Personal Wheelchair Budgets

[terry2]

Personal Wheelchair Budgets nationwide UK as of 2 December 2019 thanks to Burgerman. I owe you a pint, mate.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/personal-health-budgets/personal-wheelchair-budgets/

LC

Whoa!
Don't get too exited just yet. Yes, thanks are definitely due to BM - BUT ----- See this extract:

Direct payment:
This is where the budget holder holds the money in a bank account or an equivalent account, and takes responsibility for arranging the care and support, in line with the agreed personalised care and support plan.
Direct payments are currently not routinely available as an option for managing a standalone personal wheelchair budget. NHS England and the Department of Health and Social Care are currently reviewing existing regulations to establish whether additional contributions are permissible under the Direct Payments in Healthcare Regulations.

Therefore where a direct payment is requested it would either need to meet the whole cost of the wheelchair (which may be appropriate as part of an NHS Continuing Healthcare package), or be part of an integrated package of care and clearly able to demonstrate the health and wellbeing outcome which required a contribution via a separately commissioned service.

That's how they did mine.

I had to put £4,200 of my own money.

Thanks BM

[duke1]

there delivering tinas chair on the 20th dec ive yet to find out if she allowed the centre footplate but atleast she will have tidy chair that wont get thrown out of the hospital or make mud trails round the shops!though and can see she is going to hate being 4mph pretty damn quick! so cant see it used for much but will help most indoors as her mobility is more limited everyday,by the time the new one is due for swap they should have the pwb sorted,maybe! peace

[terry2]

Got mine coming tomorrow morning

Looking at the PDF for the R-Net 120 controller. Mine comes with a dongle that fits in the R-Net controller to make it faster!.

[Burgerman]

Explain that last sentence in detail please.

What normally happens with wcs is that they order a 4mph chair. That means 2 pole motors with 4mph gearing. And a 70/80 amp controller typically. If its cheaper to sent the 90A version (because it doesent need a seperate seating actuator, a basic one id built in) they use that.

Now if its got a 120A and 6mph 4 pole motors, or a 90A with the same, then you cannot get a 4mph 4 pole. So thats the only case where having a PROGRAMMING DONGLE (Dealer) will MAYBE allow you to speed it back up to 6mph because they had to get 6mph motors... Depending which parameters they changed to make it 4mph.

So,
Are they supplying the dongle?
Which motors?
Which controller?
Which power otions?
Does it have lights?

[terry2]

Explain that last sentence in detail please.

What normally happens with wcs is that they order a 4mph chair. That means 2 pole motors with 4mph gearing. And a 70/80 amp controller typically. If its cheaper to sent the 90A version (because it doesent need a seperate seating actuator, a basic one id built in) they use that.

Now if its got a 120A and 6mph 4 pole motors, or a 90A with the same, then you cannot get a 4mph 4 pole. So thats the only case where having a PROGRAMMING DONGLE (Dealer) will MAYBE allow you to speed it back up to 6mph because they had to get 6mph motors... Depending which parameters they changed to make it 4mph.

So,
Are they supplying the dongle?
Which motors?
Which controller?
Which power otions?
Does it have lights?

It's 120 amp version with 8 mph motors. Yes it's already installed. Yes it comes standard with lights.
In the Meyra SA-2322 service manual.

"On the wheelchair version with max speed of 15kmh.
A bridge is located in the "Inhibit(socket 5) of the power moduale that linmets speed to 12kmh"

[Burgerman]

My brain failed. I as thinking WCS were supplying a chair.

You could just lave that link. And disable the inhibit in programming.

[terry2]

My brain failed. I as thinking WCS were supplying a chair.

You could just lave that link. And disable the inhibit in programming.

It came free with the chair and saves me money buying a R-Net programmer. So win win

[Burgerman]

Not really as it will steer like a pig on stilts.

[terry2]

Not really as it will steer like a pig on stilts.

Not when me and guy have finished setting up it won't
I will taking it around the block a few times to get it right.

[terry2]

Well the beast has come and the steering sorted.
It's much bigger than I thought. Front tires are 5.30 X 4.50-6

[Burgerman]

Yes ist more scooter than powerchair. And heavy with big batteries, and because it doesent steer with wheelchair type tank steer, but drives and steers as a scooter albeit rear steer, it does more miles per Ah. But rubbish indoors.

[duke1]

hi all well after wcs supplying an entirely different chair to my tina and having had a few days to try it out we have concluded whomever it is that decides which chair is suitable for a given person is completely and utterly stupid! not only is it a midwheel drive (the demo chair was rear drive) but is nearly double the length with those stupid great caster hanging miles out the back and the sticking out footrests on the front,of which she only can use 1 as the chair is far to tall and seat cannot be made any lower so she has to tip toe to even get her bum in the seat which causes her pain now she is not one to complain and says shes grateful for having a new chair regardless and would be quiet and lump it,is it wrong of me to want to ring them up tell them to come and take the chair back as it is not suitable and bring the rear wheel drive version as shown in first place?she thinks if i complain she be put to the back of the list or blackballed but to me it is so obviously not right for her its doing my head in,do i kick up a fuss?
i certainly want to ask some questions about how the fuck they chose such a bad choice for tina!peace all

[Burgerman]

is it wrong of me to want to ring them up tell them to come and take the chair back as it is not suitable and bring the rear wheel drive version as shown in first place?

Of couse not. How do you suppose this personal budget thing began. I aranged a meeting or two to show just how clueless they are.

she thinks if i complain she be put to the back of the list or blackballed but to me it is so obviously not right for her its doing my head in,do i kick up a fuss?
i certainly want to ask some questions about how the fuck they chose such a bad choice for tina!peace all

Yes.
And they wont be able to answer you. They know 1% of whats needed about powerchairs. They have all been on some manufacturers day course on seating though... So thats what they concentrate on. Then they 'assess' you. Then they give you the same chair they give everyone else.

[Irving]

If the footrests are too far away they've not been set up right. Sounds to me like they've delivered someone else's chair. Presumably they took measurements so they could set it up correctly? Of course you should complain, Tina has a right to get what she's entitled to...

[duke1]

is it wrong of me to want to ring them up tell them to come and take the chair back as it is not suitable and bring the rear wheel drive version as shown in first place?

Of couse not. How do you suppose this personal budget thing began. I aranged a meeting or two to show just how clueless they are.

she thinks if i complain she be put to the back of the list or blackballed but to me it is so obviously not right for her its doing my head in,do i kick up a fuss?
i certainly want to ask some questions about how the fuck they chose such a bad choice for tina!peace all

Yes.
And they wont be able to answer you. They know 1% of whats needed about powerchairs. They have all been on some manufacturers day course on seating though... So thats what they concentrate on. Then they 'assess' you. Then they give you the same chair they give everyone else.

hi bm surely being able to reach the seat without either tip toeing and hurting her would be a rather important issue? only way i see this chair working would be a sturdy centre footplate on which she can stand to mount the seat but even then it is miles to long,width is good but it sticks out wherever its parked and those rear casters are perfect for punching holes in doors and walls! tbh i dont think she could stop me complaining!

[Burgerman]

The whole "assessement" is a joke. They couldnt assess a banana. They know nothing. They are middle aged women that have a certificate in "OT' at very best. The ony person you can find at WCS with ANY sense at all is the guy you never see doing the spannering. And he is generally used to delivering cushions or replacing bits on manual chairs.

Its all a big joke. Thats why I do my own highly detailed, factual self assessements. And then be sure they all have a copy to study long before they turn up.

[duke1]

The whole "assessement" is a joke. They couldnt assess a banana. They know nothing. They are middle aged women that have a certificate in "OT' at very best. The ony person you can find at WCS with ANY sense at all is the guy you never see doing the spannering. And he is generally used to delivering cushions or replacing bits on manual chairs.

Its all a big joke. Thats why I do my own highly detailed, factual self assessements. And then be sure they all have a copy to study long before they turn up.

i did an assessment and i would bet it went straight in a bin as not one thing i told them she needs was right!
well i rang them and am awaiting the therapist (lol) to call me back but i told them they need to collect this one and take it away and bring what they showed her in the first place though not perfect by any means it was far more suitable than the thing they delivered,its about 5-6 inches longer than either of tinas other chairs and much harder to manouvere due to the extra casters,what where they thinking???

[Burgerman]

They dont think. They just do the thing that they did last time. Everyone gets the same chair. And "everyone" knows that mid drive has a better turning circle and is better indoors. Even though they are not. Turning circle or turning radius is not important. Length is though! So centre footrest, rear drive, seat moved back is the shortest. And works better outdoors too. But they "know" that mid drive is better...

The reality is that you cant expect a couple of middle aged houswives to assess a mechanical device. They simply dont get it. They know about seating. At least they know what the manufacturers rep said on the last training (sales) day. Youare wasing your time.

When they cotact you go through your assessement point by point. And show why the thing they sent is useless. And why they are clueless. Dont be polite. Do it in front of their bosses and the hospital administrator. Its time to point out their incompetance, explain why the NHS and its socialist structure is useless and should be privatised. And watch them squirm. Watch out for the excuses - there will be many. Usually they will blame anyone but themselves, or the "system" or their inadequate finances. Well the NHS wastes most of its money. Thats why I now have 3 (unwanted) powerd patient lifts, that I tried to refuse, and there is still people dying in corridors or cant get treatment inside NINE HOURS in Acc and Emergency. Average wait time is 13hours!!! They are all useless.. WCS is unfit for purpose.

[rover220]

if your local area provides sunrise chairs then you can almost bet your life you will get a mwd, sunrise seem to think this is the only viable option and i guess that rubs off on the wcs that they partner with.

[duke1]

if your local area provides sunrise chairs then you can almost bet your life you will get a mwd, sunrise seem to think this is the only viable option and i guess that rubs off on the wcs that they partner with.

hi rover its an invacare xtr2 midwheel drive but the demo chair they showed in first place was rear drive xtr2 and she liked that and i could move seat back and make her a centre footplate then so im hoping they just swap it for the rwd version,numpties indeed.peace

[Burgerman]

I think that xtr2 is just a rear drive chair. Thats not what you have. Someone else likely has yours. They really dont know the diffence.Their incompetance knows no bounds. They likely delivered the wrong one. And next will blame either the supplier, delivery driver or someone else. It is never their fault. They always accept no responsibility for anything, they have armies of departments and layers of paper pushers to blame. Socialism 101.

Can it hit a doorway?

[rover220]

you must mean a tdx sp2 then? no such thing as an xtr mwd. xtr should also now be branded bora. if they give you an xtr2 its either old stock or its been used

[duke1]

I think that xtr2 is just a rear drive chair. Thats not what you have. Someone else likely has yours. They really dont know the diffence.Their incompetance knows no bounds. They likely delivered the wrong one. And next will blame either the supplier, delivery driver or someone else. It is never their fault. They always accept no responsibility for anything, they have armies of departments and layers of paper pushers to blame. Socialism 101.

Can it hit a doorway?

it says xtr2 on it and looking at the site they do 3 front mid and rear drive all called xtr2,stupid. they do an hd version which looks better and has 4 pole motors but still has the linx crap system,it steers ok slowly at full speed its very slow to react and a full about turn takes an age to straighten up again! compared with the other 2 chairs which have the pg drives system and your settings are worlds apart.
her perfect seat height is 20 inches this is pushing 23 and that 3 is what hurts her i was tempted to ask if a childs chair was anymore sensible height but tina got cross at that idea!
i am going to get it sorted either a chair thats somewhere near right or if they cannot do that then i will insist on a pwb even though they havent even begun it yet as they was meant to last year,lazy socialists!
i emailed another copy of the assessment i did and see what happens,muppets.

[Burgerman]

at full speed its very slow to react and a full about turn takes an age to straighten up again!

Thats called (4 settings)
TURN ACCELERATION
MIN TURN ACCELERATION
TURN DECELERATION
MIN TURN DECELERATION

At least on PG stuff. On dynamic there will be the same settings, that are walled, (turn acceleration scaler) with different but similar names. Even set to max, the turn acc/dec is still far too slow. More hovercraft than scalpel.

Set them all to 100. And if they still are too slow , increase turn acceleration scaler. That all requires BETTER than OEM on the old dynamic stuff, (service level) not sure what it will need on their new one. But you likely wont get it any possible way... So all chairs with that controller are ruled out for me as a matter of course.

[rover220]

Link to the page of what you have, there is no mwd xtr that I can think of.

[steves1977uk]

Duke, are you sure it's a XTR2? The Invacare website shows it as a RWD chair only... https://www.invacare.co.uk/invacare-spe ... ma-60boren

Steve

[Irving]

Xtr2/Bora is NHS WCS standard chair, replacement for the Spectra and I've only ever seen RWD. We have 100s in the spinal unit. The TDX2 is WCS standard MWD chair and much less common, at least it is so here.

[duke1]

Xtr2/Bora is NHS WCS standard chair, replacement for the Spectra and I've only ever seen RWD. We have 100s in the spinal unit. The TDX2 is WCS standard MWD chair and much less common, at least it is so here.

you are correct it seems someone has attached wrong labels and the stickers on plastics say xtr2 and main id label says tdx2,either way its wrong and due to being far to tall a seat for such a short lady is going back and if they cant sort suitable other chair than thats all the excuse i need for a personal wheelchair budget,it was sort of set up for her but i was out when it came or would have sent them back there and then!cheers all

[steves1977uk]

That goes to show how incompetent the people at WCS really are if they can't identify the correct plastic covers for the powerchairs they buy!

Steve

[Burgerman]

Their incompetence, and worse, inability to correctly asses and decide what chair is best, or even identify one, knows no bounds. But I already told everyone this for 20 years. Clueless doesent even begin to describe their ignorance. They simply employ the wrong people, and are organised in the same way as any useless socialist organisation.

I appologise to anyone, if they exist, that works for WCS if this doesent describe them. Unlikely from my experience over 2 decades+ a few years. They cant even call you back. They never provide any answers. They cannot answer a question. They are frankly unfit for purpose. I showed this very clearly in front of the health department reps, and embarassed the hell out of them 13 years ago which is how the wheelchair budgets trial began.