Safety First!!! Lol

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Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 10 Feb 2018, 12:31

TA DA! I fitted an extra rear light to my road going scooter. It's the led strip light in the middle. I know it's not a big job compared to what some of you get up to but I was really pleased with. I also fitted a extra light on the front the other year which I think is a cree? I can't remember but it's really bright.
NB: I know a bathroom isn't really the place for keeping a mobility scooter but if I leave it outside in the winter I have to wrestle with a rain cover every I use it and the seat is really cold.
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Burgerman » 10 Feb 2018, 14:39

Well you will be seen... Now lithium. :fencing
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 10 Feb 2018, 14:54

Burgerman wrote:Well you will be seen... Now lithium. :fencing

Funny you should say that cos the 2 x 75Ah generic gel batteries are approx 2 years old and the scooter does several (6-8 miles) trips per week (mainly shopping). When they need replacing I will definitely being reading your articles on lithium and asking questions in this forum. I think equivalent GEL sonnenshein (excusey spelling) would cost me £300+. But I'm assuming lithium would cost quite a bit more, plus I'd need a new charger.
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Burgerman » 10 Feb 2018, 15:09

The sonennschein will be more than 300.

Yes lithium will cost 3x that. And a carger setup. So not cheap.

But 3x the cost will allow 3x the range and about 3x the lifespan.
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 10 Feb 2018, 19:11

Burgerman wrote:The sonennschein will be more than 300.

Yes lithium will cost 3x that. And a carger setup. So not cheap.

But 3x the cost will allow 3x the range and about 3x the lifespan.

Hmmm, I'll wait until nearer the time. The scooter has been really reliable these two past years and I've not had any problems with it. But I wouldn't want to throw good money (lithium conversion) after bad. There's not a lot to the scooter but if say the motor failed say a year after I'd done a lithium conversion can you buy 3rd party motors off the shelf? The manufacturer has a parts manual but I would imagine I'd have to go through a scooter dealer and it would be expensive?
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 10 Feb 2018, 19:14

PS this is the state of the batteries fully charged but disconnected from the charger for about 48hrs. I don't know if it indicates battery health or I need to take a partially discharged voltage reading?
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Burgerman » 10 Feb 2018, 19:23

That tells us they are fully charged to 100 percent. It doesent tell us how tired or the age, condition.
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 11 Feb 2018, 00:43

Burgerman wrote:That tells us they are fully charged to 100 percent. It doesent tell us how tired or the age, condition.

Ah understood, thanks.
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 11 Feb 2018, 01:09

Just for example if I was to do a lithium conversion...

With these cells would I need 8 cells to give 25.6V (8 x 3.2V) multiplied by 6 cells to give 72Ah (6 x 12Ah)

Giving a grand total of 48 cells making a 25.6V 72Ah battery?
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Burgerman » 11 Feb 2018, 01:20

Yes but you dont want a battery the same size. The whole point of lithium is that it possible to fit more Ah into the same physical space. Its more energy dense than lead. And much much lighter. As well as the fact that every Ah takes you about 1.7x as far.

So for eg I have 120Ah in my BM2. In place of its 55 or 70Ah lead.

So if its 70Ah lead battery took me 20 miles, the same amount of lithium 70Ah would take me 1.7x 20. So an xtra 14 miles. Thats 34 miles. But its worked hard meaning its not going to live very long.

But since its possible to fit 120Ah in 5the same space, which makes the battery live a longer life as its not worked hard, then I get also around 55 miles or more. AND a battery that either needs charging half as frequently or that just doesent work as hard. So it lives a very long time. So plan on fitting as many Ah as you can fit.
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 11 Feb 2018, 11:06

Burgerman wrote:Yes but you dont want a battery the same size. The whole point of lithium is that it possible to fit more Ah into the same physical space. Its more energy dense than lead. And much much lighter. As well as the fact that every Ah takes you about 1.7x as far.

So for eg I have 120Ah in my BM2. In place of its 55 or 70Ah lead.

So if its 70Ah lead battery took me 20 miles, the same amount of lithium 70Ah would take me 1.7x 20. So an xtra 14 miles. Thats 34 miles. But its worked hard meaning its not going to live very long.

But since its possible to fit 120Ah in 5the same space, which makes the battery live a longer life as its not worked hard, then I get also around 55 miles or more. AND a battery that either needs charging half as frequently or that just doesent work as hard. So it lives a very long time. So plan on fitting as many Ah as you can fit.

I get it now thank you. Initial outlay and new charger aside it's a good idea.
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 11 Feb 2018, 11:13

The orange plastic side walls? Do you buy a sheet and cut it to size to hold the number of cells you require? Also the copper links to interconnect the cells, I assume you have to buy them separately?
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Burgerman » 11 Feb 2018, 14:59

Theres 78 cells there. Yes the plastic blocks slot together. They are all in 2...

Go to http://www.evassemble.com and check out the headway cells,blocks, bus bars and the square joiners etc!

Here http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?mai ... 69vldv8b65
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby ex-Gooserider » 13 Feb 2018, 04:44

Worth noting that if you do the conversion properly (the way BM says... :clap ) so that you end up with a nicely balancing pack it takes several weeks, so best to get started on the project early, before your existing batteries start to die...

In terms of repairing you existing scooter, it would probably be quite expensive to replace the motor with a new one through the dealer, but often it is possible to by used parts (or even an entire replacement scooter) for pretty short money on ebay or other local sources.

If you size your packs to be about the physical size of the existing batteries in your current scooter, you also have very high odds of being able to simply swap them over into a replacement scooter of similar size since most scooters of a given size / capacity will use the same size batteries.

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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 13 Feb 2018, 12:00

Burgerman wrote:Theres 78 cells there. Yes the plastic blocks slot together. They are all in 2...

Go to http://www.evassemble.com and check out the headway cells,blocks, bus bars and the square joiners etc!

Here http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?mai ... 69vldv8b65

Thank you I have been doing some browsing



ex-Gooserider wrote:Worth noting that if you do the conversion properly (the way BM says... :clap ) so that you end up with a nicely balancing pack it takes several weeks, so best to get started on the project early, before your existing batteries start to die...
I didn't think of that's not a bad idea :thumbup:

ex-Gooserider wrote:In terms of repairing you existing scooter, it would probably be quite expensive to replace the motor with a new one through the dealer, but often it is possible to by used parts (or even an entire replacement scooter) for pretty short money on ebay or other local sources.
On hindsight the scooter is quite well made, and as they've been on the market for a few years there's quite a few 'used' ones on eBay for not a lot of money. I've noticed with scooters is that often they're purchased for or by an older person, then only used a few times because the older person doesn't feel safe and sometimes they get unnerved because they crash into a gate post and crack the bodywork, etc.

ex-Gooserider wrote:If you size your packs to be about the physical size of the existing batteries in your current scooter, you also have very high odds of being able to simply swap them over into a replacement scooter of similar size since most scooters of a given size / capacity will use the same size batteries.

ex-Gooserider

I thought that as well and it relates to (above)
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby ex-Gooserider » 20 Feb 2018, 04:59

Another thought on lighting - not sure what the laws are in the UK, or other such places, my understanding in the US is that it isn't technically legal but generally nobody will bother you, - is to use a strip of 2812 or similar RGB LED lights, and a controller (you can do a custom job with an Arduino or get pre-programmed ones cheap from China)

Much better than dull and boring Red - instead do assorted patterns of red, green, blue, yellow, orange, purple, white, pink, puce, etc .........

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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 20 Feb 2018, 13:28

ex-Gooserider wrote:Worth noting that if you do the conversion properly (the way BM says... :clap ) so that you end up with a nicely balancing pack it takes several weeks, so best to get started on the project early, before your existing batteries start to die...

Why does it take quite a long time to build a lithium battery pack/s? I would have imagined it would be quite a quick build especially with the benefit of the orange plastic side wall formers (sorry I can't remember the correct name). Is it all the inter-connections that take the time? If the bits coming from china then I can understand the long delivery time.

I'm not saying I could build a lithium battery pack/s any quicker. I would be slower than most as I've not got the strongest work ethic in the world and can only use hand tools in short bursts before my arms start playing me up.
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby LROBBINS » 20 Feb 2018, 14:47

Most of the time is for fully charging each cell, letting it self-discharge for about a month, re-charging while measuring how much has to be added back, then sorting the cells into groups with equal self discharge rates. That's what gives you a pack that charges and fully balances quickly. In other words, lots of hurry up and wait.
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 20 Feb 2018, 14:57

LROBBINS wrote:Most of the time is for fully charging each cell, letting it self-discharge for about a month, re-charging while measuring how much has to be added back, then sorting the cells into groups with equal self discharge rates. That's what gives you a pack that charges and fully balances quickly. In other words, lots of hurry up and wait.

Good grief really! There’s a lot more too in then than simply physically building the pack and installing it in the powerchair or scooter.
I’m not very familiar with battery terminology/technology. But I’ve heard of say group 24 batteries, the 24 being a physical size classification? Can you for example buy a group 24 lithium battery where all the work has been done for you?
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Scooterman » 20 Feb 2018, 17:49

ex-Gooserider wrote:Another thought on lighting - not sure what the laws are in the UK, or other such places, my understanding in the US is that it isn't technically legal but generally nobody will bother you, - is to use a strip of 2812 or similar RGB LED lights, and a controller (you can do a custom job with an Arduino or get pre-programmed ones cheap from China)
Good idea :thumbup:
ex-Gooserider wrote:Much better than dull and boring Red
Dull and boring matches my personality! Lol
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby LROBBINS » 20 Feb 2018, 22:39

Can you for example buy a group 24 lithium battery where all the work has been done for you?

Yes, but it will have low capacity and a short and brutish life.
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Re: Safety First!!! Lol

Postby Burgerman » 20 Feb 2018, 23:19

And a built in BMS that will stop you pulling adequate current, and a cell balancing mechanism that is far too weak and that bouces the cells too high repeatedly for hours, etc etc. And it wont give you any or much range advantage, and because of low capacity it wont last long.
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