Sinopoly Cells - Info -

[expresso]

https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-3 ... 100Ah.html

BM - i started this section to talk about these Sinopoly Cells etc, and your next built with them - dont want to mix it up on your other section - about the salsa etc,

[expresso]

Burgerman wrote:

it will work out as long as 4 cells are the same size of group 24 MK - thats all that matters -



Thats the point. They are not!

If the batteries are as a pair, sideways, as most chairs, you get 260 wide x 340 deep, and 230 to 240 tall.

4 of these is 61.5 x 4 = 266 wide. And 140 deep...

Works great if you turn them around, and use 8...




This Chair i am looking to do - both batteries are not a Pair side by side etc, - - thats the reason i need to split them - it holds MK 24s fine - But - one battery is Straight - and the rear battery is sideways -

4 of those Cells fit the same size of a MK 24 Battery - thats all i need to worry about - 4 Cells taped together would sit in my chair straight - and 4 Cells sideways - behind the Straight one - this is why i have to Connect them with a Cable between the packs of 4 Cells - instead of a connector - and have to use 4s balance wires

like this one -

http://www.usastore.revolectrix.com/Pro ... sion-Cable

one of them for one 4 Cell pack - and another for the other 4 Cell pack - Each of my batteries have its own Bag also to sit them in - which makes it easy to grab and lift out of the chair - - they dont slide out the back - top of chair needs to be removed off the base - Quickie P222 se - is the model i want to do this with

this way its a modular pack - it wont - Cant fit all together - on my 646se chair which i did the 105ah headways - that would be perfect - One large 24V pack and slide it right in - and i can still use my 36ah ADD ON when i am done the same way i use it now but no lead inside - would be 136ah total


Quickie P222se - - 36ah ADD on pack -
Quickie S646se - - 105ah LifePo4 Pack + 30ah ADD ON - 135ah total
Quickie P220 - Indoor Chair

expresso

Posts: 5542
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:17 pm
Location: NYC - NY

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[garriew]

My chairs batteries are the same. What type of range do you expect to get w/ the 8 100ahs?

[Gnomatic]

My chairs batteries are the same. What type of range do you expect to get w/ the 8 100ahs?

100ah @24v is going to give a crap ton more range than lead bricks. Over 2X. And won't be sluggish after an hour or so of use.

[Burgerman]

Lots of confusion here. Some chairs cant use 121 tall.

SINOPOLY
https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-3 ... 100Ah.html
Cells are: 221 tall. 142 wide. 61.5 deep. EACH.
That makes a BLOCK of 4 (for 12V) as 221 tall x 284 wide X 123 deep.
Or,
221 tall x 142 deep, x 246 wide.

WINSTON
There are now similar but slightly thicker (67mm instead of 61.5) winston 100Ah cells and 145 wide that will fit some chairs.
https://www.ev-power.eu/Winston-40Ah-20 ... 100Ah.html
143 X 67 X 120 tall.
These will also fit the stock grp24 x2, 260mm x 174 type chair, where batteries are as a square side by side block of 340 x 260 planform with 8mm extra room. As they can be rotated 90% and so are 286 x 268. 8mm bigger than grp24 but will fit many chairs.

CALB
https://www.ev-power.eu/CALB-40Ah-400Ah ... 100Ah.html
Same size as the Winston above. Will fit some chairs. LowerC rate however. So last choice here.

You must measure. The real advantage of the Sinopoly is that they are 61.5mm thick. So 4x = 246 wide. Instead of 268 for the other two. Meaning less than grp24 for a 12v battery replacement. You could even get 4 inside an old lead grp24 case...

[expresso]

My chairs batteries are the same. What type of range do you expect to get w/ the 8 100ahs?

i have 105ah and can get a good 40 miles - but this will be different for everyone - and can be different for me also depending how i ride the chair that day -

you can expect at least 30 to 35 would be a good guess of what you can expect with 100ah - Again it can be a bit more or a bit less - depending on different factors -

[expresso]

https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-3 ... 100Ah.html

i started this and got excited because of these Sinopoly Cells - since they fit within the specs needed to replace a group 24 battery - at least a MK model
since i am basing it on the MK group 24 specs -

when i looked over the specs of both - they should work fine on any chair that can hold a group 24 MK - they will fit - - i want to say - they should fit and anyone who is interested needs to check there battery space to be 100% sure -

because of this Cell - i am excited and can see how i can make good use of them now - - makes it easier - to handle - build etc, - these can be charged - built - tested and recharged ready to install in a few weekends -

[expresso]

My chairs batteries are the same. What type of range do you expect to get w/ the 8 100ahs?

i can get 25 miles easy with just a 36ah ADD ON with lead batteries - now if it was all lithium like these 100ah - easy 35 to 40 - to be on the safe side

last time i used 90ah of my battery - did 40 miles - pack was 105ah - i would say thats my limit - i have done 44 Miles also - but not more i wouldnt push it too close to the end -

since then i have added an extra 30ah ADD ON to the 105ah - now i dont have to worry at all doing 45 miles to 50 Miles -

[Burgerman]

If you have 70/80Ah lead, your range will double give or take. Maybe a bit more.

If you get 4 miles now you will get about 9 or 11 due to greater lead peukert when discharged faster.
If you get 20 now, you will get 40 to 45.


But remember that tyre type, pressures, chair weight, your weight, route, hills, temperature outdoors, road camber, style of driving, programming, how tired the motors are, and very much how much zero speed turning all drastically changes the range. Indoors vacuuming my house I can use half a battery in a couple of hours eaily. And cover just 1 mile. The same chair may do 10x more on an outdoors shopping trip. Or 15 times more on a straight rum for distance from first thing.

So the range you get day to day will vary quite drastically unless EVERYTHING remains the same. But thats almost impossible to achieve no matter ho hard you try.

[foghornleghorn]

So the range you get day to day will vary quite drastically unless EVERYTHING remains the same. But thats almost impossible to achieve no matter ho hard you try.

When I was checking how far I could go on my current batteries I spent an afternoon going up and down the same road until it was flat so hopefully will be able to do a test of exact same conditions and be able to measure the difference a change in batteries makes.
One thing I did find interesting was that I didn't lose any speed over the whole distance - the 18th mile took just as long to complete as the first. I was expecting to be gradually slowing all afternoon.

I'm using a different chair for indoors so always set off out fully charged meaning anything I have previously achieved should be repeatable. Usually if I'm going somewhere unfamiliar I will have a look at a fitness tracker website to measure proposed routes and check for elevation changes etc so I don't push my luck on distance.

[shirley_hkg]

Sorry to interupt .

I don't like this cell . It is usually made up of several pouch cells inside . 0.5 mΩ also doesn't seem low enough per high C cells .

Besides , they don't even make a specific case for the cell , so I doubt their dedication .

[Burgerman]

Maybe, never even saw a white calb cell in real life, only plastic light blue ones. Hard to think that that pressure relief valve works for pouch cells? But yes its only 2C rated as well.

But the sinopoly and the Winston cells are both pretty good according to the EV forums. And the Sinopoly is smaller and works in place of grp 24.

These are the interesting ones. https://www.ev-power.eu/Sinopoly-40Ah-3 ... 100Ah.html
But very few have them on stock yet in the EU or US.

[Gnomatic]

These Sinopoly's are interesting. Would be a lot simpler to convert a chair to lithium with eight of these vs. assembling dozens of Headway cells into a pack ect.

Who's going to be the guinea pig?

[Burgerman]

Me. I will put 8 into my new chair in june as soon as in stock. I only get 100Ah this way (less kwh than my other chairs) but as you say its easy. And its still 30Ah more than the stock grp24 setup. I certainly wouldnt do less. But its adequate to make it worthwhile.

And of course we only really get 40 to 50Ah from those lead bricks before we grind to a stop in reality. Because they suffer peukert and voltage depression as well as increased resistance on discharging. So this real 100Ah would allow a little over 2x the range if run pretty low. Best not to do that most days though. So realistically the ISO 24 miles will be 40, or 45 in an emergency... And last a decade instead of a year. So a no brainer.

But it will cost £880 instead of £470 for MK gel/lead. Double basically. Plus the charger I already have.
But thats actually very much cheaper when you consider that you are buying double the range. You would expect to pay twice as much for 2x the fuel for your car.

And then also getting some10x the lifespan for free on top!

[expresso]

i be waiting for your results - by the time i am ready - it may take some time - what kind of balance wires can i use if i need to make two parts - 4S cable for one 4 cells and another 4S for the other - i found a 4S cable on the charger site but would need both a male and female end

i recall you used those on you 48v chair ? can you link the cables you used to me here ?

thanks

[Gnomatic]

You don't need two 4S charge cables. A single 8S one just like you have now will work. Since both 4S packs will be connected in series. Having two single battery compartments doesn't change this.

My 24v 90ah pack is two 12v 90ah packs connected together by a wire with a breaker in between. Forget your top row for a second (and disregard the circled part in pic) - look at your pack here.



The only thing I did different than you, is on #4, I used two rows of two hole bus bars instead of a single row of 4 hole bus bars. I connect the two rows of two hole bus bars by a wire that connects the two - with a breaker in between. So imagine your pack is split into two 4S packs connected together in series by wire. Its the same thing.

[expresso]

the problem is getting them in the chair - the wiring would get in the way - since they will be two packs - one goin straigth and the one behind is sideways
theres a brace there also - it would be hard to hold them while fitting one and then the other - and then if i had to remove - same thing - they would be wired together making it harder to remove

having them in two parts - with the balance wires split also - means i can just unplug the wires - all of them - and then just lift one pack out with no worries

then the other pack slide back past the brace bar and out - its just to make it easier to handle install and removing etc,

i will have to use a Cable to connect the two also - instead of one of the buss connectors - i will use a Cable with SB50 connector to make sure they snap in good and tight - if i do this - i want to make sure its done right and no wires connectors coming loose -- this chair is like yours - have to take off the top half to get to the base - i want to do it once and thats it if i can

this chair already has a breaker - which i will leave since its wired into the chair wiring already - not on the batteries - i believe its 70A -
i would think its fine to leave it alone -

[Burgerman]

Attach one of these to each 12v battery.

And make the chairs charge connector have 2 of these soldered into it. Then just connect after you get the battery in the chair.

[expresso]

yes thats what i am looking for - i would cut one end and attach to the battery -

then have to make wires longer on the other end for the charge cable -

i cant find that cable that has both male and female ends like your picture

do you have a link to that cable with both ends - ?

[garriew]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lipo-Ba ... 54220.html

[expresso]

thanks - that one is a 3S - i would need 4S -

i never purchased stuff from there - takes too long - there has to be some of those here in the States -

i been finding cables that are just single ended and bare on the other side - i would love to find a 4S - with male on one end and bare on the other end - then same for Female end and bare also -

this way i can solder longer wire if needed - i dont mind extending the cable - i just want the ends to be made already - male and female end -'''


Just found this one - this should be fine ?
https://www.amazon.com/HOBBYMATE-Chargi ... l_huc_item

i would cut one end and connect to the chair -

then cut and extend another cable to solder on charge cable -

[Burgerman]

You dont want a bare one. You want good quality 4s ones that have a plug and socket. You cut the cable in half, and the plug goes on the battery. The socket goes on your chair side SUB-D connector...

Quality ones can be bought from Revolectrix / cellpro. You likely already have some 36 inch 8S ones. And you could use these. But they sell 4S too to make it simple. http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... sion-Cable

[expresso]

- i would rather get the correct 4s model to keep it cleaner - the link shows a board attached on one end - like they do with the 8S also

i always received them with both ends male and female - if the 4s are the same - then i would use those - better i wont have to extend them -

thanks -

[expresso]

You dont want a bare one. You want good quality 4s ones that have a plug and socket. You cut the cable in half, and the plug goes on the battery. The socket goes on your chair side SUB-D connector...

Quality ones can be bought from Revolectrix / cellpro. You likely already have some 36 inch 8S ones. And you could use these. But they sell 4S too to make it simple. http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... sion-Cable

if i can use the 8S - how would that work - ? just curious -

i think using the 4S would be cleaner ? i cant vision how to use the 8S if i have to split them

[Burgerman]

Cut 4 wires off one, and then look at it again!

[shirley_hkg]

These Sinopoly's are interesting. Would be a lot simpler to convert a chair to lithium with eight of these vs. assembling dozens of Headway cells into a pack ect.

Who's going to be the guinea pig?

Didn't snaker has gone long ago , with just 16@75Ah cells for his 24V 170Ah power house ? .

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&p=106406#p106406

[expresso]

Cut 4 wires off one, and then look at it again!

ok i get it - for some reason i was thinking i had to solder two sets of the wiring on the same pin - stupid me -

i can just use those also - i would when the time comes get the 4S anyway -

with these cells its alot easier for me to explain to others also - to show how simple it can be now this way - its less intimidating looking at 8 Cells with 7 connectors compared to 56 with so many buss bars etc, -

if these cells work out - this can be done in a few weekends for me once all wiring is already made -

would you use the same preset that was used for charging ONE headway 15ah cell ? and just up the charge rate ? since these are 100ah each -

can use 15 or 20A charge rate ? that would take about 4 hours easy if not fully drained - 24 hours for 8 Cells - then build it - test it - discharge - recharge and install - you would get it done in a few days -

i would need a few weekends - thats great - either way -

[shirley_hkg]

AND has created a GUINNESS RECORD shortly after his battery installed .


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=3160

My maddest range: 83km/89.5 returned Ah.

I think you've created a GUINNESS WORLD RECORD already .

Truely , 83km in less than 6 hours for a wheelchair is hard to break .

[Burgerman]

would you use the same preset that was used for charging ONE headway 15ah cell ? and just up the charge rate ? since these are 100ah each -

can use 15 or 20A charge rate ? that would take about 4 hours easy if not fully drained - 24 hours for 8 Cells - then build it - test it - discharge - recharge and install - you would get it done in a few days -

Make a copy of your 90Ah chair profile. Rename to LiFePO4 1S 100Ah. Then just change the 8S to 1S in the first tab... And save.
Or use the single cell one and increase charge Amps, and set termination current to the same as your 90Ah pack.

[expresso]

AND has created a GUINNESS RECORD shortly after his battery installed .


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=3160

My maddest range: 83km/89.5 returned Ah.

I think you've created a GUINNESS WORLD RECORD already .

Truely , 83km in less than 6 hours for a wheelchair is hard to break .

thats a long ride - how fast do you need to go to get that done in 6 hours ? - the most i have done is 44 miles - Snaker has the best setup now with range and speed -