ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Scooterman » 30 Nov 2019, 23:20

Burgerman wrote:Yes it can do 50A, AND 60V too. Its 3kw capable.

:thumbup:
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 01 Dec 2019, 15:31

Actually it can and does output 60V and 50A (49.9) at the same time, tested.

So thats a 50 x 60 = 3000 watts OUT and so around 3.2 to 3.3kw input at 90 to 92% efficiency.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 06 Dec 2019, 16:32

It's arrived, many thanks Shirley_KHG you played a blinder :thumbup:

Just need to make up the correct leads but I'm getting a bit confused as Shirley_KHG suggested:

1, six feet charge cable with GREY_TO _RED Andersons.
2, GREY Anderson_to _EC5 to power your PL8.


My chair has 2@ x 12 V 31ah GEL batteries connected together by black SB50 Andersons, and a red SB50 AndersonS connecting it to the controller, so unless I'm wrong I think I've messed up and should have ordered some adapters (see diagram) when I ordered the FUMI3 along with the other cable and plugs, or have I got it totally wrong as I don't see how the banana/bullet connectors at the front of the PL8 are being utilised Shirley_KHG cable setup?

Is it easier, if I don't have the correct leads/adapters, to use the ZXD2400 as a charger and power supply without the PL8?

ZXD2400 wiring.jpg


This is even before BM schools me on the programme inside, my head hurts now! But it's much appreciated all you guys help.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby steves1977uk » 06 Dec 2019, 17:10

The aluminium cased Shirley PSU requires a DIY mod for high power via an Anderson SB50 connector. The banana plugs would probably be ok upto 20A, but any more you'll need to mod it. The guide to do this is on here somewhere!

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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 06 Dec 2019, 17:21

steves1977uk wrote:The aluminium cased Shirley PSU requires a DIY mod for high power via an Anderson SB50 connector. The banana plugs would probably be ok upto 20A, but any more you'll need to mod it. The guide to do this is on here somewhere!

Steve


I think I've already got that mod as there is a grey Anderson SB50 connector on the rear? I ordered what burgerman told me to:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Red-Black-10 ... SwBPxcdXIO

ONLY use these. And silicone hobby style cable.

I buy these in packs of 20 or 25. And use them for everything. Including the charger inputs, and fly leads on power supplies. And everything else. Even my electric bed and drill. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GREY-ANDERSO ... SwqHBa3vn0


Silicone charge cable. 12AWG
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silicone-Wir ... zuO_pfDmiw

And essential, http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... sion/FUIM3
If you plan on doing lihium, best get a bunch of these to use later. http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... sion-Cable


.... except for the PowerLab 36" Extension Cable for the lithium chair conversion later so I think I'm ready for the high-power Anderson SB50 usage ?

Thanks
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby steves1977uk » 06 Dec 2019, 17:41

Yep then that's correct. :thumbup: All you need is a Grey SB50 to two Red SB50s wired in parallel to charge each battery at 12v (14.1v for MK Gels) and set termination current of 31mA (1000th of Capacity) or stop after 8hrs. Not sure if the PSU switches off when the termination current is reached.

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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby LROBBINS » 06 Dec 2019, 19:13

It goes to whatever float voltage you've set. It doesn't have a timer, however, so you have to set the termination current higher than ideal, and higher still if tired, old batteries. (If the batteries are old, or only very slightly discharged even if new, it's best to monitor current as CV ends and make sure it doesn't start to rise. If so the termination current is set too high and you're getting out gassing.)
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 06 Dec 2019, 19:53

If you set say .2 or .3A (300mA) CV termination, then it will drop to your lower 27.2V or whatever float volts you choose. It doesent matter that you dont go to 1000thC if you are also allowing it to go to float afterwards. Float also completes the charge, it just takes longer.

Which is why in cyclic use its best to set a very low termination current like 1000thC or 8 hours, and no need for float. 2 stage and done! It just ensures a complete charge in the shortest overnight time available.

But a 4 to 6 hour at CV or terminate CV stage 2 at 1/500thC or sooner and then float at lower voltage to complete the charge will also work. It just takes more time to 100%.

Depending on battery, and discharge level, it will take:
--2 stage method, CC/CV: Constant Current for an hours or two. 8 hours CV at the correct voltage, till it reaches 1000thC.
So 12 hours total for a low power charger, and highly discharged battery to 100%.

-- 3 stage method, CC/CV/float: CC couple of hours, CV say 4 to 6 hours to say .3 or .4A end, then float for another 8 hours or more.
So 16 or more hours to fully charged.

If you think you can do this faster, with heavily discharged batteries, you are NOT fully charging your batteries.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 06 Dec 2019, 19:59

steves1977uk wrote:Yep then that's correct. :thumbup: All you need is a Grey SB50 to two Red SB50s wired in parallel to charge each battery at 12v (14.1v for MK Gels) and set termination current of 31mA (1000th of Capacity) or stop after 8hrs. Not sure if the PSU switches off when the termination current is reached.

Steve


Thanks Steve
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 06 Dec 2019, 20:01

LROBBINS wrote:It goes to whatever float voltage you've set. It doesn't have a timer, however, so you have to set the termination current higher than ideal, and higher still if tired, old batteries. (If the batteries are old, or only very slightly discharged even if new, it's best to monitor current as CV ends and make sure it doesn't start to rise. If so the termination current is set too high and you're getting out gassing.)


Bear that in mind their brand-new and haven't even drained yet after two weeks there still in the green as I've been indoors, so many thanks for the heads up.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 06 Dec 2019, 20:14

Burgerman wrote:If you set say .2 or .3A (300mA) then it will drop to your preset 27.2V or whatever float volts you choose. It doesent matter that you dont go to 1000thC if you are allowing it to go to float afterwards. Float also completes the charge, it just takes longer.

Which is why in cyclic use its best to set a very low termination current like 1000thC or 8 hours, and no need for float. 2 stage and done! It just ensures a complete charge in the shortest overnight time available.

But a 4 to 6 hour at CV or terminate CV stage 2 at 1/500thC or sooner and then float at lower voltage to complete the charge will also work. It just takes more time to 100%.


As I'm a complete novice, only ever having used the supplied charger, where is the best place for me to learn? Also do I PM you for the necessary profiles etc. Shirley PM me :

I've configured it a 3-stage charger to suit 30Ah gel battery.


Does that mean that with his cable suggestions below its plug and play? I'd ask him but it's three in the morning now and I missed is message at 12 o'clock midnight his time.

Extra cables you need :
1, six feet charge cable with GREY_TO _RED Andersons.
2, GREY Anderson_to _EC5 to power your PL8.
if I leave SB50 grey in case.


Thanks
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 06 Dec 2019, 20:24

Where to start.

Theres one button on that shorley power supply. It can be pushed, turned, and has a menu that isnt intuitive.
If you do not understand what a 2 stage or 3 stage charge profile is you will be confused.

Shirley has likely set it to charge an unknown 30Ah battery.

Then its plug and play like this.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/3stage.mp4

What it will do is this:

threestage.png


The CHARGE CURRENT is set by you (or shirley) anything from 0 to 50Amps. You can set this to 12 or less and its then safe to charge via an XLR connector.
The CHARGE VOLTS is set by you (or shirley). This can be from 0V to 60V. The correct voltage for gel batteries is 14.1 or 28.2 in series. And for AGM batteries 14.4 or 28V if in series.
The TERMINATION point, where it switches to FLOAT is also set by you. Choose .2 or .3V if it never falls to .1V after say 6 to 8 hours.
The FLOAT voltage is also set by you. To 13.6 or 27.2V if in series for both battery types.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 06 Dec 2019, 21:05

Burgerman wrote:Where to start.

Theres one button on that shorley power supply. It can be pushed, turned, and has a menu that isnt intuitive.
If you do not understand what a 2 stage or 3 stage charge profile is you will be confused.

Shirley has likely set it to charge an unknown 30Ah battery.

Then its plug and play like this.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/3stage.mp4

What it will do is this:

The attachment threestage.png is no longer available


The CHARGE CURRENT is set by you (or shirley) anything from 0 to 50Amps. You can set this to 12 or less and its then safe to charge via an XLR connector.
The CHARGE VOLTS is set by you (or shirley). This can be from 0V to 60V. The correct voltage for gel batteries is 14.1 or 28.2 in series. And for AGM batteries 14.4 or 28V if in series.
The TERMINATION point, where it switches to FLOAT is also set by you. Choose .2 or .3V if it never falls to .1V after say 6 to 8 hours.
The FLOAT voltage is also set by you. To 13.6 or 27.2V if in series for both battery types.


Okay think I'm getting it and thanks for the video. From the video I then realise that rather than using the XLR connector like you have done I can just use the Shirley grey rear Anderson SB50, make a six-foot set of Silicone charge cable 12AWG straight to my batteries (which I presume are in parallel in the attached image) with the available red Anderson SB50 (see image) and not use the PL8 for now?

Thanks again

ZXD2400 setup small.jpg
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Irving » 06 Dec 2019, 21:13

optical10 wrote:Okay think I'm getting it and thanks for the video. From the video I then realise that rather than using the XLR connector like you have done I can just use the Shirley grey rear Anderson SB50, make a six-foot set of Silicone charge cable 12AWG straight to my batteries (which I presume are in parallel in the attached image) with the available red Anderson SB50 (see image) and not use the PL8 for now?


NO they are in series if that's the standard joining cable.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 06 Dec 2019, 21:18

You have a PL8. If you power that from the shirley supply you can use the PL8 to charge the battery...

Your choice. The PL8 will do the same job. But mainly needed for lithium. Or for testing lead.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 06 Dec 2019, 21:51

Irving wrote:
optical10 wrote:Okay think I'm getting it and thanks for the video. From the video I then realise that rather than using the XLR connector like you have done I can just use the Shirley grey rear Anderson SB50, make a six-foot set of Silicone charge cable 12AWG straight to my batteries (which I presume are in parallel in the attached image) with the available red Anderson SB50 (see image) and not use the PL8 for now?


NO they are in series if that's the standard joining cable.


Many thanks, glad I included the image, guess I need to order a XLR connector to connect a six-foot charge cable to the Shirley grey rear Anderson SB50 to be able to charge batteries in situ in their standard serial configuration like burgerman did in his video?

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/3stage.mp4
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Irving » 06 Dec 2019, 22:36

optical10 wrote:
Irving wrote:
optical10 wrote:Okay think I'm getting it and thanks for the video. From the video I then realise that rather than using the XLR connector like you have done I can just use the Shirley grey rear Anderson SB50, make a six-foot set of Silicone charge cable 12AWG straight to my batteries (which I presume are in parallel in the attached image) with the available red Anderson SB50 (see image) and not use the PL8 for now?


NO they are in series if that's the standard joining cable.


Many thanks, glad I included the image, guess I need to order a XLR connector to connect a six-foot charge cable to the Shirley grey rear Anderson SB50 to be able to charge batteries in situ in their standard serial configuration like burgerman did in his video?

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/3stage.mp4


Better to make an Anderson to M6 ring terminals cable and simply pop the top off the battery boxes and connect to the same terminals that the output cable connects to. Or better, make that a short cable, and also make an Anderson to Anderson cable of suitable length (but not 6ft, 3 would be more than enough). Then you can charge at 40A direct from the Shirley supply.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 07 Dec 2019, 02:00

They are only 30A batts, so 15 to 20A is likely the max they will take. Unless high quality like Odyssey or something. If gel, you should charge at around 1/3rd to 40% based on capacity. So 10 to 15A or 20 at a push.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 07 Dec 2019, 05:38

Burgerman wrote:They are only 30A batts, so 15 to 20A is likely the max they will take. Unless high quality like Odyssey or something. If gel, you should charge at around 1/3rd to 40% based on capacity. So 10 to 15A or 20 at a push.


Using mk gel 30ah you suggested.

gel-12-31-8gu1h.jpg


Why can't I run XLR connector to connect a six-foot charge cable to the Shirley grey rear Anderson SB50 to be able to charge batteries in situ in their standard serial configuration like you did in your plug n play video?
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby shirley_hkg » 07 Dec 2019, 05:49


@optical10: here is what I did to your ZXD

3-stage charger enabled
Charge Ah count enabled
Auto output on power up DISABLED
Values I put down at eprom

73-- 930.
74-- 15.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 08 Dec 2019, 16:06

Can somebody help me check whether in fact my batteries are in parallel as this will determine whether I use the grey SB50 Anderson on the rear for 24a to a red SB50 Anderson on the chair if I can if the batteries are in fact parallel or
Since XLR is limited to 12A ,it will be easier to use the output poles at the front .

when I checked online if the positives are only connected to the positives on the next battery and negatives the same way, negative to negative, which mine seemed to be via the black SB50 Anderson connectors, and no connection between the positives and negatives to loopback on either battery then that seems to me that they are in parallel terminating in the red SB50 Anderson which in fact goes to my controller, so can anybody confirm whether I am correct or not please from this summary and the images below?

If they are in parallel then it means I can leave the batteries in situ under the chair, disconnect the red SB50 Anderson connecting the batteries to the controller and a use a new connecting cable, grey SB50 Anderson from the rear of the Shirley straight to the parallel connected batteries via a new red SB50 Anderson on the other end of that new 6 foot cable.

batteries connection#2quarter.jpg

batteries connected#1quarter.jpg
As you can just about see on the black SB50 Anderson connector in the image the positive wires are connected to the adjoining positive wires

batteries connection#3quarter.jpg


Any help much appreciated
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 08 Dec 2019, 16:32

What does it say on the charger.?
What is the control system? I never saw a 12V one...

Cant tell where any of those wires go in those pics.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby steves1977uk » 08 Dec 2019, 17:22

Optical's chair uses a P&G VSI control system BM, so 24v. Seems strange the batteries would be wired in parallel! czy

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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 08 Dec 2019, 17:34

Burgerman wrote:What does it say on the charger.?
What is the control system? I never saw a 12V one...

Cant tell where any of those wires go in those pics.


Controller + Charger quart.jpg
PG VSI D50979.01 controller


I don't know if these pictures help? The controller is a PG VSI D50979.01 controller.

batteries connected#1 + labelled.jpg


I've altered the picture to show the flow of the wiring, many thanks
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Irving » 08 Dec 2019, 17:50

On the RH battery both wires go to the black Anderson, but the black goes via the thermal cutout; this is a definite clue they are wired in series. On the LH battery the red wire will go to the black Anderson on the black wire side, the black wire from the battery and the red one from the black Anderson will go to the red Anderson. If you want to be 100% sure, measure the volts at the red Anderson - it'll be 24v for sure as the paperwork says!
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby flagman1776 » 08 Dec 2019, 17:51

I can't tell from the pictures because the leads are wrapped / taped up. I can assure you the chair is intended to run on 24 volts. You should find 24 Volts when check with a meter on the red plug. I'm barely able to see yellow barrel crimp splices inside the covers. I haven't been following your posts so I have no idea what's been done here. It's possible that this is not a Virgin, that someone has made a mistake trying to work on it.

As I draw this:
the battery with one black connector> the each terminal should be wired to the black connector.

the other battery with one black and one red connector... when unplugged, neither terminal should have voltage (power). The black connector should have a wire to a terminal of this battery. The other terminal of this battery should go to the red plug. The other wire should connect the back and red plugs.

The thing is the polarity must be correct and we can't tell from here if is it. Or if a mistake has been made.

EDIT: Irving and I agree... I didn't see the thermal breaker. He posted as I was typing.
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 08 Dec 2019, 18:10

Irving wrote:On the RH battery both wires go to the black Anderson, but the black goes via the thermal cutout; this is a definite clue they are wired in series. On the LH battery the red wire will go to the black Anderson on the black wire side, the black wire from the battery and the red one from the black Anderson will go to the red Anderson. If you want to be 100% sure, measure the volts at the red Anderson - it'll be 24v for sure as the paperwork says!


Many thanks that makes perfect sense when you take the circuit breaker into play. :thumbup:
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 08 Dec 2019, 18:24

flagman1776 wrote:I haven't been following your posts so I have no idea what's been done here. .........

The thing is the polarity must be correct and we can't tell from here if is it. Or if a mistake has been made.

EDIT: Irving and I agree... I didn't see the thermal breaker. He posted as I was typing.


This is the stock configuration as it came from the wheelchair shop I bought the chair from, I just replace the AGM batteries with gel. I was hoping to leave the batteries in situ under the chair and now I've confirmed in series I can just take Shirley's advice:

Yes to grey SB50 --- XLR .

Since XLR is limited to 12A ,it will be easier to use the output poles at the front .

Cut a XLR charge lead from any spare charger. Strip the +/- wires . CHECK POLARITY .

Connect to power poles .

Set amp to 8 ---- 12A , and go .


Thanks
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby optical10 » 08 Dec 2019, 18:58

Do I have to use DMX512 cable for the XLR controller male connector to the three polls on the front of the Shirley or will any 18AWG max wiring do? Cheers
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Re: ZXD2400 modification guild 3Kw 0-60V 0-50A

Postby Burgerman » 08 Dec 2019, 21:14

NON of the PG stuff, will work on 12V so you can be sure its 24.

Connect to the anderson on the rear if he fitted one.
You cant pull that out by mistake, or connect it wrong. And an XLR or anderson or both, on the other end.

Be sure its set to charge at 12A max, and away you go. It needs to charge at a max of 28.20V and drop to 27.2 float at some point after around 6 to 8 hours. Dont kow what shirley choose, but you can adjust that easily. Once you figure it out.
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