Motor Dead

[expresso]

Well it finally happened - didnt expect it but looks like my motors are shot or at least one motor may be - i think its the right side

on my 646 lithium Chair - not happy now but have to deal with it - i just got home from a nice ride and it crapped out - got motor error on my Joystick

i decided to charge and will double check it when done - but i noticed the chair was jerky sticky wasnt moving when trying to turn in tight slow areas

i heard a noise as if its stuck and not moving when i moved the JS to make it turn - it wounldnt - going in reverse was hard and sticky -

about 3800 miles on the chair - how can i know for sure to test it somehow ? any simple way for me to check it with the programmer ?

and its summer time with no chair -

[martin007]

about 3800 miles on the chair

In how many years?

[expresso]

about 2 summers really - this would have been the 3rd summer - i use it hard for a good 4 months in the summer - then i dont use it much at all

the first year hardly used - on Lead only - when i went to lithium - then all hell broke loose and i was going on long rides alot - i didnt expect it this soon though

i though it was my tires being air and sticky rubber - or my settings - but i guess it was the motors - on just sitting still - i tried to turn and i hear a noise like a stalled motor trying to move but cant - or in reverse it was sticky also -

i just got home from a nice 27 mile ride in a new park i found quite a distance away and it died when i was in my home - which is great considering -

but now i am pissed - its summer - going thru insurance will take time - i dont have a spare set of motors for this chair - if they werent so expensive i would buy them and just change them out on my own -

bright side - i have a new chair in the works but may not be here for a few months - - have to go back to lead and ADD ON - which is ok but limited distance compared to 135ah lithium

[Burgerman]

If it was jerky or intermittent, may just be brushes. Those are not expensive. And swap in 5 mins per side.

If something terminal has happened to gearbox or motors like broken magnets or burned out armature, etc, then its new motor time. I replace mine every 2 years as amatter of course, because from experience I know what happens if you dont ndwalking home isnt an option.

Set of motors isnt the end of the world. They can be fitted in an hour. And at least here are about 700 to 1k per set retail dep on motor. And a good bit cheaper if you find a freindly dealer. And for money on ebay.

EG these will fit yourchair, once the mounting, and hub areswapped over. And likely barely used.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QUICKIE-JIVE ... SwaZFbAFAh

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-QUICKIE-JI ... 0005.m1851

[martin007]

I replace mine every 2 years as amatter of course

How many kilometers do you travel each year?

[Burgerman]

Motor wear, has nothing to do with distance.

It has to do with CURRENT! Amps. Heat. If you program your chairs like I do, they fail fast. Since it makes the chair jump when told! If you program it to actually respond and then USE it hard, they take 100A at every turn, every hard acceleration, every wheelie, and so on. If you do a few hundred miles like that they will break! Likewise, if you are heavy, live on a hill, they will soon fail due to heat soak, and Amps burning brushes, making motor couplings/ cush drive rubbers fail, and gears wear fast. And the all important magnets become weaker. You lose efficiency and torque.

The opposite is true. Used lightly Stock mushy programming, lightweight user, mostly in straight lines, few hills, less indoor use (which eats motors faster) and your motors may last easily 10x longer.

[expresso]

who knows whats wrong with them - i am hoping and its a long shot - that maybe from cleaning the girl may have hit the brake release level etc, to make it free wheel - or it was just touched enough - who knows - but i dont think its going to be that easy -

its the motor i feel 99.9% they are not cheap here - about $1000 each brand new - the links you posted on ebay - seem to be the correct motor - like you said change out the hub etc, but not sure if those are 8.5 motors or ??

also i wont feel good about using them as they are - they are used - maybe just as bad as mines when i get them - but good to buy and get rebuilt for a spare set - i have to see what i will do -

if its the motors - i will try to get new ones from insurance and ride it out waiting a month - - then keep the old ones - send them out to be rebuilt and hold as a spare - thats the best option but will be out of my long distance chair - i am hoping its only a month - -

the steps are - call for tech to come inspect it - - if they feel its the motors - then they just order new motors - they dont play around checking if its brushes or what ever - which is fine with me - but then it goes to insurance which can take time - to get approved and then ordered and then installed -

which means it will cut into half my summer at least -

[martin007]

The motors of my powerchair are 19 years old.
I only change the brushes.

* I live on a plateau and I am thin.

[Burgerman]

Heres a few I killed in 8 years. Between 98 and 2006.

And that wasnt all of them by a long way. Some were returned under warranty, and some repaired by me, and ebayed $$$...

[expresso]

Motor wear, has nothing to do with distance.

It has to do with CURRENT! Amps. Heat. If you program your chairs like I do, they fail fast. Since it makes the chair jump when told! If you program it to actually respond and then USE it hard, they take 100A at every turn, every hard acceleration, every wheelie, and so on. If you do a few hundred miles like that they will break! Likewise, if you are heavy, live on a hill, they will soon fail due to heat soak, and Amps burning brushes, making motor couplings/ cush drive rubbers fail, and gears wear fast. And the all important magnets become weaker. You lose efficiency and torque.

The opposite is true. Used lightly Stock mushy programming, lightweight user, mostly in straight lines, few hills, less indoor use (which eats motors faster) and your motors may last easily 10x longer.

i think this what happened - its reprogrammed for sure - but not as aggressive as yours but its much more responsive - add in the long miles i put on it - alot of hills - constant use - once this is resolved - i will have a spare set on hand and have them done every two years like you say is the best way to be sure not to get stuck - i really felt they were strong up to very recently - but i though it was the tires sticky rubber - my programming etc, - didnt think they would die

after i charge i will double check it -- and have to remove my ADD ON from this chair to put on my back up lead chair - will have to hold me off till i get this fixed or i get my new chair - i am still looking at over a month i believe -

[martin007]

and some repaired by me

How you repair a broken motor?

[Burgerman]

Knackered brushes... Clean up commutator if burned, replace brushes.



Failed or destroyed cush drive rubbers as above are the two failures that can be fixed easily.
I changed brushes these as needed and now these are checked every 6 months (lesson learned!), and scush drive rubber couplings are now strengthened from new BEFORE they break...

[martin007]

Your powerchairs are stressed ...

[expresso]

i cant do what you do BM in terms of all the replacing fixed myself - but i hope to at least put myself in a better position once i get new motors -

will send the old ones to be rebuild and then keep as a spare - then in two years - replace it and do the same thing over back and forth - i just needed a set of motors which i dont have -

i would even buy them off ebay if i can find them for my chair correct speed - and have them rebuilt while i wait for insurance - i have to search - but they have to be correct motors - 8.5 mph

[Burgerman]

The motors of my powerchair are 19 years old.
I only change the brushes.

* I live on a plateau and I am thin.

You dont USE them hard, your programming and attitude wont allow it.


Watch. Testing programming. I reduced the turn acceleration to 90% on this old chair. And it made it respond slow... It is here slow/delayed/innaccurate. You will think this is responsive, and that I am a bit mad. But this is how I drive 24/7 indoors or out!

6.2mph (10kph) through narrow doors, while wheelie is normal daily use to me. This is a rear drive wheelchair. With old tired batteries, and a 20 stone user. (thats 130kg user!) This takes Amps! The turn response means 100A at every turn, forwards?100A maxed out. EVERY time.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/control.mp4

[martin007]

I understand.

P.S. You have a beautiful house.

[Burgerman]

I am lucky. I wasnt always disabled, so ran several businesses and bought and paid for my house before my accident.

[Burgerman]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/quickie-jive ... 0005.m1851

These also fit...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/quickie-jive ... Sw9N5bIlzI

And these...

[expresso]

how can i know for sure they are correct speed ? also thats in the UK - not sure if they will ship it to me and the cost -

i will ask though anyway -

but i need to be sure of the speed -

[expresso]

i checked the chair again - finished charging - it works - and no error shows on the JS - BUT it is still sticky jerky when moving it slow speeds and if sitting still and trying to turn to the right - it stalls dosnt move at times - i hear noise going to the motor but no movement -

but it works in terms of turning on and not getting an error - clearly something is wrong with the motor i believe - - so i cant feel safe using it now

i will call it in for repair and have the tech check it and hopefully he will just order new motors and thats it -

i removed the ADD On pack and put it on my other chair - i wish i had more lithium inside this chair than 105ah now - but that was the best i can do at that time -

if the JS showed an error before - it should be logged ? i should be able to see it if i connect the dongle ?

i want to save that for the tech to see what it shows - to prove it had a motor error -

i am glad its moving at least but cant use it to ride - last thing i need is to get stuck 40 miles away or even 3 miles away - not good - i am with BM on this one with making sure to have spare motors - most important - and hope to do be in that position this year - with spare motors on hand -

too bad i have a spare set but its those larger i guess german motors - for the p222se chair - they need to be rebuilt though - i wouldnt use them that way but they are here sitting - now i need to do the same for this motor - chair to be safe - and will follow the every 2 years - swap them and rebuilt -

[expresso]

brake fault is the error - it works but never know when it wont - and its sticky trying to turn to the right - i dont think they can fix it - they would have to replace both motors i hope

[shirley_hkg]

May be brake is dragging , so you hardly started .

[Burgerman]

Clear the errors, drive the chair, check again. If the motor open circuit error happens, only, then you have a brush problem.

[elryko1992]

Its not worth to buy from UK the ship is very expensive to USA because is heavy motors 18-20KG, check on USA ebay is more motors for you.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Quickie-Pulse-6- ... SwL6tanZNP

And

https://m.ebay.com/itm/QUICKIE-QM-710-P ... SwTodbJ-x9

[elryko1992]

how can i know for sure they are correct speed ? also thats in the UK - not sure if they will ship it to me and the cost -

i will ask though anyway -

but i need to be sure of the speed -

To see the correct speed look to RPM: 163 is 10KM, for 8.5 MPH i don't know maybe more than 200 RPM

[Burgerman]

how can i know for sure they are correct speed ? also thats in the UK - not sure if they will ship it to me and the cost -

i will ask though anyway -

No. Look on the US ebay!

[expresso]

May be brake is dragging , so you hardly started .

that may be the case - but theres no way for me to do anything about it - other than call it in to be checked

[expresso]

Clear the errors, drive the chair, check again. If the motor open circuit error happens, only, then you have a brush problem.

i want to leave the errors so they can see if they want - the tech - which i dont think they would even check it anyway

the chair moves and if i am moving forward fast seems fine but now that i know - i realize its been a while this way - i just never though it was a motor or brake etc, - this is why the chair was sticky and jerky when trying to turn on the spot with out moving - and mostly when i try to move it to the right

left works - and when going in reverse - its sticky - i was blaming it no my tires etc, and maybe my programming but now i see its not - tires may affect it somewhat - but not like this - i hear the motor stalling and chair dosnt move when i turn to the right at a certain angle on the JS - if i move it a different angle to the right - it may move -

i dont want to use it now at all - i know theres an issue that needs to be fixed - and i dont see them trying to replace just one item , and brushes only

which is fine with me - get me new motors hopefully - going to make the call today for repair tech to come check it -

it seems if i have the momentum in motion - works - its when going slow or turning in tight small areas like elevator - in the home - etc

[expresso]

how can i know for sure they are correct speed ? also thats in the UK - not sure if they will ship it to me and the cost -

i will ask though anyway -

but i need to be sure of the speed -

To see the correct speed look to RPM: 163 is 10KM, for 8.5 MPH i don't know maybe more than 200 RPM

yes thats right - i have to check mines -

[expresso]

Its not worth to buy from UK the ship is very expensive to USA because is heavy motors 18-20KG, check on USA ebay is more motors for you.

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Quickie-Pulse-6- ... SwL6tanZNP

And

https://m.ebay.com/itm/QUICKIE-QM-710-P ... SwTodbJ-x9

thanks - have to be careful with some of these models - i am not sure the motors came 8.5 on those chairs - 710 its not - 720 someone i know has one and its 8 mph - so something is different even though the outside motors are the same