GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

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GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby robert97 » 17 Mar 2018, 15:39

build pictures posted here
http://boulderlabs.com/bob/GRAYCHAIR/

I needed to go fast with my dogs. Up thru January2017, the ew36scooter at 15mph
worked for me. but then i needed a chair. my craigslist quantum6000z
was painfully slow at 6mph.
annsley2016-02-05a.jpg
going fast on ew36 scooter


what a project! It started in February 2017 when I began reading
wheelchairdriver.com. I liked Bergermann's ideas: rear wheel drive,
soft large suspension tires, higher speed, narrow chassis, lithium
endurance. I bought a used permobile C350 from Craigslist to begin the
project. it was even slower:4.5mph . I fitted it with large
lawn tractor tires- it is 30" wide. I bought a roboteq controller
and strapped additional batteries on to the seat back to give
a 48 volt system. And sure enough it went fast: 14mph. The
next challenge was how to make the chair narrow enough to use
indoors and to go through doors.
Summer of 2017 I was getting more familiar with Roboteq and
lithium batteries. with small modifications to the C350 I
was able to fit two 35 cell packs (7S5Pxtwo) into the wheelchair
(14S 5P =46volts 60Ah). september 2017 we switched from
lead/acid to lithium batteries and the results were great. the
challenge was how to make a C350 with wide tires fit through
doors. The plan was to buy a new C350, chop up the frame,
make it narrow and pack in lithium batteries.

fitting47.png
lithium plan w roboteq

I began looking for someone to help me modify the metal frame
by cutting and welding. A neighbor Jason was able to help
with this project. He suggested that anything that we could
buy instead of fabricate would save time. Then I bumped into
Kilmore on the forum- he was building frames that would accommodate
my needs. He agreed to build a frame including motors, tires, elevator,
and some seating for me. My job was to add the wires, the
electronics, the controller and the lithium batteries.
While Tom Kilmore was building the frame in England I was
refining circuit diagrams wiring controls and joystick. I
received the frame from England late November 2017. The tasks :
* fitting the lithium battery packs,
* hooking up all the wiring,
* hooking up the joystick controls
* seating modifications needed.

Given my limited resources to skilled labor the next phase of
this project took months. by early February of 2018 the
wheelchair was driving. We are now making refinements to the
Roboteq software, seating functions, and joystick attachments.

seating2018-02-04e.jpg
mostly complete
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby flagman1776 » 17 Mar 2018, 15:46

Nice!
no longer able to use my TravelScoots
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby Burgerman » 17 Mar 2018, 15:51

Be warned. At that speed, lightweight lithium battery, and the general height it appears to be set at, with huge ground clearance, and seat set high because of lift mechanism your CG will be very high. Because of this you are going to have stability and caster shake problems. And at 14S with 8mph motors you wll get 18 mph.

I suspect you will need a lead plate below the battery, and the frame and rear wheel gap closing up/lowering, and the seat lowering by about 3 inches. Before you get stability and remove caster shake issues. You cant drive a bar stool at high speed.

I see you are running actuators from half the battery. That will unbalance the cells. Not sure what you are using to charge it. But maybe 2x PL8 chargers? In which case you should get away with it. But a BMS wont... It will cook the other half every recharge while the more discharged half tries to catch up for hours. Either way, better to use an actuator from a 60v to 12 or 24 inverter.
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby robert97 » 17 Mar 2018, 16:28

again, thankyou burgerman for making this possible.
my quality of life is much higher.

the "mostly complete" picture has about 4" of elevator, ie, not driving position.
ground clearance is 3.5" .

i am awaiting 13kph motors.
the frame is about 230 lbs, lithium 70 lbs, me 120 lbs

caster shake might need attention
i have control script, current sensors, and fail contactor mostly working.
im waiting for new motors to tune.
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby Burgerman » 17 Mar 2018, 20:08

You may be better with 6mph motors. And get around 13/14mph.
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby ex-Gooserider » 20 Mar 2018, 05:27

Nice looking job, I look forward to seeing updates as you progress....

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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby timmmay71 » 24 Mar 2018, 10:12

awesome build :thumbup: i can't wait to see the finished product!
C4-C5 Complete
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby popschief » 24 Mar 2018, 17:33

John has experience with speed and knows about fast vehicles. :fencing You have a pretty chair for sure. :worship Sure would be a shame to scratch it all up. :biker It would be very important to have the turn acceleration turned way, way down when up at anything more than 10 mph. drunk2

bp
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby Burgerman » 24 Mar 2018, 18:45

It would be very important to have the turn acceleration turned way, way down when up at anything more than 10 mph.


NO! The opposite. Low turn acc and turn dec means you cant control it and it goes wherever the hell it wants. It adds delays.
You mean low turn rate/turn speed?
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby martin007 » 24 Mar 2018, 20:32

The Powechair is a work of art. :clap :clap :clap :clap

What is the total budget? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby popschief » 25 Mar 2018, 00:02

NO! The opposite. Low turn acc and turn dec means you cant control it and it goes wherever the hell it wants. It adds delays.
You mean low turn rate/turn speed?[/quote]


Can't blame me for trying to pick it up cheap on CraigsList with a few scratches. :twisted: :twisted:

bp
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby robert97 » 25 Mar 2018, 14:39

i'll refine this, but here is a start of the costs
$1500 70 lithium cells
$1000 two pl8 chargers and power supplies
$300 wire
$300 connectors
$100 joystick
$200 contactor, breaker, relays
$10500 frame, motors, elevator, tilt from kilmore
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby martin007 » 26 Mar 2018, 16:07

13900$ in total!

You are a billionaire?
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby CPguy » 26 Mar 2018, 17:10

Still cheaper and better than the standard industry offering...
My rides:
1 BM2/BM3 with 120 A R-Net and Odessey (Lithium in 2016)
1 SKS Swiss VIVA (spare, as only NF22 size battery)
2 Progeo YOGA (for traveling)
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby martin007 » 26 Mar 2018, 18:40

The powerchair is quality, but is not available to all pockets...
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby Burgerman » 26 Mar 2018, 20:38

Being disabled, or even if not, and you want something worthwhile and it seldom is.
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby martin007 » 26 Mar 2018, 22:05

Burgerman wrote:Being disabled, or even if not, and you want something worthwhile and it seldom is.



I don't understand.
What is the meaning of the expression?
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby ex-Gooserider » 27 Mar 2018, 00:28

martin007 wrote:
Burgerman wrote:Being disabled, or even if not, and you want something worthwhile and it seldom is.



I don't understand.
What is the meaning of the expression?


Translation - Good $hit costs more than cheap $hit.... If you want good $hit, be ready to pay more for it.... Disability $hit costs a lot, even if it is really $hit, but going outside the insurance company and the usual disability vendors can result in getting better $hit for relatively less $$$$'s cheers

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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby robert97 » 21 Apr 2018, 17:43

progress:

roboteq software mostly tuned well. goes straight over rough ground now.
turns are good. slow speed precise. top speed about 14mph.

caster wobble ended: 3D printed a part that with wave washers allows variable friction.

casterSpacer.jpg
printed part that sits over bearings. add wave washer for friction


seating, tilt, foot rest: ongoing work

joystick mounting: soon ready
joymount41.png
mechanism to mount controls and joystick
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby expresso » 21 Apr 2018, 18:16

whow - thats great you can do all that - going to be perfect chair -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby robert97 » 22 Apr 2018, 19:16

does anyone have experience running seat actuators at 48v instead or
normal 24v? my actuators are too slow for my taste.
i have five: tilt, recline, foot angle, foot length, elevate.
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Re: GRAY CHAIR, lithium and roboteq in Kilmore frame

Postby Burgerman » 22 Apr 2018, 22:17

No, but as long as:
- the motors do not fly apart at double the rpm
- max current is limited by software or controller to the same level as choosen on the typical controller programming
- end stop stall current switching if used is fast, or seperate microswitches are used
- time used is reduced, lower duty cycle to allow cooling time. As in repeatedly going up and down faster on a lift, so doing double the work in a given period is bad.

Then there shouldnt be a problem.
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