Sinopoly Cells - Info -

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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby elryko1992 » 04 Jun 2018, 11:07

expresso wrote:
elryko1992 wrote:
expresso wrote:the new cells i just purchased - if they are not lying to me about the specs - its 5C - 60ah Cells - thats great -

i really wont know anyway - i will make it - and use as an ADD ON and thats it - i am sure they will give me some more range and last many years - this chair wont be used as much -

i may have to make connectors with wires - dont think i am getting any - i asked for them but they said they will try - so means they dont have them and may not get -


Expresso when you build your new cells make photo to see the steps if you want like a tutorial :D i want to see, when my MK is gone i want to buy this cells 60AH.



Sure no problem - i was thinking of that also - take it slow and try to make it simple steps - with pictures - will try to make it simple to understand and easy to follow with pictures step by step -

if you used this 60ah Cell for the whole chair - you would have 120Ah pack - 16 of them - the seller has been helpful and making an effort to make me the connectors - hopefully they work out - i should expect this order sometime in July if all goes well - free shipping takes up to 36 days - maybe sooner - they havnt shipped yet


ok good :thumbup: i waiting! Thanks!
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Gnomatic » 05 Jun 2018, 01:12

shirley_hkg wrote: You must be prepared and willing to take a risk . You are gonna be the first crab-eater . czy


I like crab cakes. drunk2
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Gnomatic » 06 Jun 2018, 02:31

shirley let me know when you are willing to purchase and ship some battery cells. I will pay. Like these you posted earlier in this thread. Or other if better if you know.

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a2 ... =14#detail

I'm in no hurry. happy to wait for good crab. cheers drunk2
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby shirley_hkg » 06 Jun 2018, 03:07

Gnomatic wrote:shirley let me know when you are willing to purchase and ship some battery cells. I will pay. cheers drunk2




Check PM . cheers
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Furio » 24 Jun 2018, 14:27

Hi all,

Today completed assembly of 8 nos. 120Ah cells into a pack. :clap: I followed snaker's mode of "Rice pack",though not so perfect. :D Used 1mm silicone sheet (cheap and quality in India)and glass fiber tape for cricket bats. :mrgreen:

https://www.zenithrubberstore.com/shop/ ... ansculent/

I would like BM to give a preset for charging the set. :worship

Furio.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby expresso » 24 Jun 2018, 15:38

Furio wrote:Hi all,

Today completed assembly of 8 nos. 120Ah cells into a pack. :clap: I followed snaker's mode of "Rice pack",though not so perfect. :D Used 1mm silicone sheet (cheap and quality in India)and glass fiber tape for cricket bats. :mrgreen:

https://www.zenithrubberstore.com/shop/ ... ansculent/

I would like BM to give a preset for charging the set. :worship

Furio.



Nice - Snaker is on to something - i plan to do the same thing and try the Rice Cake wrap also - mines wont be as good as his or yours - looks good :thumbup:
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 24 Jun 2018, 16:43

Single cell and 8 cells.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Gnomatic » 27 Jun 2018, 16:08

Just for example, if you take one of those 120A cells that is fully charged, and discharge it @10A with a PL8 down to 2.9v - at that point, what would the % of remaining capacity be, roughly?
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 27 Jun 2018, 16:15

About 10%? VERY roughly. Because of resistance that voltage point comes earlier at high discharge rates. And later at low rates. To measure full capacity you set a CC discharge with a 2.5V CV low current end point say 0,1C. Will that damage a cell? It may, or may not.

Max rated capacity at 100% is when its down to a dangerously low level.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 27 Jun 2018, 17:29

With ead, you can take more than the batteries capacity from it. Ie you can go past 100Ah from a 100Ah battery. Its voltage drops to 9 or maybe 6 volts. That does a little damage but you can recharge and get back maybe 97% of what you had before.

With lithium you cause a lot of damage going below 2.5V. Or above 3.65V per cell. Theres no actual figure. They dont much like below about 2.7, or above about 3.5V. And dropping to 2.0V under load once or twice may not hurt if you :worship either. So its always best to just keep away from each end.

If you are a manufacturer you will charge to 3.65V, and discharge to 2V to measure ultimate capacity. But YOU should not! Althought thats exactly what a BMS does. Or much worse!
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 27 Jun 2018, 17:34

Its like this... ORANGE bits hurt the battery.

Usable-energy.png


and...

LITHIUM ENERGY USABLE AT SLOW AND FAST DISCHARGE RATES (if you want the cell to last avoid orange bits!!!)

Useable_Energy_Lithium.png


LEAD ENERGY USABLE AT SLOW AND FAST DISCHARGE RATES (if you dont want to kill it, avoid orange bits!)
Remember we can set off at 8mph, we have at best 16 miles range. Thats 2 hours. Look at the 2 hour rate... :fencing

Useable_Energy_Lead_Acid.png


LOOK AT THIS VERY CAREFULLY. IT EXPLAINS THE BIG DIFFERENCE WE SEE WITH LITHIUM ESP ON OFF ROAD OR FASTER CHAIRS.
Charts thanks to Victron Energy.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby expresso » 27 Jun 2018, 21:32

Burgerman wrote:With ead, you can take more than the batteries capacity from it. Ie you can go past 100Ah from a 100Ah battery. Its voltage drops to 9 or maybe 6 volts. That does a little damage but you can recharge and get back maybe 97% of what you had before.

With lithium you cause a lot of damage going below 2.5V. Or above 3.65V per cell. Theres no actual figure. They dont much like below about 2.7, or above about 3.5V. And dropping to 2.0V under load once or twice may not hurt if you :worship either. So its always best to just keep away from each end.

If you are a manufacturer you will charge to 3.65V, and discharge to 2V to measure ultimate capacity. But YOU should not! Althought thats exactly what a BMS does. Or much worse!



BM - the presets you made for me - and i been using since day one - works fine but they are all set to go up to 3.6V - is that Ok or should they be lowered ?

Only the Combined Chair preset is set at 3.525V because of the Lead -
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 27 Jun 2018, 22:03

Initial few charges must be at 3.60 or even 3.65 volts.
After its all balanced and behaving, you can lower that to 3.55V which is kinder. But it will take about 15% longer at CV to charge/balance.

So up to you. I use 3.55 mostly. We are already at 3.60V and the manufacturer states 3.65V. And the PL8 controls voltage well. So already kind. So unlike a BMS that repeatedly bounces cells over 3.7 or more for many hours we are already being nice to them.

You can charge at 3.50V if you want. It will still be full in the end. But slower to end charge and slower to balance, and balance achieved isnt quite as accurate. As in the voltage will tend to drift slightly more after the charge ends.

So the choice is yours!

Only the Combined Chair preset is set at 3.525V because of the Lead -

And also because its held at 3.525 for for hours because thats what the lead wants.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby expresso » 27 Jun 2018, 23:01

Ok - i understand the Combined part - lead etc, and reason to charge at the lower volt for that chair - i only brought it up because i notice you say it alot about keeping it below 3.6V and my presets are all 3.6V :D

i think i leave it alone its been working fine and like you said - its already lower and the PL 8 does a good job at keeping it accurate - and ends faster - better balance etc,

maybe i try it once or twice at 3.55V to see how much longer it would take - since it will be about another month before i get the chair repaired -

i just got my Cells in today - will check them later - fingers crossed
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby shirley_hkg » 06 Jul 2018, 14:49

Found this EVE-LF105 , same size as the 90A counterpart , but 105Ah . butred @£32
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 06 Jul 2018, 15:22

MEANING that you can fit 210Ah in place of lead, provided that you have JUST 4MM mm extra width available over a grp24 battery.

The math:
Cells are in mm:
130.3
37
200

37 x 8 = 296
37 x 4 = 148

We have a 240mm tall box. With 260 (or more) x 340 (or more although this way not an issue)
Arranged as
||||||||
||||||||
2 side by side is 260.6 (plus 3mm insulation from 1mm sheet so 263.6 total)
8 deep gives 296 (plus 9mm insulation so 305 total)

So with careful measuring it might just fit 16 cells.
210Ah in place of 74 (45 to 50 usable) So 5 to 6 times stock range. For £512

HOW MUCH will this cost to ship to UK in pounds for 16 cells and a huge 210Ah pack?
Thanks!
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Gnomatic » 06 Jul 2018, 18:58

I'd be very interested in those cells, but they won't fit in my chair's battery area. :fencing

I'm still thinking of taking my chances on a set of these .....

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7766&start=80#p118296
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 06 Jul 2018, 19:46

>>>I'd be very interested in those cells, but they won't fit in my chair's battery area. :fencing

Are you very sure? Because I think they will fit my (returned) storm, and the new salsa, and definitely the BM2/3 chairs. And the F55s, and the storm 3 in my garage.

They will fit any place a grp 24 battery like the MK will, as long as you have literally a couple of mm (3.6) clearance to slide in an MK longest side. Most chairs actually do. Make up a 263.6 x 309mm box, 210mm tall to allow for cables. If it will fit, so will these cells.

They are each 130 wide, So 2 is the same as an MK. the ones you link to are 135 wide. So need to be turned around. And then you get 150Ah rather than 210Ah with wasted space on 4 sides.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby ICEUK » 06 Jul 2018, 20:15

I would be very interested too, I will measure my.groove battery box. My lead batteries are fit for the tip.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby foghornleghorn » 06 Jul 2018, 20:50

Add me to the very interested list as well.

I'm going to get a second opinion on last weeks measuring as it came to 260 wide. If it is only that much, looking at the exploded parts diagram I may be able to have the battery tray cut and widened without affecting the motors moving up and down but needs someone to take the chair apart again to check.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 06 Jul 2018, 23:17

And when I get off this bed again in 2? weeks I will measure the width if the salsa chairs battery compartment sat 4 feet away.

Unless someone can do this for me easily? Anyone got one in bits that understands mm properly??
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Gnomatic » 07 Jul 2018, 01:30

Burgerman wrote:
They are each 130 wide, So 2 is the same as an MK. the ones you link to are 135 wide. So need to be turned around. And then you get 150Ah rather than 210Ah with wasted space on 4 sides.


If I ran two columns side by side and eight across it would be CLOSE, that wasn't how I was picturing orienting them. The 8 cells in the columns would be 11.65" or ~296mm, My battery area is about 13.66" wide side to side, or 347mm. So would fit easily with a couple inches to spare. Plenty for insulation, ballast ect.

The tricky part with my battery area is front to back. it has only 10.25", or a hair over 260mm. Not enough room for adequate insulation. I could mod my battery area with out a TON of hassle to give myself room for 10.75" front to back, in which case there'd be room for insulation. 210Ah, that would be IN-FREAKING-SANE!!! I could get two weels+ on a single charge in the winter LOL! But would take some work. I can't read Chinese but looks like those 105Ah cells are 195mm tall at the shoulder and 200mm to the terminal. Same as those 75Ah cells I believe.

Honestly, my 90A Headway pack I've been using since last summer has been awesome. Rarely leaves me wanting more, though it does occasionally happen that I know to stop sooner than I'd like. Either way, beats the hell out of lead bricks. So for me, jumping to a 150Ah pack would be a huge 60% more capacity jump. And extremely easy to fit.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 07 Jul 2018, 02:06

A hair over 260 is all you need. An extra 3.6mm to be exact, or in analog 1/8th inch. That allows a plastic or polyethelene 1mm sheet (credit card thickness and a bit) in the 3 places its required. One between the two centre cells. And one down each side. So how much is that hair EXACTLY? If its 3.6mm you are good to go. To give you an idea, on a typical 100dpi PC screen you need this much extra __ and that is 5mm! You need just 3.6!

3 bits 1mm thick, x 200 tall, and 305mm long. Thats one down the centre, one each side, taped or glued on with contact adhesive.
Then...
2 bits 1mm thick, x 200 tall 263.6 wide. For the other two outer edges.
Then... As cell dividers, 14 bits 1mm thick that are 200 tall 130mm wide.
Then a BOTTOM that is 2mm thick, and 306 x 263.6mm to sit the whole thing on.

A smear of silicone RTV or contact adhesive to attach the sides, seperators etc. Then tape with duct tape or fibreglass tape all the outer seams or corners just in case. You will then have one solid brick. 200 tall, 307mm long, 263.6 wide. Or change measuremets a little and have 2x 210Ah 12V ones. Or two 105Ah 24v ones...

Heres why I think you will not have an issue. https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteri ... x/xdc24mf/
Some group 24 batteries are a few mm smaller or larger than 260mm. 252 up to 266 seem quite easy to find. So they must fit.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby shirley_hkg » 07 Jul 2018, 02:35

Burgerman wrote:MEANING that you can fit 210Ah in place of lead, provided that you have JUST 4MM mm extra width available over a grp24 battery.

The math:
Cells are in mm:
130.3
37
200

37 x 8 = 296
37 x 4 = 148

We have a 240mm tall box. With 260 (or more) x 340 (or more although this way not an issue)
Arranged as
||||||||
||||||||
2 side by side is 260.6 (plus 3mm insulation from 1mm sheet so 263.6 total)
8 deep gives 296 (plus 9mm insulation so 305 total)

So with careful measuring it might just fit 16 cells.
210Ah in place of 74 (45 to 50 usable) So 5 to 6 times stock range. For £512

HOW MUCH will this cost to ship to UK in pounds for 16 cells and a huge 210Ah pack?
Thanks!



cheers

shirley_hkg wrote: goodpost Air freight : £6.75 / kg to UK ; custom fee included . No more extra at all . That's what I've been told. :worship

EVE-LF90 , Rated --- 3C (5C max) ; IR @ 0.5mΩ .

90Ah cell , 2017/8/31 NOS @£27.50 :clap

* * * * unknow batch NOS @£18.80 :dance

EVE-LF105 105Ah * * * * 2018 batch NOS @£32.00 :dance

Any guinea pig ? ? ? drunk2
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 07 Jul 2018, 09:14

goodpost Air freight : £6.75 / kg to UK ; custom fee included . No more extra at all . That's what I've been told. :worship


But how much will a package weigh all boxed up? 105Ah cells. x 16 plus packaging etc.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 07 Jul 2018, 09:21

What about slo boat?
Is it possible?

Because the 6.75 kg is more expensive than the cells. It may be cheaper to send my ex gf to hong kong or china to carry back in her handbag :cussing
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby shirley_hkg » 07 Jul 2018, 10:17

Cell weights 1980g.
16 of them will be 35Kg , including packings.

Post office won't take batteries . :fencing
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 07 Jul 2018, 10:40

237 shipping + 16 105Ah cells = 750 uk pounds for a 210Ah pack. Still good price! I just need a salsa accurate measurement.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby Burgerman » 07 Jul 2018, 10:52

237 shipping + 16 105Ah cells = 750 uk pounds for a 210Ah pack. Still good price! I just need a salsa accurate measurement. And will then order.

So lets see.
Salsa claimed range is 27 miles. From a 70Ah grp 24 at best you get to use 45Ah.

So with 210Ah, and use 200 for safety, from the lithium, you get around 4.2x better range.
27 iso standard miles, becomes: multiplied by the 4.2 = 113 miles. Or 182km.

So for £500 you get 2x MK, and 1 years use, and 27 miles.
For £750 delivered from china, you get 113 miles and a 6 to 10 year lifespan, fast charging in a few hours, and save 50lb of weight.
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Re: Sinopoly Cells - Info -

Postby shirley_hkg » 07 Jul 2018, 12:05

On second thought , 105Ah cells are rare and not heard of any review . Not worthwhile .

90Ah one is better .
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