ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Power wheelchair board for REAL info!

POWERCHAIR MENU! www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair-stuff.htm

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby shirley_hkg » 23 Sep 2018, 11:24

Low A/C volt affects output amp, but not dc volt.

Higher output volt will mean higher watts .
shirley_hkg
 
Posts: 3918
Joined: 31 Dec 2010, 13:42

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Gnomatic » 23 Sep 2018, 17:15

shirley_hkg wrote:Low A/C volt affects output amp, but not dc volt.

Higher output volt will mean higher watts .


This is how mine behaves, although it does output a little more than the 25A its rated at when powered by 120VAC. To bad the PL8 is limited 30V input.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby steves1977uk » 23 Sep 2018, 17:54

You'd need something like this... https://www.ebay.com/itm/110v-120v-to-2 ... SwOVpXXB-u Although a better quality one!

Steve
User avatar
steves1977uk
 
Posts: 4318
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:47
Location: Wells next the Sea, Norfolk, UK

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Gnomatic » 23 Sep 2018, 19:22

Not a bad idea.

Looks similar to this unit here.

Here's another one.

I might pick up one on these sometime. In all honesty, however, the PL8 can charge my chair @30A with this PSU set at 30V and plugged into a standard US 110VAC wall outlet. I don't charge my chair over 30A(athough I did try charging at 40A, just to test the limits of the PSU), because my current Headway pack is on the small side at 90Ah.(still gets ~2X the range compared to lead bricks) Usually I charge @12A overnight.

Still, with one of these step up transformers, I would be able to get a lot more out of this cool little inexpensive PSU. cheers
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 23 Sep 2018, 19:59

Dont you have a couple of phases in your house? Instead of a neutral? Should give about 190V I think.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby LROBBINS » 23 Sep 2018, 20:57

Typically, a full 220V (between the "hot" wires of two 110 supplies) is available in U.S. electric panels and is used for electric ranges/ovens and electric clothes dryers. You have to follow the national electric code and any local ordinances to do so, but you can certainly add a 220V outlet if you want to use this power supply at its full current capacity. If you already have a range or dryer outlet, you can just plug in there.
LROBBINS
 
Posts: 5543
Joined: 27 Aug 2010, 09:36
Location: Siena, Italy

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby martin007 » 23 Sep 2018, 21:02

I have a question.

01.jpg



How many amps (input) the power supply consume (at most)?
User avatar
martin007
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: 03 Jun 2015, 23:55
Location: Spain

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Gnomatic » 23 Sep 2018, 21:03

To be honest I couldn't tell you. I do know my dryer and oven run off a 240v outlet. And my garage has a 240v outlet for this heater I have hung from a wall, But neither of those are in very convenient places with regard to the PSU.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 23 Sep 2018, 22:12

How many amps (input) the power supply consume (at most)?


3kw.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 23 Sep 2018, 22:13

How many amps (input) the power supply consume (at most)?


240V? 3kw.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby martin007 » 23 Sep 2018, 22:20

I ask about the characteristics of the cable (and conectors) that I am going to put in the power supply.

c13_female.jpg



Will 8 amps cable and conectors be enough?
User avatar
martin007
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: 03 Jun 2015, 23:55
Location: Spain

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 23 Sep 2018, 22:52

Are you using 120 or 240V?

Amps depend on input voltage, output voltage you choose, and charge Amps. So...

If you never charge above 30V and 50A then it will be a max of 30V x 50A charge, which is 1500 watts OUTPUT. And around 10% greater input. So you will need 1650 watt input from the wall.

1650 watts div by 120V AC is? 12.8 Amps. But it may only allow 25A charge. So that will be the same as below 6.4A.
1650 watts div by 240V AC is? 6.4 Amps.

If you were to use 60v it would double.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby martin007 » 23 Sep 2018, 22:58

Are you using 120 or 240V?


240 v

1650 watts div by 240V AC is? 6.4 Amps.


OK.

Thanks.
User avatar
martin007
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: 03 Jun 2015, 23:55
Location: Spain

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby steves1977uk » 23 Sep 2018, 22:58

Any IEC lead will work as long as you don't exceed it's rating. I use these... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-Metre-WHI ... 1428924085 These are rated 13A (3Kw) in the UK.

Steve
User avatar
steves1977uk
 
Posts: 4318
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:47
Location: Wells next the Sea, Norfolk, UK

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby martin007 » 23 Sep 2018, 23:02

Any IEC lead will work as long as you don't exceed it's rating.


:thumbup:
User avatar
martin007
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: 03 Jun 2015, 23:55
Location: Spain

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Gnomatic » 24 Sep 2018, 21:25

This cord will work in my 220VAC outlet in my garage. So I should be able to get full power from the PSU should I really need it.

I wouldn't mind getting a couple more of those outlets installed in a couple different places around the house. But my breaker panel is full already and I'd need to get a new one installed to get additional free breaker slots.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 24 Sep 2018, 21:52

So basically the US homes have 1 socket that is the same power as the UK/Europe has in every room, and then a whole house is wired in the weaker 120V ones? :cussing

Why, when there is 240V on the property did they not install that everywhere and do away with 120v ones? They work fine on all low power things too, physically same size etc. Makes no sense.

In my room right now, theres 10x double, 240V sockets. All with stuff plugged in. And 2x 240V singles. Also in use.

And that includes 2x 1500 watt power suplies, a 3kw supply, and a lathe, pillar drill, 3kw fan heater, and a bunch of low power stuff like computers, beds, chargers, solar inverters x 4, etc.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby ex-Gooserider » 25 Sep 2018, 01:42

LROBBINS wrote:Typically, a full 220V (between the "hot" wires of two 110 supplies) is available in U.S. electric panels and is used for electric ranges/ovens and electric clothes dryers. You have to follow the national electric code and any local ordinances to do so, but you can certainly add a 220V outlet if you want to use this power supply at its full current capacity. If you already have a range or dryer outlet, you can just plug in there.


I haven't tried it, but I am not at all certain it would be safe / work on US 220 household current.... I notice that the connectors on the unit are marked as Line and NEUTRAL, and normally Neutral is capacitively coupled to ground, as they are supposed to be at the same voltage....

I've explained the US household electrical system before, but essentially what comes into a house is the output of a center-tap transformer - 3 wires, normally labeled as Line1, Line2 and Neutral. Neutral is the center tap connection and L1 and L2 are the two output terminals. You get 110V between Neutral and EITHER L1 or L2, or 220V between L1 and L2.... Since L1 and L2 are interchangeable in a 110V circuit, they are just referred to as "Line".

"Ground" is hard wired at the service entrance to the Neutral wire, and a physical connection to the planetary surface... (either a driven rod or a cold water service pipe) There should NEVER actually be any current flow on the ground wires, they exist ONLY to provide a safe short circuit if a live wire touches the outside of a device.... Thus there is a capacitive connection between Neutral and Ground in the device to make sure Neutral doesn't float to a strange value, but never a DC connection. (one of the tests I used to do when making stuff was a "High-pot" test where the line and neutral wires were shorted, and a very high voltage was applied between them and ground - leakage had to be under specified limits)

My understanding is that UK and other 220V countries are using a single-phase system where you have the same Line, Neutral and Ground wires, but there is 220V between line and neutral. Neutral and ground are still coupled with hopefully no current ever going on ground...

So connecting to 110V US and 220V elsewhere is essentially the same wiring. BUT you are doing something quite different when going to US 220 because you are looking at split phase, rather than single phase power....

If you try to connect a US 110V device to US 220, and have ground connected, then you are capacitively tying one of the line voltages to ground - since caps pass AC I suspect the results would not be good.....

I didn't explicitly check, my ZXD, but most supplies tend to couple the negative output voltage to the Neutral input....

If you don't connect the ground wire, you might get away with it, but I think the result is that the negative output on the supply would go to whichever line voltage you had hooked to Neutral - and so would the chassis, so the outside of the supply would now be "HOT" with respect to everything else around it.... :shock: :shock: :shock: :o

ex-Gooserider
T-5, ASIA-B
Jazzy 1100
Jazzy Select 6
Quickie Q-7
Invacare Mariner
Want to make / get a better chair, ideally one that stands.
User avatar
ex-Gooserider
 
Posts: 5962
Joined: 15 Feb 2011, 06:17
Location: Billerica, MA. USA

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 25 Sep 2018, 07:38

I haven't tried it, but I am not at all certain it would be safe / work on US 220 household current.... I notice that the connectors on the unit are marked as Line and NEUTRAL, and normally Neutral is capacitively coupled to ground, as they are supposed to be at the same voltage....


In all the stuff I ever took apart, the ground is only ever connected to the case. Nothing else. The case, and the green terminal on your power supply are free floating from the DC output and connected to ground only. The neutral or live or ground, from the wall input are not connected capacitively or any other way to the DC output, and these are also floating in regards the wall, and the ground. And only 0 to 60V DC in regards each other. Use your multimeter and test!

You can connect the green terminal which is connected only to the wall ground/earth, and case, to the neg or positive DC output, and no current will flow. Its ony useful as a reference for measurement or fault finding. As such, it will work fine on 2 phases. Or 1 phase and neutral. As will all 240V equipment that I ever saw. If it has an on off switch it will be on the AC live. So the switch will turn off only the neutral if connected in reverse. But still safe. As long as you dont take it apart!

And you can connect the live and neutral in reverse with no problem and everything works just the same. There has never been any capacitive connection to neutral. It would be dangerous. In old properties there are non polarised 2 pin plugs. So a capcitor would make the case hot! Half the time. In old properties there are still occasional old 2 pin connections that connect either way... Although these are now rare.

If I measure the wall socket, neutral can be up to 10V AC (worst case in old properties) different to ground due to resistance and heavy loads. In the house itself, the ground and neutral are generally never connected to each other. We dont have a pole/transformer and wires overhead in towns and cities. Cables are underground unless you live on a farm. We have a sub stations feeding a 3 phase systems (420V between phases, 240V between 1 pase and neutral (or ground) under the streets, where ground is tied to the neutral. And the planet. Each street generally gets a 3 phase supply and each house or block of houses, gets a 240V phase and a neutral. And a ground. If you want 3 phase you can, at great expense, have that too but its rare. Only normally found in industrial units.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Gnomatic » 25 Sep 2018, 16:32

Burgerman wrote:Use your multimeter and test!


I ordered that cord to power my psu from my garage's 220VAC outlet, but now am a bit hesitant to try it. What/how should I test with a multimeter to determine whether or not it is safe to use?
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 25 Sep 2018, 17:13

Its safe. Unless it needs programming for 220/240V? If so it will be in that translation page. But I doubt it. Most EU stuff automatically decides.

To test check that the case is not connected to either the live or neutral, (resistance) and that the outputs are not connected to the input AC. But they are not, I already checked... Its output if fully floating/isolated. Thats all you need check. But if you want to understand better:

Once you conect it, and turn it on, then you can stick it on AC volts, or /and DC volts, (many meter can do this at the same time, like mine), and test:

One lead connected to the ground, earth, a pipe, etc. And the other to the green (earth) and it will read 0V and will read low impedance/resistance. it is connected to the metal case, earth, that pipe... Etc.

Then connect that same lead to the NEG out, will also read zero volts, or close to zero.
Then connect to POS out and it will also read zero volts... Since its floating. The meters resistance should be enough to make even the pos read 0V. Or very low.

Then test each front terminal. Unplug from wall, and measure resistance between AC IN pins, and the Negative out. It will be very high. So floating and tiedto nothing. Powered or not. in respect to input.

You worry too much. :ugeek:
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Gnomatic » 27 Sep 2018, 21:43

I can verify the PSU works just fine powered by a US 220v/240v outlet.

I got my cord for it that plugs into my 220V/240V outlet in my garage. I cut power to it by switching off the breaker, and then plugged the PSU into the outlet. Flipped the breaker on, and just to verify the case wasn't hot, I checked it with a voltage tester. No problem as you suspected BM.

My psu has no issue delivering its full 50A when powered by this outlet, which is expected. Just wish I had more of these outlets around the house.
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 27 Sep 2018, 22:04

In the rest of the world theres hakf a dozen in every room. I dont get why the US does it different.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby ex-Gooserider » 02 Oct 2018, 02:28

Burgerman wrote:In the rest of the world theres hakf a dozen in every room. I dont get why the US does it different.


My understanding is that much of the difference stems from legacy design choices from the earliest days...

The US was where we started to have modern AC electrical systems, particularly distribution grids - they started with 60Hz in part because it gave a nice automatic time-base, and 110V because the earliest knob & tube house wiring systems were even less safe at higher voltages - plus concerns about electric shock and so on - 110V is arguably better from a safety standpoint....

Our manufacturers did patents on various parts of the system, and wanted high licensing fees to allow overseas customers to build copies of their hardware....

This caused the Europeans to make a 'different' system so as to avoid patent infringement suits, so 50Hz, and since insulation technology had improved, higher voltages were possible....

The US started doing power grids before WWI and made a major effort to get most of the country connected well before WWII.... However most of the rest of the world got started much later, and then proceeded to blow up most of what electrical infrastructure existed during WWII, (with lots of help from the US military....) so really most of the rest of the worlds electrical system is based on late 1940's / 1950's tech, while the US is based on 1920's tech... However given the size of the installed base, it isn't practical to upgrade....

ex-Gooserider
T-5, ASIA-B
Jazzy 1100
Jazzy Select 6
Quickie Q-7
Invacare Mariner
Want to make / get a better chair, ideally one that stands.
User avatar
ex-Gooserider
 
Posts: 5962
Joined: 15 Feb 2011, 06:17
Location: Billerica, MA. USA

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 02 Oct 2018, 02:55

All maybe true. But you do have 240V in the house anyway. So swapping a couple of wires over gives you 240v everywhere.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby shirley_hkg » 06 Oct 2018, 06:08

Another ZXD2400 to UK . cheers
Attachments
112.jpg
shirley_hkg
 
Posts: 3918
Joined: 31 Dec 2010, 13:42

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby mickeymonk » 08 Oct 2018, 01:23

shirley_hkg wrote:Another ZXD2400 to UK . cheers


Looks like it's for me. Thank you Shirley.

PS you've spelt my name wrong. It ends EY. It happens all the time. In fact it's rare to receive a parcel with my name spelled correctly.
Mick
User avatar
mickeymonk
 
Posts: 29
Joined: 29 Jun 2018, 14:07
Location: Piethorne, Lancashire.

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby ex-Gooserider » 08 Oct 2018, 22:30

Burgerman wrote:All maybe true. But you do have 240V in the house anyway. So swapping a couple of wires over gives you 240v everywhere.

True, but then all of our legacy 110V appliances lose their magic smoke....

ex-Gooserider
T-5, ASIA-B
Jazzy 1100
Jazzy Select 6
Quickie Q-7
Invacare Mariner
Want to make / get a better chair, ideally one that stands.
User avatar
ex-Gooserider
 
Posts: 5962
Joined: 15 Feb 2011, 06:17
Location: Billerica, MA. USA

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 08 Oct 2018, 22:43

Although many will just work better. Dry clothes twice as fast! Washing machine works in half the time! And shakes itself out of the room. Vacuum cleaners will suck up a carpet. Lights really bright... 5k rpm drills. Temporarily. :clap

Things like fan heaters or hairdryers will be fine as double the fan + double the heat = same temp. PCs and many other things we buy in EU are designed for 90 to 250V. They just figure it out themselves like that ZXD power supply.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Gnomatic » 08 Oct 2018, 23:29

Burgerman wrote:They just figure it out themselves like that ZXD power supply.
It does that. When I plug it into a standard US 120v outlet in my home, it auto changes the max amps setting to 31.6A. A little more than the 25A its rated at given the AC input voltage. When I plug it into my 240v outlet in my garage, the full 50A is available.
:thumbup:
Gnomatic
 
Posts: 2080
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 17:18
Location: Ohio USA

PreviousNext

Return to Everything Powerchair

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AgGuy, hank and 7 guests

 

  eXTReMe Tracker