My project chair is currently using the original 16 year old Pilot + with 100A controller and an old Helix tilt controller, with 8.5mph 4 pole motors. It functions ok, but goes into thermal rollback rather easily & always had/has a problem with uneven inclines, and wanting to spin me in the direction of least resistance... once right into the door of my freshly painted Camaro
Burgerman wrote:The screws actually go into the bracket. I tapped all of mine M4 and used 2x cap (allen) screws.
Burgerman wrote:A sure sign of motor compensation set too low. And the faster the motors the lower the torque, which also causes that same issue.
And setting the temp of rollback from 50 to 70C will mostly cure the rollback issue.
As for which system, the best one is whatever you can get a full oem level programmer for. And the highest Amps.
Burgerman wrote:OEM for rnet? Steve does, I do, obviously rover and a few others on here. You can too but its really not cheap and may involve ordering from the US!
You are lining up all the things that dont go together. Off road, fast motors, lead batteries!
You will struggle with rollback, since Amps cause heat. An 8mph motor takes DOUBLE the amps of a 4mph motor, and 25% extra compared to 6mph... At every single movement, regardless of speed. And that sucks a lot out of the battery leaving a lower voltage under load, requiring yet more Amps! Not to mention the reduced torque. So its hard to know if the vague steering is caused by a lack of available amps, rollback, motor compensation, or battery voltage dropping in response to compensation asking for more amps... You have the full set that hurt each other going on!
Theres a very good reason I choose 6mph / 120A / 4 pole on my new chair...
I like control, range, and torque. Its way more important than an extra 2mph.
shirley_hkg wrote:
Usually , reprogramme your chair will solve those problems , at least 80% satisfaction .
FYI, true track applies to GB motors only .
4 poles use gyroscope. G-trac .
Burgerman wrote:OEM for rnet? Steve does, I do, obviously rover and a few others on here. You can too but its really not cheap and may involve ordering from the US!
You are lining up all the things that dont go together. Off road, fast motors, lead batteries!
You will struggle with rollback, since Amps cause heat. An 8mph motor takes DOUBLE the amps of a 4mph motor, and 25% extra compared to 6mph... At every single movement, regardless of speed. And that sucks a lot out of the battery leaving a lower voltage under load, requiring yet more Amps! Not to mention the reduced torque. So its hard to know if the vague steering is caused by a lack of available amps, rollback, motor compensation, or battery voltage dropping in response to compensation asking for more amps... You have the full set that hurt each other going on!
Theres a very good reason I choose 6mph / 120A / 4 pole on my new chair...
I like control, range, and torque. Its way more important than an extra 2mph.
Today I lost my first green bar, but shortly after that, the battery meter dive bombed down to one flashing red led. It was just under 22V when I hooked it up the the PL8. I’m at 3:27 hrs as I type, with 34,500 mAh returned and back to 26.688v.
Burgerman wrote:Today I lost my first green bar, but shortly after that, the battery meter dive bombed down to one flashing red led. It was just under 22V when I hooked it up the the PL8. I’m at 3:27 hrs as I type, with 34,500 mAh returned and back to 26.688v.
22V with lithium is dead. Under load thats way too low. I wouldnt be surprised to see battery or at least the lowest cells to be way below the average at that end point. And possibly damaged.
Also, 34Ah returned means you took out about 31Ah? What is the packs capacity? And what voltage is the lowest cell?
34Ah pack is too small. You will damage it.
Guess I shouldn’t have trusted the joystick meter.
Burgerman wrote:Guess I shouldn’t have trusted the joystick meter.
You can never trust a joystick meter even with lead. You certainly cant use it with lithium. As soon as 1 light goes out or possibly 2 depending on joystick, you are using. You may well be done! Or you should at least be checking with CELL checker to be sure the lowest cell isnt TOO low. Life cells stay at around the same voltage for much of the charge. Then drop off a cliff towards the end. A battery fuel gauge cant tell you anything other than, oops, we are done! When it starts to drop fast its over.
If the lowest cell was above 2.6V then you likely got away with it. As long as all cells balance easily, and the pack stays in balance. I suggest never going below about 3V per cell in use. You shouldnt be draining it beyond about 90% really. After this, stop!
snaker wrote:@hotwheels_75: fit a voltmeter to monitor the pack's voltage. Stop and call a rescue if you see the voltage drops under 24.8V (22V is too dangerous). We had to spend a lot of money and time and labor to build the pack, we should protect it
ex-Gooserider wrote:Motor comp is a value that you need to 'sneak up' on... Lower it 5mOhms at a time and test the chair thoroughly - if it responds smoothly and with good control go for another 5mOhms... If it seems 'jumpy' then go back to the previous setting....
ex-Gooserider wrote:
Probably the simplest way to step down on the motors is to look for the motors used in the 6.5 mph version of your chair - check the parts manuals for the relevant part numbers. This typically will work because the manufacturers normally use the same style motors on the different speed options, with the only difference being the internals of the gearbox. Thus the different speeds are interchangeable on the same model chair...
ex-Gooserider wrote:What I've been told about the best way to do 'gas gage' on a Lithium pack is to get a 4-digit LED voltmeter and wire it to always read when the chair is on. As you use the chair, the voltage will drop under load - keep an eye on how much it drops, and especially how long it takes to recover back to the unloaded voltage. As the battery discharges it will drop further, and take longer to recover. With a bit of practice you will get a feel for how to 'read' that voltage drop pattern and know when it is time to recharge and how much it will take.
I have found very low cost 'bare board' meters on Ebay that use 3 wires.... I plan to wire the power wire across any lines I find in the pod that switch on and off, and the sensor to the XLR hot wire. I just need to figure out the best way to 'pot' the board and then glue it to the top of my Pilot+ pod...
ex-Gooserider
Burgerman wrote:Remember that each of the 8 groups of cells run out of power at different times. And that when you do the voltage of that cell group will drop like a rock only.
So if you are running low enough to get even close to empty you need to watch at the cell group level. You need a meter that shows 8 seperate voltages.
sin85 wrote:are you saying that you drained 96Ah lithium pack after 10km?!? Must have been real rough terrain.
Burgerman wrote:Housework, sweeping up, turning left right, grass, gardens, slopes, hills, all use easily 10x more power than driving in straight lines, so its possible to do what you said you did.
Turning left, at zero speed, uses 100A per motor to turn. Every time you do it.
Driving at max speed uses maybe 10A or 15A or so.
Driving up a hill, anything up to 100A or greater..
Grass? Doubles everything.
Solid tyres, add a few amps.
Tired less efficient motors, maybe adds 10% wasted energy
Nose heavy chair, eats power on turns.
I can kill a set of lead batteries leaf blowing the crap off my drive and garden. In say 1 hour. And get roll back and no power3 or 4 times over!
Same chair will go 3 hours at 6 mph non stop and do 18 miles. In a straight line. But not if I waste a load of power getting ready in a morning around the house. That halves it.
snaker wrote:@hotwheels_75: Can you fit a camera and record your off-road in a couple of km? I am really tempted to see the way you drain 10Ah/1km
A 4-digit voltmeter is easy but good and safe enough, fit it before your next 'draining test'.
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