Sinopoly Cells - Info -

[expresso]

thanks - that one is a 3S - i would need 4S -

i never purchased stuff from there - takes too long - there has to be some of those here in the States -

i been finding cables that are just single ended and bare on the other side - i would love to find a 4S - with male on one end and bare on the other end - then same for Female end and bare also -

this way i can solder longer wire if needed - i dont mind extending the cable - i just want the ends to be made already - male and female end -'''


Just found this one - this should be fine ?
https://www.amazon.com/HOBBYMATE-Chargi ... l_huc_item

i would cut one end and connect to the chair -

then cut and extend another cable to solder on charge cable -

[Burgerman]

You dont want a bare one. You want good quality 4s ones that have a plug and socket. You cut the cable in half, and the plug goes on the battery. The socket goes on your chair side SUB-D connector...

Quality ones can be bought from Revolectrix / cellpro. You likely already have some 36 inch 8S ones. And you could use these. But they sell 4S too to make it simple. http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... sion-Cable

[expresso]

- i would rather get the correct 4s model to keep it cleaner - the link shows a board attached on one end - like they do with the 8S also

i always received them with both ends male and female - if the 4s are the same - then i would use those - better i wont have to extend them -

thanks -

[expresso]

You dont want a bare one. You want good quality 4s ones that have a plug and socket. You cut the cable in half, and the plug goes on the battery. The socket goes on your chair side SUB-D connector...

Quality ones can be bought from Revolectrix / cellpro. You likely already have some 36 inch 8S ones. And you could use these. But they sell 4S too to make it simple. http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Produc ... sion-Cable

if i can use the 8S - how would that work - ? just curious -

i think using the 4S would be cleaner ? i cant vision how to use the 8S if i have to split them

[Burgerman]

Cut 4 wires off one, and then look at it again!

[shirley_hkg]

These Sinopoly's are interesting. Would be a lot simpler to convert a chair to lithium with eight of these vs. assembling dozens of Headway cells into a pack ect.

Who's going to be the guinea pig?

Didn't snaker has gone long ago , with just 16@75Ah cells for his 24V 170Ah power house ? .

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&p=106406#p106406

[expresso]

Cut 4 wires off one, and then look at it again!

ok i get it - for some reason i was thinking i had to solder two sets of the wiring on the same pin - stupid me -

i can just use those also - i would when the time comes get the 4S anyway -

with these cells its alot easier for me to explain to others also - to show how simple it can be now this way - its less intimidating looking at 8 Cells with 7 connectors compared to 56 with so many buss bars etc, -

if these cells work out - this can be done in a few weekends for me once all wiring is already made -

would you use the same preset that was used for charging ONE headway 15ah cell ? and just up the charge rate ? since these are 100ah each -

can use 15 or 20A charge rate ? that would take about 4 hours easy if not fully drained - 24 hours for 8 Cells - then build it - test it - discharge - recharge and install - you would get it done in a few days -

i would need a few weekends - thats great - either way -

[shirley_hkg]

AND has created a GUINNESS RECORD shortly after his battery installed .


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=3160

My maddest range: 83km/89.5 returned Ah.

I think you've created a GUINNESS WORLD RECORD already .

Truely , 83km in less than 6 hours for a wheelchair is hard to break .

[Burgerman]

would you use the same preset that was used for charging ONE headway 15ah cell ? and just up the charge rate ? since these are 100ah each -

can use 15 or 20A charge rate ? that would take about 4 hours easy if not fully drained - 24 hours for 8 Cells - then build it - test it - discharge - recharge and install - you would get it done in a few days -

Make a copy of your 90Ah chair profile. Rename to LiFePO4 1S 100Ah. Then just change the 8S to 1S in the first tab... And save.
Or use the single cell one and increase charge Amps, and set termination current to the same as your 90Ah pack.

[expresso]

AND has created a GUINNESS RECORD shortly after his battery installed .


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1813&start=3160

My maddest range: 83km/89.5 returned Ah.

I think you've created a GUINNESS WORLD RECORD already .

Truely , 83km in less than 6 hours for a wheelchair is hard to break .

thats a long ride - how fast do you need to go to get that done in 6 hours ? - the most i have done is 44 miles - Snaker has the best setup now with range and speed -

[expresso]

would you use the same preset that was used for charging ONE headway 15ah cell ? and just up the charge rate ? since these are 100ah each -

can use 15 or 20A charge rate ? that would take about 4 hours easy if not fully drained - 24 hours for 8 Cells - then build it - test it - discharge - recharge and install - you would get it done in a few days -

Make a copy of your 90Ah chair profile. Rename to LiFePO4 1S 100Ah. Then just change the 8S to 1S in the first tab... And save.
Or use the single cell one and increase charge Amps, and set termination current to the same as your 90Ah pack.

my pack is 105ah - but same thing close enough - got it -

Where do you see that - First Tab - Change 8S to 1S ?

General Tab - ? i dont see where i would make that change - or maybe i have to have the Charger on -

[garriew]

Has anyone actually used these before? It's a lot of money to spend for crap batteries.

[Gnomatic]

According to BM, folks into EV's claim they're pretty good.

[Burgerman]

There are tests on all the different makes on a few EV forums. The blue calb cells, the black sinopoly, and the yellow winston cells all seem much the same. The headways are a little higher current or c rated for where pack is small and demand is high. But they are fiddly to use compared to bigger capacity cells. So swings and roundabouts... I am going to buy 8 sinopoly black cells and test. For capacity etc. Cant really test for 2000 cycles though! Can only measure resistance and capacity.

[Burgerman]

Where do you see that - First Tab - Change 8S to 1S ?

Under detection>cells> set to 1. But it may still insist on a cell balance connection! Stupid profiles.

So you may be better to adjust Amps and termination mA in the single cell profile I did already as that wont need a cell voltage balance connection. So its simpler..

[expresso]

Where do you see that - First Tab - Change 8S to 1S ?

Under detection>cells> set to 1. But it may insist on a cell balance connection! Stupid profiles.

So you may be better to adjust Amps and termination mA in the single cell profile I did already as that wont need a cell voltage balance connection. So its simpler..

Ok got it - i checked you can do it - its set to AUTO DETECT now - i can change that to 1 - will do next time i power up the charger and Add the new preset

thanks

[Burgerman]

Wont work without a balance wire even when set to 1 (I dont think). It uses the balance connection to determine cell count and will think there are non. So will give a cell count error...

Read slowly!

Under detection>cells> set to 1. But it may still insist on a cell balance connection! Stupid profiles.

So you may be better to adjust Amps and termination mA in the single cell profile I did already as that wont need a cell voltage balance connection. So its simpler..

[expresso]

Ok - i can use the preset for the ONE cell you did already - raise the termination - and raise the charge amps - what would be a good charge rate - 20A ?

i will try it next time i power up the charger anyway to see

well i can make the change - but would have to actually have the cell and try it - which i dont - you would have them first to test - and know for sure -

[Burgerman]

You can charge at 40A if you wish. I do. But they like it better at 20. As in will have a longer life.

Lithium is very sensitive to charge and discharge rates.

At 1/10th of C (or 10A on a 100Ah cell) for charge and discharge you will get 2 to 5 thousand cycles to 80% discharge.
At 20A you may get 1500 to 4 thousand.
At 40A you may get 1 to 2 thousand.
At 100A or 1C continuous you may get 1000 cycles or less.

Same with voltages.
Stay well away from anything below 3.00v or even 3.100v in use or above 3.500V on charge and get 2 or 3 times the cycle life that you will get at the max capacity of 3.650V and 2.500V needed for max capacity.

Lithium likes it in the middle, where its got 30 to 70% charge, and where all charge and discharge currents are low. Then they last for decades and dont deteriorate noticibly. But at the same time you do have to use them! Its all about understanding this, and using them and planning accordingly.

As such if you are in a hurry, or going a long way, or have no choice but to have a small pack, you CAN charge FAST. And Charge to 3.65V. Use a BMS that overvolts the cells for ease of use. Discharge them to 99% daily. Etc. But they wont last very long. Its all about choice and understanding. And as you can see a larger pack will last much longer.

[expresso]

yeah - i mean at the rate i use them - they should last 10 years easy - when i do use them - i do use them all up most of the times - i been down to 3.1V on the full pack - but its better now that i added the extra 30ah - so its hard to get it down that low unless i do close to 50 miles - i would have to try hard to do that much distance

i was asking for the first time charge before you build the pack - if i charge at 20A - can take a good 4 hours each Cell - - would take a few days to bring them all up to full - before the first build - and in my case would take a week to discharge using the PL 8 its slow but a week isnt too bad - or i have to get one of the dump things you and Genomatic are using - to discharge it faster

i just dont have room for all this stuff

[Burgerman]

Connect say 4 together at a time, and charge at full power. At a typical 50% charge that will take 5 hours, twice?

And you have 3 chargers!
So connect 2 together at a time or 3... Charge at 40A each charger.

[expresso]

thats true - i actually have 3 chargers - i got an extra just in case - its in the closet for a backup - with 12 PSU -

i can use the two chargers - at the same time - i though it was best to do ONE Cell at a time for the first time - - actually they suggest to connect them all together and charge first time this way -

instead of 100ah 3.2v cell - make a large 800ah 3.2v pack and charge - unless i am mistaken -

i figured it would be best to do one at a time for the very first charge -

4 at a time dosnt sound bad - with 2 chargers - will be done same day -

even one at a time will make this build alot faster than using the 56 headways a few weeks compared to a few months or more

i still like the headways - but i look forward to hearing your results once you test them - i scraped doing this chair with the head ways - but now with these cells - i am going to revisit the idea - and itching to do it at some point

[Burgerman]

We did each headway seperately with the same cut off terminal current so we knew they were all charged to the exact same level.

Thats because we then measured the refill after a month. So we knew the discharge rates to assemble sets of cells that had the same average discharge rates. Since we cant do that with 1 cell per group (because they are 100Ah already) then anything close to full is adequate. Because the final bit will be balanced by the PL8 on charge once assembles. What we cant know is if each 100Ah cell has equal self discharge rate over time. If it doesent, then storing the chair will put it more out of balance faster. If we are lucky it will be fine. If we are not then we may need to top up charge more often to balance it up.

[snaker]

Has anyone actually used these before? It's a lot of money to spend for crap batteries.

I built a 150Ah pack (138Ah in reality) by prismatic cells bought from taobao. Until now it works fine and I am enjoying the very long range it offers. My trips are usually 80km or more and there are still many unused Ah. In coming days, I will drain the pack to see how far a powerchair could run in a single trip.

[expresso]

80km is about 50 miles - thats a long ride - you beat me for sure

what time do you wake up and go out to ride - what time do you return ?

its great though

[snaker]

My time is 05:00 wake up, 07:30 go out, 15:00 get back home.

I am driving people in my family mad. They do not like that I go alone in long time

[LROBBINS]

Expresso, If Snaker's schedule seems awful early to you, do remember that Vietnam is a tropical country and it gets exceedingly hot in the afternoon.

[expresso]

My time is 05:00 wake up, 07:30 go out, 15:00 get back home.

I am driving people in my family mad. They do not like that I go alone in long time

what time is that when you get back 15:00 ? i am not good at translating military time - would that be around 5 pm in the evening ?

yeah i get the same thing here about going alone for so long and far - but what can you do - you are most likely the only user in your country with lithium - so your stuck going alone like i am here also - i may have some company this summer - i am putting my ADD ON 36ah pack on my friends chair - she wants to try it out - so maybe she can ride along this summer on some of the trips - she will still have to take a bus at least up to the bridge in order to ride the whole trip i take - ADD ON alone is not enough - but if she takes the bus up to the Bridge first - saves a good 9 miles -

i am the only person i know that is using lithium here in NYC - so i have to go solo

[Burgerman]

3

[expresso]

Expresso, If Snaker's schedule seems awful early to you, do remember that Vietnam is a tropical country and it gets exceedingly hot in the afternoon.

yeah i guess it would be different - i just cant get up early and start rushing etc, to get ready - i try hard to get out of the house around 11 am to do the long rides in order to get back around 5pm or 6pm - but i have to try to get started earlier this summer on some trips just to try to break the 44 mile mark - curious if i can get 50 miles out of my 135ah battery -

i know i have to get up and out by about 10am i think

i usually dont end up falling asleep till about 2am or 3am - i am in bed by around 12:30am but dont fall asleep that fast