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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Burgerman » 06 Nov 2018, 21:13

Someone did a Freedom Of Information request about my local WCS last year. The reply showed their total spend divided by number of users for the last 5 years divided out at £1800 each user. That included purchasing chairs, adaptions, AND maintenance.


You failed to include the largest costs of all. Administration, pay, holidays, meetings, training jollies (days off at the manufacturers with cake), buildings, vehicles, tools, computers, pensions, insurance, liability claims, VAT etc etc. The real money per user is around 1/4 of that. But the vast majority are manual chairs, and temporary chairs, and walking sticks, and chairs in old people homes, etc. And WASTE. I have a pile of parts here that they ordered incorrectly from 97. I had a parts PDF with serial order numbers. They would never accept those. They sent an "expert" at great expense to check it out here at my house instead, who always cocked it up. Every last time. Do they want those parts back? No. They are socialists. They dont care. Its not their money or time is it?
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby CPguy » 13 Nov 2018, 10:46

Burgerman mentioned "bed baths" here. How do they work please?
My rides:
1 BM2/BM3 with 120 A R-Net and Odessey (Lithium in 2016)
1 SKS Swiss VIVA (spare, as only NF22 size battery)
2 Progeo YOGA (for traveling)
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby foghornleghorn » 13 Nov 2018, 11:10

It's not a piece of equipment like an actual bath. Just means being wiped over with a flannel while laying in bed.
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Burgerman » 13 Nov 2018, 11:35

Soapy water, bowl, and a sponge/mitt and a high speed carer for the bits I cant do. Then clean water mitt. Then towel.

End to end takes less time than transferring into a shower chair. Never mind the washing, showering, and transferring back... far less effort. Far less time. Less skin damage issues was the reason I started doing this. Less discomfort from the spasm fight too. And the shower room or wet room stays dry and clean so less time wasted cleaning or replacing when its all worn out. And no space wasting shower chair or rust!

When redoing my wet room, I just turned it into a normal toilet/and a wall of cupboard storage space and a worktop with a hand basin to wash/teeth etc. No more a wet room. A normal en-suite.

So I gave up doing the wet room thing years ago. Its just not needed. :fencing
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby CPguy » 13 Nov 2018, 16:12

Interesting. Thank you for the replies.

I fully understand why you do not like showers. I prefer soaking in a bath tub with warm water. It reduces my spasms nicely.
My rides:
1 BM2/BM3 with 120 A R-Net and Odessey (Lithium in 2016)
1 SKS Swiss VIVA (spare, as only NF22 size battery)
2 Progeo YOGA (for traveling)
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby steves1977uk » 16 Nov 2018, 12:03

Well well well, what a surprise... :roll: Here's a snippet from the e-mail I got today from WCS...

Hello Steve,

Following my last email Norwich Wheelchair Assessment Service (working on behalf of West Norfolk CCG) have carefully considered your request and have contacted other Wheelchair services via the National Wheelchair Manager’s Forum. The response from the forum has confirmed that unfortunately Personal Wheelchair Budgets cannot be used for Class 3 vehicles which is the category of vehicle an 8mph chair would come under.


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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Burgerman » 16 Nov 2018, 12:50

Yes. They assess you for a 4mph chair. I paid the difference. Wcs always do this. Except when they dont!
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby expresso » 17 Nov 2018, 01:39

whow thats crazy - worse than here - we at least can get a group 3 chair - 6.5 if taking a quickie chair - or else 6 -
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Burgerman » 17 Nov 2018, 03:42

You can here if you are organised. They paid for a special back, basically to cover the cost difference. They also understood the need for 4 pole motors, which meant 6mph, which was why they did that. Its all about explaining your needs and agreeing a solution/price.
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby expresso » 17 Nov 2018, 03:51

anything slower than 6 is not for me or most of us - some of us cant go fast or need to since they even feel comfortable and too fast for them - so thats different but most are 6 anyway and they are just programmed for that user - if they see you cant handle it- forget it - it varies by user and also insurance of course - but 6 is what 99% get with any insurance
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Burgerman » 17 Nov 2018, 04:01

For most, inc me, 6mph is by far the best option. I wouldn't have 8mph if it was offered for free. Because I understand the difference it makes to proper control and torque, as well as the range reduction. Its a step too far.

You would require a 140 to 150A controller that doesn't exist, heavier cables, and batteries that were around 20% bigger to get the same range and control as a 6mph 4 pole chair. I have tested this stuff back to back, and measured the differences. I understand the compromise all too well. 8MPH? Or more? No thanks!

Its all very well saying you want or need it and cant manage with less. But the downsides mean its still a worse option if you value control. If your chair is programmed like most are, and not instant. Then you probably dont feel the difference as distinctly and cant actually feel this or easily tell. But if it is, its very obvious. In an 8mph chair I cant accurately hit a doorway without slowing unless already lined up. Its just not predictable or direct enough.
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby expresso » 17 Nov 2018, 04:18

well i can say this - and like you - whats good for one is not always the same for others - i can do very well with 8 mph chair and even a 10 - seems fine to me

my 8 chair is very slow compared to my 646 chair now - the 646 got its speed from the lithium and higher volts - so that was good - only the tires in the rear are a bit larger also - but its very fast - and snappy etc, - cant complain but i am 165 lbs - so if hyou are heavier with a heavier chair - then i agree with you

i think 10 is an ideal speed for a lighter person and avg chair - not heavy chair - 8.5 is the 646 is should be good for most

yes i understand that the slower 6 chair will be much better in everything else - range - etc, maybe one day i will slow down - not ready yet

if i had no choice i would take the 6.5 chair and then lithium tires and motor volts bring it to about 8 - that would be a good balance then - still feel slow to me but not crawling slow
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Burgerman » 17 Nov 2018, 04:32

Well when I say 6mph I mean that is about 7.5 to 8 anyway with lithium, bigger tyres etc with no loss of torque caused by gearing.
As such my 16mph chair has at least as much torque as my 6mph chairs. Because its using 150A per channel. And because instead of taller 16mph gearing we keep the same slow gearing, and run on 45V. That thing has a mountain of power. And can lift the front wheels at will at 8mph with a little extra stick. Same with turning. Its instant regardless of speed. Also because of lennys script...

But a normal lead 8mph chair is for me, marginally faster in straight lines. But with acceleration set to 100, it still wont allow controlled safe wheelies etc, you can "feel" the power sag as you gun it. And come back as you stop torturing it. That may happen over just .3of a second but it matters. Like an elastic band. While accelerating hard you lose steering accuracy while wheeliing and end up pointing say 10 degrees in the wrong direction to what you expect. And so crappy to control and so frustratingly inaccurate and therefore slower where its in enclosed areas, doors, when driving like a nut as I do... Simply because it hasn't the control to be fast. I would hit things, and do so because the chair did not exactly follow the stick as if directly connected to the wheels. A split second of sluggish response may mean a break my feet on a door frame or hit someone. No use to me if it doesn't go where I say when I say...
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby expresso » 17 Nov 2018, 04:40

ok i see now - so really 8 after the tweaks - i can live with that also - when the time comes for me to take it a bit easy -

what your talking about is what i am experiencing with my bounder more or less - i went too high gearing and unless its just flat out riding - its sluggish on other things -

i am lighter than you - but the extra weight of the chair brings it right where you are about and its too much for it - aside from the bounder

my quickies are very light compared to it - and slower speeds 8.5 and 10 - and i feel fine there. i will end up bringing it down to 10 i am sure after i have a little fun flat out first -
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Lord Chatterley » 24 Apr 2019, 20:24

Burgerman wrote:
Someone did a Freedom Of Information request about my local WCS last year. The reply showed their total spend divided by number of users for the last 5 years divided out at £1800 each user. That included purchasing chairs, adaptions, AND maintenance.


You failed to include the largest costs of all. Administration, pay, holidays, meetings, training jollies (days off at the manufacturers with cake), buildings, vehicles, tools, computers, pensions, insurance, liability claims, VAT etc etc. The real money per user is around 1/4 of that. But the vast majority are manual chairs, and temporary chairs, and walking sticks, and chairs in old people homes, etc. And WASTE. I have a pile of parts here that they ordered incorrectly from 97. I had a parts PDF with serial order numbers. They would never accept those. They sent an "expert" at great expense to check it out here at my house instead, who always cocked it up. Every last time. Do they want those parts back? No. They are socialists. They dont care. Its not their money or time is it?


So bloody true. :clap :clap :clap :clap

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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Burgerman » 25 Apr 2019, 01:33

I was very serious. I would bet the real spend per user is quarter of the overall cost. Its not just WCS though, its all of the NHS.

I called up the socialistic NHS 'home loans' department. For a replacement sling, to be used on my never used, patient hoist. Its quite old, looks like new and lives in a carpeted heated garage. I want it only for that freak event in case of a fall. Its hydraulic, and is the same as an engine hoist. Remember that I only wanted a nylon sling. They are £60 on ebay, come in 3 sizes. Tiny, Average Human, Fat Bastard. By Invacare. I need the FB one...

So they turn up to ASSESS me 2 car loads... I already said what I need. They cant just supply a replacement as that wouldbe cheap and efficient. Oh no. First they have to waste some money to justify their existence. So they measure me across the shoulders. I could have told them that on the phone. Thats all they did. But no it takes 3 of them in 2 cars. They then went to see the hoist. Its not electric. Its as new. Its never been used. They freak out as its got a date on it, and its 12 years old. So now we have to have it inspected by an engineer. I AM an engineer, and its fine. Who decides that since they sell hoists to the NHS, obviously I need an new electric one. Several heated arguments later (I dont need or want an electric one because it wont work in 7 years time when I MIGHT need it to do so). I am assured that this wont be a problem because an engineer will test it and examine it every 3 months. So long story short, to get the sling, I have no choice.

After delivery they insist it has to be demonstrated. So more meetings and groups of people arrive after another few weeks. 2 cars. Still no sling... So cant demonstate...
When I finally get a sling (ebay delivered 24 hours) I test it alone. Its too small it cant lift me into a chair as the thing is too short, hits the footplate. Or high enough to lift me off the bed... So much for assessements and measuring everything! I call them and tell them.

So next. Different person on phone. Another bigger lift arrives about 3 weeks later without any assessements. So I now have THREE. And they wont take any of them back. I have little need of 1. And I didnt want anew one to begin with. I now have 2 visits every 3 months on contract to have them both inspected... And I eBayed the oldest hydraulic one to get rid. So I have TWO remaining, at a cost of 2k each, and I tried to refuse both. They will likely never be used. Meanwhile, still no sling from them! And all this while some are refused a bed due to lack of staff/money and some dying in corridoors or refused drugs due to cost. I could relate many similar things. You really couldnt make it up.

To be this inefficient takes socialism. On the one hand they are stupidly over generous. Even when I insist that I neither want or need (two) new electric patient hoists. On the other they are pleading poverty on the left wing TV media day after day. No business could ever run this way. Or should I say not for long!!!
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby duke1 » 26 Apr 2019, 22:27

theres now far more about politics than wheelchair budgets on this thread whilst i get folk have strong views i do not think it helps when reading this to learn more about pwb,i moderate on another forum and politics or religion are the 2 most trouble causing subjects and if i had my way talk of such would be banned on forum as it does exactly what it has in this thread,ie fill it with irrelevant info!
on subject i have tried to apply for the pwb and see what happens as tina has never had anything from wcs other than a huge black beast of a thing i was meant to push her in and was far to heavy and never got used its behind my shed in the scrap pile now as they would not take it back or replace it so i bought her first powerchair but if you get it does it affect p.i.p i wonder?
and how do i deal with the visit to assess as tina has her chair i rebuilt for outdoors which is far more suitable than anything we could get from wcs would it mean they say no because you got one allready (though it is nearly 30 years old)?any advice people?peace cheers
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby steves1977uk » 26 Apr 2019, 23:00

I was very serious. I would bet the real spend per user is quarter of the overall cost. Its not just WCS though, its all of the NHS.

I called up the socialistic NHS 'home loans' department. For a replacement sling, to be used on my never used, patient hoist. Its quite old, looks like new and lives in a carpeted heated garage. I want it only for that freak event in case of a fall. Its hydraulic, and is the same as an engine hoist. Remember that I only wanted a nylon sling. They are £60 on ebay, come in 3 sizes. Tiny, Average Human, Fat Bastard. By Invacare. I need the FB one...

So they turn up to ASSESS me 2 car loads... I already said what I need. They cant just supply a replacement as that wouldbe cheap and efficient. Oh no. First they have to waste some money to justify their existence. So they measure me across the shoulders. I could have told them that on the phone. Thats all they did. But no it takes 3 of them in 2 cars. They then went to see the hoist. Its not electric. Its as new. Its never been used. They freak out as its got a date on it, and its 12 years old. So now we have to have it inspected by an engineer. I AM an engineer, and its fine. Who decides that since they sell hoists to the NHS, obviously I need an new electric one. Several heated arguments later (I dont need or want an electric one because it wont work in 7 years time when I MIGHT need it to do so). I am assured that this wont be a problem because an engineer will test it and examine it every 3 months. So long story short, to get the sling, I have no choice.

After delivery they insist it has to be demonstrated. So more meetings and groups of people arrive after another few weeks. 2 cars. Still no sling... So cant demonstate...
When I finally get a sling (ebay delivered 24 hours) I test it alone. Its too small it cant lift me into a chair as the thing is too short, hits the footplate. Or high enough to lift me off the bed... So much for assessements and measuring everything! I call them and tell them.

So next. Different person on phone. Another bigger lift arrives about 3 weeks later without any assessements. So I now have THREE. And they wont take any of them back. I have little need of 1. And I didnt want anew one to begin with. I now have 2 visits every 3 months on contract to have them both inspected... And I eBayed the oldest hydraulic one to get rid. So I have TWO remaining, at a cost of 2k each, and I tried to refuse both. They will likely never be used. Meanwhile, still no sling from them! And all this while some are refused a bed due to lack of staff/money and some dying in corridoors or refused drugs due to cost. I could relate many similar things. You really couldnt make it up.

To be this inefficient takes socialism. On the one hand they are stupidly over generous. Even when I insist that I neither want or need (two) new electric patient hoists. On the other they are pleading poverty on the left wing TV media day after day. No business could ever run this way. Or should I say not for long!!!


Sounds very familar to me as well BM. Think I posted before about hassles with slings, nothing can be ever simple with the NHS/WCS! czy :cussing

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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Mechniki » 27 Apr 2019, 00:27

duke1 wrote:theres now far more about politics than wheelchair budgets on this thread whilst i get folk have strong views i do not think it helps when reading this to learn more about pwb,i moderate on another forum and politics or religion are the 2 most trouble causing subjects and if i had my way talk of such would be banned on forum as it does exactly what it has in this thread,ie fill it with irrelevant info!
on subject i have tried to apply for the pwb and see what happens as tina has never had anything from wcs other than a huge black beast of a thing i was meant to push her in and was far to heavy and never got used its behind my shed in the scrap pile now as they would not take it back or replace it so i bought her first powerchair but if you get it does it affect p.i.p i wonder?
and how do i deal with the visit to assess as tina has her chair i rebuilt for outdoors which is far more suitable than anything we could get from wcs would it mean they say no because you got one allready (though it is nearly 30 years old)?any advice people?peace cheers

NO. NHS wheelchairs technically have a 5 year life at least that is my understanding. So they should replace the chair, however they don't do proper outdoor chairs. Like BM says you have to pay the difference for something better. As for a manual chair their life is massive, my NHS manual chair for transport is over 15 years old. If it has been a long time though since their visit, you will need a re-assessment and that can take up to 2 years of waiting.
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Burgerman » 27 Apr 2019, 01:01

>>>NO. NHS wheelchairs technically have a 5 year life at least that is my understanding.


They replace mine every 3 because I USE them.

>>>So they should replace the chair, however they don't do proper outdoor chairs. Like BM says you have to pay the difference for something better. As for a manual chair their life is massive, my NHS manual chair for transport is over 15 years old. If it has been a long time though since their visit, you will need a re-assessment and that can take up to 2 years of waiting.


They told me 18 months. I assessed myself and ordered a chair, sent them the assessement and the bill. They came and assessed me in around 9 days with a group of 3 of them. Non had a clue. They paid me eveything other than the upgrade for the 6mph I chose. The difference amounted to a couple of hundred pounds. And they threw in a seat back to help cover that. But they sent me a cheque based on the price THEY pay, so basically 66% of the retail cost. But if you organize yourself you can get almost that back as a discount. They also covered an amount for service and repairs, and a seat cushion at around 400 in my case.

It all depends on your assessed needs. Beat them to it and write your own assessement and send copies to every part of the hospital administration and the WCS yourself. With the bill. Explaining why you were not in a position to wait while they bothered. I had to do this several times to get any movement from them. And yes politics. Why do you think its this hard? Socialist medicine. Nobody cares about anything other than getting paid, and meetings, coffee, rules, paperwork, and pushing responsibility further along an endless chain. Dont let them.

i have tried to apply for the pwb and see what happens as tina has never had anything from wcs other than a huge black beast of a thing i was meant to push her in and was far to heavy and never got used its behind my shed in the scrap pile now as they would not take it back or replace it so i bought her first powerchair but if you get it does it affect p.i.p i wonder?


It doesent. Neither does a care budget. Same thing.
But that 'tried to apply' wont get you far. You have to FIGHT them. They will ignore you, and hope it goes away. Or tell you complete bullshit to stop you getting any further. They will make up a set of eules that prevent you on the fly. They will do anything possible to keep you from their money, any kind of action, and especially a powerchair budget. Do not ask, TELL them. Again, this IS political! Thats the reason you will need to fight them for your rights. Socialistic medicine doesnt care. It goes out of its way to avoid actually doing ANYTHING that means leaving that warm office. Try getting them to call you back on a phone! Its a joke.
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Mechniki » 27 Apr 2019, 10:59

Duke
virgincare.co.uk
cover WCS for my area, assuming Southeast of England, based in Woking

BurgerMan you are talking about something similar to Voucher Scheme where the NHS team give you appropriate funds towards a wheelchair, a grant of sorts, which will allow a change of wheelchair every 3 years. I myself am on my 3rd NHS Electric wheelchair through their service since 2015, didn't want the voucher scheme as I was struggling to cover extra's costs. Still don't have a voucher scheme wheelchair, and I do mostly my own repairs now as AJM Healthcare (wheelchair engineers) are absolute w4nkers, mind you as polite as the NHS Engineers are, they never do as asked. I been waiting over 2 year's for them to come and reprogram the chair, and got so fed up with waiting I got my solicitors involved to act as advocates and the engineers promised to reprogram the chair and get it up to my specs (that was July last year) it's still not done. I know why they don't want to re-program it, the motors are rated at 10KPH. But they have it set at 6KPH and I want 6.4KPH (4mph) so it is the same speed as my ROMA.
So I just want to keep timings to places from my home the same. It takes 25minutes in the ROMA to get to my Doctors, it takes 40minutes in the Invacare
the most annoying thing is my assessment had me down for a Storm 4 or a Quickie Salsa M2. The WCS Engineer (yup Wayne) said that had reliability issues with the quickie so it was removed from options. But where i'm sitting the Invacare is just the same reliability wise, they haven't even let me try the Storm 4 - so in that regard the vouchers scheme or part buy are the best options. because you can get sorted quickly by paying for your own assessment. An assessment can be anywhere between £15 to £75. If I could afford a brand new part buy wheelchair I would seriously consider the "8 MPH Meyra Optimus 2".
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby steves1977uk » 27 Apr 2019, 11:19

I wonder if that's why the WCS in Norwich only offer Invacare chairs, because of reliability issues with Sunrise Medical ones? :eh: Although when I was assessed by Kings Lynn WCS, they were going to give me a Salsa R2! So work that one out! czy :?

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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby wheelie junkie » 27 Apr 2019, 11:46

PWB does not affect PIP, they are totally separate and have different assessments. Typically WCS will supply a chair more suitable indoors, when I complained I was told that they supply for the majority of users who mainly use them indoors. They usually supply a 4mph chair but no guarantee it'll do that, when I got my R Net dongle and hooked it up to the NHS chair max speed was set to 50%. As BM says do your own assessment, write down what you need in a chair then discuss with them. I ended up buying my own and keep the Salsa R2 as backup. I'll be requesting a replacement at 5 years and will push for something more suitable but they only offer a choice of Salsa or XTR and I won't be in a position to add my own money to a PWB.
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Burgerman » 27 Apr 2019, 12:37

They have to offer whatever fits your clinically assessed needs. But they know sod all about chairs. They cannot push one brand over another if it does not suit your needs. Thats where your OWN assessements and deep understanding of chairs helps you. They cant argue you dont need a 120A controller, or 4 pole motors if you do. They once tried that trick on me so I let them provide a demo chair. Then I showed them why that wont work.

No proper control, no zero turn torque, and complete refusal to get me up the ramp and into the chair over the road. So they were EDUCATED a little. When I showed them my BM2 chair that could do all that with total ease and full accurate control.

At this point they started actually reading my own personal assessement all 6 pages of it, in detail. They understood 10% of it. In the end they decided that its easier to agree, and send me a cheque every 3 years after an assessement that amounts to agreeing with me.

Been happening for many years now. On the 3rd cheque. And now 60 bar a few days.

I am the JOHN who builds his own chairs. The one that started the whole wheelchair budget thing from the beginning due to refusing to accept their bullshit. And just doing my own thing regardless, and taking the p a little...

I was told that they supply for the majority of users who mainly use them indoors.

More bullshit. MOST users leave the house, and a 4mph chair with no power or lights or enough speed to safely cross a junction or a car park is a dangerous liability.

Take non of their crap.
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby wheelie junkie » 27 Apr 2019, 13:14

Clinically assessed needs but not social needs so if a chair is the correct size, cushioning and positioning it fits your clinical needs so they fulfil their obligations, you'll have to fight to get what you want for an outdoor or different chair. Go prepared for a fight as they don't seem to understand that we live in our chairs and that involves more than sitting watching TV 12 hours a day. When my next chair is due I'll go to the meeting in my new chair with wider tyres, central footplate, lifep04 batteries, 6mph and other mods so they can see what I need.Save their budget on power recline or attendant control and put it into things that I want like 4 pole motor and 120A controller.
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby Burgerman » 27 Apr 2019, 15:20

Clinically assessed needs but not social needs so if a chair is the correct size, cushioning and positioning it fits your clinical needs so they fulfil their obligations, you'll have to fight to get what you want for an outdoor or different chair.


nOT CORRECT. tHEY ARE PRIMARILY SUPPOSED TO ASSESS YOU FOR CLINICAL REQUIREMENTS. bUT ARE also supposed to asses you and consider your complete lifestyle, enviroment, needs, wants, and complete holisstic situation. Ask for a official copy of the NHS remit for wheelchair services. And that even includes the way it looks, and your hobbies, interests etc as well as the pub or whatever. I made SURE that they understood that I fly model planes on a grass airfeild and one of my hobbies means photography from strange places. When they dont accept this, point this out to them VERY CLEARLY and include this in your initial adssessement. This is what I mean by making up rules to suit themselves. Read my initial leaflet that THEY GIVE OUT as an example. Dog walking... Build my own. Beach... Etc. Do not let them drive or guide you, or tell you, or make up rules. You tell them!

Go prepared for a fight as they don't seem to understand that we live in our chairs and that involves more than sitting watching TV 12 hours a day. When my next chair is due I'll go to the meeting in my new chair with wider tyres, central footplate, lifep04 batteries, 6mph and other mods so they can see what I need.Save their budget on power recline or attendant control and put it into things that I want like 4 pole motor and 120A controller.


As I did. And was parked in their meeting on the anti tips and the fat tyres sat back at 30 degrees. So as to not require the weight, or the flexi wobbly chassis or cost, or the slowness that 'proper' tilt gives! Accept no bullshit. You have to make sure that your willpower overides their natural socialist attempts to do nothing but make excuses and pass the blame to someone else. Go to the top to begin with. Thats how the PCB started in the first place. I left them with nowhere else to go.
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby terry2 » 04 Jun 2019, 19:39

My Doctor has again put in for a assessment for a power chair.

I have to wait till they send for me.
I would love the voucher so I can get what I want. But I don't know how it works.

Has anyone got any tips for when I go to the centre?
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby steves1977uk » 04 Jun 2019, 21:46

Terry, the voucher scheme should've been phased out last year, but we all know WCS like to cling on to it because they hate change that gives the user (like us lot) more choices!

You'll probably end up assessed for a 4MPH indoor/outdoor chair with 2-pole motors and weedy control system! :fencing You need to put up a fight and say that won't be adequate for outdoor use and will just wear out faster. hanged :roll:

Steve
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby terry2 » 05 Jun 2019, 08:31

steves1977uk wrote:Terry, the voucher scheme should've been phased out last year, but we all know WCS like to cling on to it because they hate change that gives the user (like us lot) more choices!

You'll probably end up assessed for a 4MPH indoor/outdoor chair with 2-pole motors and weedy control system! :fencing You need to put up a fight and say that won't be adequate for outdoor use and will just wear out faster. hanged :roll:

Steve



Thanks Steve.
My doctor thought I was on the voucher system.

Wonder how much they will let me have using the voucher?
Or is it different from person to person?
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Re: Personal Wheelchair Budgets

Postby LROBBINS » 05 Jun 2019, 10:25

I know that Burgerman thinks it's the socialist NHS, but we had to do exactly the same thing to get proper equipment for Rachi with first Aetna and then again with Blue Cross in the U.S. Private, but they too believe in "one size fits all". For Rachi's chair (after our experience with their refusing a low-force switch for her computer) I also wrote a 6-page letter of medical needs and has PT, OT and Orthopedist write supporting letters. That worked. For her voice prosthesis (speech output computer), the first claim was rejected, followed up with another several pages of explanation that it is just as much a prosthesis as is a prosthetic leg, and more so than a glass eye, both of which they'd cover. They then paid it, but as a "charitable exception" and it actually took a Federal lawsuit to get insurance companies (and government programs too) to cover these.

So far, the situation in national-health Italy is much the same for equipment - to get what's really needed sometimes takes a battle. Got her last commercially-made chair with the same tactic of a detailed assessment which I wrote but which was signed by a physiatrist. Rachi (actually Ellen & my backs) does now need a patient lift, but the only one offered by our local health agency is also too short to get her in and out of bed or chair. I could fight this and win, but at this point I'm worn out and more likely to just shell out E6-700 and buy one off Amazon. I already did that for the sling as we needed to try out several different ones (with a borrowed lift) to find one that works for her.
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