditioning stuck.

Most typical paraplegics even decades on, wont try or even think about a powerchair. How wrong they are. All you really lost was the freedom a powerchair gives. The added mobility that allows youto nip to the pub without arriving after you froze, got your hands cut up, or covered in dog crap, and looking like you ran a marathon! God forbid theres a hill or two. And the ability to sit in comfort, in a stable platform that allows you to carry a bowl of soup hrough a few doors, or to work on something. And the one thing they cling to is that they need the excercise. Butits the wrong type of excersize andit damages your shoulders.

So this alone is reason enough NOT to be using a manual. Of course if you can walk/stand things are less clear cut.

[biscuit]

Yes often I see ppl using a manual wheelchair and think don't they realise, life is hard enough when you can't walk without having occupied hands to self-propel as well!
My arms are too wussy to self propel and the OT knows it.
I'm reading the add-on battery pinned thread (thanks expresso!) and getting a glint in my eye about a small lithium pack for an indoor/outdoor Viennese with more robust wheels and controls and fewer miles of power. I need a glossary though... most threads are too technical for me, everything is new knowledge. I'll gradually collect acronyms etc. for creating a glossary thread this week -i don't think there is one already - and hope someone will translate them. Nothing is obvious, I just had to look up what awg means.

[Scooterman]

My arms are too wussy to self propel

My arms are too wussy too, and my elbows are shagged.

[Burgerman]

I'll gradually collect acronyms etc. for creating a glossary thread this week -i don't think there is one already - and hope someone will translate them. Nothing is obvious, I just had to look up what awg means.

I had to look up acronym. And glossary!

[CPguy]

Lets be fair, in my opinion, the only truly valid reasons (aside from medical necessity) for a self propelled manual wheelchair are transportation and the breakdown problem.

Transportation: If you travel by air, with taxis or with a car that is not your own, (friends and family, rental, etc.) manual wheelchairs are simpler to move and load.
Breakdown problem: a manual wheelchair can be pushed in emergency a powerchair not so much.

I as a spastic have both and I LOVE my powerchairs!

[Burgerman]

If you travel by air, with taxis or with a car that is not your own, (friends and family, rental, etc.) manual wheelchairs are simpler to move and load.

Cant even transfer into a manual chair now. The wheel is in my way. And so only true if you can walk a bit maybe.

[biscuit]

I had to look up acronym. And glossary!

[CPguy]

@ Burgerman: True, as I can walk about 30 m with 2 crutches. I am a cheater!

[ex-Gooserider]

Don't konow the UK system, but I'd assume there is an appeal process to fight the decision turning Scooterman down.... In the US it is often the case that you will get turned down at least once and need to fight through the appeals to get approved, but persistence will get you what you need.

I use both my power and manual chairs, and don't have any trouble transferring in and out of either, between them, or other stuff, though I sometimes need a slide board....

By choice I use the power chair, but if my van breaks down, and I have to be driven in other vehicles, it isn't possible to load the power chair, but is possible to load the manual.

I have friends / family that live in places that aren't workable with the power chair, but are with the manual, so I drive the van (in my power chair) to their place, and transfer to the manual to go inside and visit (one friend has a small apartment, I can get into her bathroom in the manual, but not in the power chair, etc...) Same deal with outdoor climbing where I need volunteers to get me and the chair to the start of the route - it isn't that bad for them to carry me in the manual, no way would they be able to do it in the power chair....

It is tight enough in our house that while I CAN get around in the power chair, it is usually easier in the manual, especially if I'm going to bed and the GF needs to move the chair with me not in it - MUCH easier in the manual...

So I have use cases for both, but the manual is definitely the second choice...

ex-Gooserider