Sinopoly Cells - Info -

[expresso]

would you use the same preset that was used for charging ONE headway 15ah cell ? and just up the charge rate ? since these are 100ah each -

can use 15 or 20A charge rate ? that would take about 4 hours easy if not fully drained - 24 hours for 8 Cells - then build it - test it - discharge - recharge and install - you would get it done in a few days -

Make a copy of your 90Ah chair profile. Rename to LiFePO4 1S 100Ah. Then just change the 8S to 1S in the first tab... And save.
Or use the single cell one and increase charge Amps, and set termination current to the same as your 90Ah pack.

my pack is 105ah - but same thing close enough - got it -

Where do you see that - First Tab - Change 8S to 1S ?

General Tab - ? i dont see where i would make that change - or maybe i have to have the Charger on -

[garriew]

Has anyone actually used these before? It's a lot of money to spend for crap batteries.

[Gnomatic]

According to BM, folks into EV's claim they're pretty good.

[Burgerman]

There are tests on all the different makes on a few EV forums. The blue calb cells, the black sinopoly, and the yellow winston cells all seem much the same. The headways are a little higher current or c rated for where pack is small and demand is high. But they are fiddly to use compared to bigger capacity cells. So swings and roundabouts... I am going to buy 8 sinopoly black cells and test. For capacity etc. Cant really test for 2000 cycles though! Can only measure resistance and capacity.

[Burgerman]

Where do you see that - First Tab - Change 8S to 1S ?

Under detection>cells> set to 1. But it may still insist on a cell balance connection! Stupid profiles.

So you may be better to adjust Amps and termination mA in the single cell profile I did already as that wont need a cell voltage balance connection. So its simpler..

[expresso]

Where do you see that - First Tab - Change 8S to 1S ?

Under detection>cells> set to 1. But it may insist on a cell balance connection! Stupid profiles.

So you may be better to adjust Amps and termination mA in the single cell profile I did already as that wont need a cell voltage balance connection. So its simpler..

Ok got it - i checked you can do it - its set to AUTO DETECT now - i can change that to 1 - will do next time i power up the charger and Add the new preset

thanks

[Burgerman]

Wont work without a balance wire even when set to 1 (I dont think). It uses the balance connection to determine cell count and will think there are non. So will give a cell count error...

Read slowly!

Under detection>cells> set to 1. But it may still insist on a cell balance connection! Stupid profiles.

So you may be better to adjust Amps and termination mA in the single cell profile I did already as that wont need a cell voltage balance connection. So its simpler..

[expresso]

Ok - i can use the preset for the ONE cell you did already - raise the termination - and raise the charge amps - what would be a good charge rate - 20A ?

i will try it next time i power up the charger anyway to see

well i can make the change - but would have to actually have the cell and try it - which i dont - you would have them first to test - and know for sure -

[Burgerman]

You can charge at 40A if you wish. I do. But they like it better at 20. As in will have a longer life.

Lithium is very sensitive to charge and discharge rates.

At 1/10th of C (or 10A on a 100Ah cell) for charge and discharge you will get 2 to 5 thousand cycles to 80% discharge.
At 20A you may get 1500 to 4 thousand.
At 40A you may get 1 to 2 thousand.
At 100A or 1C continuous you may get 1000 cycles or less.

Same with voltages.
Stay well away from anything below 3.00v or even 3.100v in use or above 3.500V on charge and get 2 or 3 times the cycle life that you will get at the max capacity of 3.650V and 2.500V needed for max capacity.

Lithium likes it in the middle, where its got 30 to 70% charge, and where all charge and discharge currents are low. Then they last for decades and dont deteriorate noticibly. But at the same time you do have to use them! Its all about understanding this, and using them and planning accordingly.

As such if you are in a hurry, or going a long way, or have no choice but to have a small pack, you CAN charge FAST. And Charge to 3.65V. Use a BMS that overvolts the cells for ease of use. Discharge them to 99% daily. Etc. But they wont last very long. Its all about choice and understanding. And as you can see a larger pack will last much longer.

[expresso]

yeah - i mean at the rate i use them - they should last 10 years easy - when i do use them - i do use them all up most of the times - i been down to 3.1V on the full pack - but its better now that i added the extra 30ah - so its hard to get it down that low unless i do close to 50 miles - i would have to try hard to do that much distance

i was asking for the first time charge before you build the pack - if i charge at 20A - can take a good 4 hours each Cell - - would take a few days to bring them all up to full - before the first build - and in my case would take a week to discharge using the PL 8 its slow but a week isnt too bad - or i have to get one of the dump things you and Genomatic are using - to discharge it faster

i just dont have room for all this stuff

[Burgerman]

Connect say 4 together at a time, and charge at full power. At a typical 50% charge that will take 5 hours, twice?

And you have 3 chargers!
So connect 2 together at a time or 3... Charge at 40A each charger.

[expresso]

thats true - i actually have 3 chargers - i got an extra just in case - its in the closet for a backup - with 12 PSU -

i can use the two chargers - at the same time - i though it was best to do ONE Cell at a time for the first time - - actually they suggest to connect them all together and charge first time this way -

instead of 100ah 3.2v cell - make a large 800ah 3.2v pack and charge - unless i am mistaken -

i figured it would be best to do one at a time for the very first charge -

4 at a time dosnt sound bad - with 2 chargers - will be done same day -

even one at a time will make this build alot faster than using the 56 headways a few weeks compared to a few months or more

i still like the headways - but i look forward to hearing your results once you test them - i scraped doing this chair with the head ways - but now with these cells - i am going to revisit the idea - and itching to do it at some point

[Burgerman]

We did each headway seperately with the same cut off terminal current so we knew they were all charged to the exact same level.

Thats because we then measured the refill after a month. So we knew the discharge rates to assemble sets of cells that had the same average discharge rates. Since we cant do that with 1 cell per group (because they are 100Ah already) then anything close to full is adequate. Because the final bit will be balanced by the PL8 on charge once assembles. What we cant know is if each 100Ah cell has equal self discharge rate over time. If it doesent, then storing the chair will put it more out of balance faster. If we are lucky it will be fine. If we are not then we may need to top up charge more often to balance it up.

[snaker]

Has anyone actually used these before? It's a lot of money to spend for crap batteries.

I built a 150Ah pack (138Ah in reality) by prismatic cells bought from taobao. Until now it works fine and I am enjoying the very long range it offers. My trips are usually 80km or more and there are still many unused Ah. In coming days, I will drain the pack to see how far a powerchair could run in a single trip.

[expresso]

80km is about 50 miles - thats a long ride - you beat me for sure

what time do you wake up and go out to ride - what time do you return ?

its great though

[snaker]

My time is 05:00 wake up, 07:30 go out, 15:00 get back home.

I am driving people in my family mad. They do not like that I go alone in long time

[LROBBINS]

Expresso, If Snaker's schedule seems awful early to you, do remember that Vietnam is a tropical country and it gets exceedingly hot in the afternoon.

[expresso]

My time is 05:00 wake up, 07:30 go out, 15:00 get back home.

I am driving people in my family mad. They do not like that I go alone in long time

what time is that when you get back 15:00 ? i am not good at translating military time - would that be around 5 pm in the evening ?

yeah i get the same thing here about going alone for so long and far - but what can you do - you are most likely the only user in your country with lithium - so your stuck going alone like i am here also - i may have some company this summer - i am putting my ADD ON 36ah pack on my friends chair - she wants to try it out - so maybe she can ride along this summer on some of the trips - she will still have to take a bus at least up to the bridge in order to ride the whole trip i take - ADD ON alone is not enough - but if she takes the bus up to the Bridge first - saves a good 9 miles -

i am the only person i know that is using lithium here in NYC - so i have to go solo

[Burgerman]

3

[expresso]

Expresso, If Snaker's schedule seems awful early to you, do remember that Vietnam is a tropical country and it gets exceedingly hot in the afternoon.

yeah i guess it would be different - i just cant get up early and start rushing etc, to get ready - i try hard to get out of the house around 11 am to do the long rides in order to get back around 5pm or 6pm - but i have to try to get started earlier this summer on some trips just to try to break the 44 mile mark - curious if i can get 50 miles out of my 135ah battery -

i know i have to get up and out by about 10am i think

i usually dont end up falling asleep till about 2am or 3am - i am in bed by around 12:30am but dont fall asleep that fast

[expresso]

3

7:30am till 3pm ? about 6 1/2 hours then -

i can try to get out by 10am - thats very early for me but i will do it this summer

[firehopper]

3

7:30am till 3pm ? about 6 1/2 hours then -

i can try to get out by 10am - thats very early for me but i will do it this summer

actually 7:30am - 3pm is approx 7.5 hours.

[expresso]

3

7:30am till 3pm ? about 6 1/2 hours then -

i can try to get out by 10am - thats very early for me but i will do it this summer

actually 7:30am - 3pm is approx 7.5 hours.

yes my bad - long time -

[Burgerman]

Not sure I dare do more than 4 hours at a time or pressure ulcers will return. But once I get the motor fixed on my BM3 chair, as soon as my finances allow, I can do 16 miles every hour. So 4 hours would be 64 miles as long as I dont stop or slow down. But I would need to unless super smooth.

I am hoping it all comes together and a nice warm sumer day, to enter a local 26 mile marathon. And win from the back... At the last few hundred yards. For comedy effect.

And will just have to video it. Expresso can do the new york one if he enters soon. Not sure if he can win it though. What average speed do the winners do?

Looks up google...
The Olympic men's record is 2:06:32, set at the 2008 Summer Olympics by Samuel Kamau Wanjiru of Kenya (average speed about 20.01 kilometres per hour or 12.43 miles per hour).

So it MIGHT just be possible if the world record runners have a bad day. Either way he will be in the top few.

[expresso]

Not sure I dare do more than 4 hours at a time or pressure ulcers will return. But once I get the motor fixed on my BM3 chair, as soon as my finances allow, I can do 16 miles every hour. So 4 hours would be 64 miles as long as I dont stop or slow down. But I would need to unless super smooth.

I am hoping it all comes together and a nice warm sumer day, to enter a local 26 mile marathon. And win from the back... At the last few hundred yards. For comedy effect.

And will just have to video it. Expresso can do the new york one if he enters soon. Not sure if he can win it though. What average speed do the winners do?

Looks up google...
The Olympic men's record is 2:06:32, set at the 2008 Summer Olympics by Samuel Kamau Wanjiru of Kenya (average speed about 20.01 kilometres per hour or 12.43 miles per hour).

So it MIGHT just be possible if the world record runners have a bad day. Either way he will be in the top few.

that would be wild - i never though about entering any kind of race - but how does that work - i mean someone in a chair can race with the others who are not ? i would think we have a big advantage - but maybe not - my Avg. speed maybe can be around the 10 mph mark - more or less - between the lithium - higher volts and the tires - stock its 8.5 - i have seen 10 easy with GPS before -

BM with your speed - you would win for sure i would think - who can run that fast for the long run steady - or if theres a wheelchair marathon of some sort - i am just enjoying the Range and speed is nice - i be honest going too too fast isnt that great unless you have alot of ground to cover and its flat open long road - or else its more work to handle the chair in the city at speeds - many times i slow it down within the city till i am out in the open more - 8 mph is a decent speed to keep all the time - or even 7.5 etc, for in the city - 7 the slowest to use - after that its just too slow for me

[Burgerman]

You just enter for fun. Your time wont mean anything since you are powered. But they wont expect it since other chairs cant complete the course. There will be lots of race manual wheelchairs. Some of those win...

[expresso]

You just enter for fun. Your time wont mean anything since you are powered. But they wont expect it since other chairs cant complete the course. There will be lots of race manual wheelchairs. Some of those win...

not a bad idea for fun - i have to look into it - no rush - A Neighbor here in a manual used to race - he was the first to race and win when they started to race - he showed me his pictures going over the Bridge not sure which it was now - hes in great shape still now - hes out and about early in the morn. - for his age which i am not sure what it is - but hes in his late 60s i believe and strong - dosnt look it

yeah i would guess no Lead wheelchair would win for sure or even finish the race - maybe i can manage to at least finish it - if its under 40 miles - i could have a good chance at finishing

[foghornleghorn]

London Marathon wheelchair record is 1:28:57 - a manual wheelchair going even faster than your BM3 could do it in!

[expresso]

London Marathon wheelchair record is 1:28:57 - a manual wheelchair going even faster than your BM3 could do it in!

true - they can go pretty fast and for long time - i can at least finish

[Burgerman]

London Marathon wheelchair record is 1:28:57 - a manual wheelchair going even faster than your BM3 could do it in!

Those race manual chairs are very fast. Or rather the ape driving it is. What is that in mph 17.52? Bugger! Yes but thats a record. So likely 16 will be enough. Esp if I get in the way a bit on fast downhill bits!