Going to the beach

[Clif]

Hello everyone. I am looking for some advice.I have a Quantum Q6 Edge that was given to me that I use daily to get around. It is OK and has been a great help. I can walk very short distances with a walker. I had a bad accident almost 2 years ago and was non weight bearing on my left leg until last October. My recovery is very slow and I am looking to get in the ocean for exercise and therapy. I would love to have something like the 4 wheel drive X8 but do not have the funds. I want to build a 4 wheel drive chair that will get me about 500 feet from the parking lot at the beach to the water's edge. I am planning on a simple skid steer system with 1 motor per side. It has to fit on my wheelchair lift so it needs to be a similar size as my current chair. It does not have to go fast and it does not need to run all day. In fact I plan on gearing it down to a slow speed so I have plenty of power for the very soft sand here in Florida. There is a short distance on a paved surface with gentle curves then very soft sand. I know skid steer means many limitations but for my purpose I can deal with them I believe. I could even stand to turn the chair for the return to the van if I need to ( if I don't run over my own foot). I plan on a chain drive on each side for ease of getting a slow speed.I am on a tight budget and would like to build this from 1 doner chair. So my questions are :
What motors would be best for this? Should I look for a used chair with 4 pole motors?
Do you think a mobility controller could handle this? I don't see any used chairs that seem to have over a 50 controller.
Does any body have any suggestions or Ideas for this project. There are a lot of pride chairs around. My Q6 seems to be powerful. I have used it to move couches and recliners around the house with a rope for towing. There are a few Invacare chairs around. What would be a good chair to look for if I need a higher amp controller to add on? I could skip the controller and run it at very slow speed with a seperate power switch on each side but it would not be as easy to control steering. I'm open to ideas!

[Burgerman]

What motors would be best for this? Should I look for a used chair with 4 pole motors?
Do you think a mobility controller could handle this? I don't see any used chairs that seem to have over a 50 controller.

There are many 90, 100 and some 120A controllers around. From invacare and pg drives. Ebay is a good place to start. I have a bench full of 100, 120A controllers. Even a full chair https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWERCHAIR-S ... SwkrFaiseU 90A controller. Thers loads.

As for motors, 4 pole is pretty much essential, and if you are going to gear them slower speed doesent matter. Although getting 4 motors from 4mph HD chairs, may be easier to build and work better. And group 24 batteries or lithium. Probably best to avoid pride.

[Clif]

Four motors might be easier. How does that work with controllers? How do you wire 2 motors per side together so they both get high amps? I have not ever taken a chair apart so I do not know much about controllers. I assume in a regular chair one box has 2 outputs - one for each motor. Do you then need to wire in an extra box to supply power to 4 motors. Cutting the speed in half should double the power I would have when turning, right?

[Clif]

I am having a hard time finding out the amp rating on the controllers in used chairs. Any ideas there?

[Burgerman]

Four motors might be easier. How does that work with controllers? How do you wire 2 motors per side together so they both get high amps? I have not ever taken a chair apart so I do not know much about controllers. I assume in a regular chair one box has 2 outputs - one for each motor.

You connect both motors each side together in parallel as one motor. Then each motor draws the amount of Amps it needs depending on load. But you will need an OEM level programmer to set motor load compensation to match the 2 motors. But you need to do that whenever you swap a motor anyway.

[Clif]

which Invacare chair should I be looking for?

[Burgerman]

I am having a hard time finding out the amp rating on the controllers in used chairs.

Thats not easy to answer. Its possible to order a chair with a 70, 90, 120Ah controler, from several different controller manufacturers. For E.G PG Drives make VR2 in 50 70 and 90A I think, and they also made 50, 80 and 100A versions of the Pilot plus. And also make the newer R-Net with a lot of different options... E.G. http://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Produ ... R-net.aspx

And then theres Dynamic and Curtis Instruments, and others that also have a multitude of options.

So a bit off research will be needed.

[Burgerman]

which Invacare chair should I be looking for?

Anything with 4 pole motors, and a 90 or 120 Amp power module. And that isnt a chair type, as many chairs are available with these control systems. Most invacare chairs use Dynamic controllers.

https://dynamiccontrols.com/en/
https://dynamiccontrols.com/en/designer ... s/products lynx, shark, dx, dx2 etc.

[rlnguy]

I rented a powered beach chair, a couple years ago-mostly to prove to my wife that powerchairs don't work on the beach.
I was wrong.
It was simple-looked like homemade aluminum frame, with tires like this on it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kayak-Cart-SUP ... SwXGtZod11
The back ones were bigger than the front ones.
The front ones were mounted in large "U" shaped forks, so could swivel, for easier steering.
The motors looked to be some old 4 pole Invacare branded motors.
Batteries were just the normal pair of group 24 gel.
The controller also, was nothing special-just a plain old VR2.
I was amazed at how well it moved around. Even in the sugar sand it didn't sink in, turning and traction was good.
You might try renting one, for a few days, and see what you think-and get some ideas.
Good luck.

[Burgerman]

If that does the trick it would save a lot of crap!

All depends on the sand. I used to walk my dog along the beach in summer. With my olde BM2 chair. Like this - same chair - (nandol in thailand). Also dry beach. But not the sort of sand you get in a egg timer!

[woodygb]

This is a topic that has been covered previously.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=828

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3604

Have a troll through the posts made by mnm99 for the build etc ... search.php?author_id=689&sr=posts

[Clif]

Those big orange Wheeleez wheels do work good on sugar sand.I have used those before on carts to move jet skies and hobie cats. They are not very durable. They are a thin urethane tire that is easily punctured and you do not want to use them on any kind of hard surface . They will wear out very fast. The main problem though is that I don't think you could build a chair that would fit on a wheelchair lift on the van. http://www.beachcartsusa.com/

[woodygb]

I don't think you could build a chair that would fit on a wheelchair lift on the van.

I believe that it should be fairly straight forward given that you only require a VERY SHORT travel distance rather than a chair to wander around the beach.

BIG Front wheel drive and wheels very close together...BIG single rear jockey wheel ..small AH but QUALITY batteries...E.G. 2 off Odyssey Extreme 22 Batteries - PC625 or even LiFePo.

How big a footprint can your lift manage and could this footprint perhaps be enlarged for this LIGHT WEIGHT beach chair?

[Clif]

I am picking up a used Quickie Pulse 6. I am considering either a narrow skid steer 4x4 with 14.5 70-6 tires or a 2 wheel drive with maybe 18" tires. The pulse 6 is mid wheel drive. I could just put some big tires on it, lose the rear wheels, move the seat forward,and put some big castors further up front. That would be the quickest way to get going but somewhat more work to figure out how to get it on a lift.

[Burgerman]

Heres how.

I used 145/70 x 6 tyres on my BM2 chairs. Fits my van fine since its the same width as the typical full sized powerchair.

A 145 tyre is 145mm. Thats 5.70 inches per tyre. Stock tyres are 3.00 inches wide. So you would end up with a wide chair if you just fitted the wheels. Quick maths. Most chairs are 25 inches wide. Add the extra. So 2.70 + 2.70 + 25 = 30.4 total width. Wont work in a car/ramp like my van.

The solution was to turn the full sized group 24 batteries north/south instead of across the chair. That then means the battery is reduced from 260mm across the chair to a 171mm. So you gain 89mm. Call that 90 as it makes the maths easier. Thats 45mm each side, where you van move the motors further inboard. 45mm is 1.77 inches. So the new tyres that are 2.70 wider can now fit, with a 2 inch overall width gain. In reality you can gain even more by reducing the gap between motor and battery and tyre and motor. You end up with a 25 and a bit wide chair as I did here.



Modded chair Battery long ways, motors moved inwards.


Stock chair Battery width way around... Tubeless 3.50 tyres.


Required this making:






Just to give you an idea about how to keep it narrow.

[Burgerman]

That works on damp sand. Mud. Will get stuck on your type of sand if its super dry...

[Clif]

You do amazing work. My sand is very dry and very soft so that means 4 drive wheels or soom 18" wheels. I am thinking something the size of the Magic Mobility X8. It just wouldn't have the nice steering but I won't need to do real tight radius turns. I have a big zero turn radius lawn mower that does OK in the sugar sand around here. It has 2 big tires and front castors (with 23 HP). There is sugar sand by my house on the coastal ridge here in Florida. It in a very clean very white sand that flows like sugar.Hence the name sugar sand. People new to florida that think they can drive a car across it are in for a big surprise. When I built my house a concrete truck backed up into sugar sand. It had 10 yards of concrete in it and sunk to where the frame was sitting on the ground. It took some really big equipment to get it out. The beach is almost as bad. The life guards patrol the beach on 4 wheel drive ATV's with big tires with no problem.

[ex-Gooserider]

I am having a hard time finding out the amp rating on the controllers in used chairs. Any ideas there?

Not guarantees, but look for chairs that have separate joystick and power modules, not 'all-in-one' units. (The size is a big giveaway)

Also, you will generally find the more powerful controllers in the 'rehab' style chairs that have more seating functions, higher speeds, etc. The low amp units tend to be used more in the 'mobility-aid' type chairs - the ones that look like self propelled car seats...

ex-Gooserider

[Rollin Positive]

I rented a powered beach chair, a couple years ago-mostly to prove to my wife that powerchairs don't work on the beach.
I was wrong.
It was simple-looked like homemade aluminum frame, with tires like this on it:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kayak-Cart-SUP ... SwXGtZod11
The back ones were bigger than the front ones.
The front ones were mounted in large "U" shaped forks, so could swivel, for easier steering.
The motors looked to be some old 4 pole Invacare branded motors.
Batteries were just the normal pair of group 24 gel.
The controller also, was nothing special-just a plain old VR2.
I was amazed at how well it moved around. Even in the sugar sand it didn't sink in, turning and traction was good.
You might try renting one, for a few days, and see what you think-and get some ideas.
Good luck.

Why would you want to prove that idea wrong???

Crazy because beach chairs have been around for years!

Even more so if someone has an idea or a dream make it happen dont stomp on it...

Cliff building any chair takes time and money and materials...I would just keep an eye out on ebay once in a while you can find older Frontier x5 (no longer made) for pretty good prices.

I just sold mine after 10 years of taking it on vacation each time we went to a beach community!

So much fun, people would always run up and ask questions how it worked etc, could walk with my wife and nieces and nephews growing up on the beach..and walk with my dog!

Plus be able to roll in a mall, use the same chair at a movie theater, the park etc.

[Rollin Positive]

[Burgerman]

The issue there is that his house is surrounded by that suger sand that off road trucks sink in... If I am in the right thread!