60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Power wheelchair board for REAL info!

POWERCHAIR MENU! www.wheelchairdriver.com/powerchair-stuff.htm

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 20 Aug 2018, 21:29

What do I think? I think they are idiots. Should be OK. Is there a fuse in the addon cable? Should have popped that. Thats why its there. If connected much longer then a cable would melt!
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 20 Aug 2018, 22:02

yeah we know that most are idiots - i mean they just had to check it with volt meter to make sure - they didnt -

No - there is no Fuse on the ADD ON - the chair is fused - her batteries are fused - but not the ADD ON - mines isnt either - no problems - at the very start - i did have a fuse on line in my chair for the ADD ON - 30A marine boat fuse - and it blew about a year later - i have since removed it and never used a fuse on the ADD ON -

since the chair is already fused - and when charging the PL 8 is fused - so never done it - my chair also no fuse on the ADD ON - just the chair fuse which came with a breaker - never popped once in 5 years -

my full chair - if you recall - first summer after i installed the 105ah pack - nothing was fused at all - haha - once i figure it out - of course i added the 100A breaker which i like -

i will take a look at it on Wed. and we will fix the cable and connect and recharge it up - using the 3.6V present - it has AGM now -

Having the Fuse on the ADD ON would have protected the ADD ON in this kind of event ? what size fuse would be good to use in this setup - maybe in the winter - can take it apart - make a new wire with fuse on the ADD ON line for her if it makes her feel safer -

i feel fine the way mines is - its connected - all good - and charged as one pack - chair is fused from factory - - never gave it any more though - this was one of those things that was overlooked by her at the moment - i think its fine though - split sec, and disconnected - wire got hot thats about it - dosnt look damaged or melted at least from a quick glance - will check it better on Wed.

thanks
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby ex-Gooserider » 20 Aug 2018, 23:26

Fuses are totally UN-necessary - as long as everything works! But as most of us know "Fecal material happens" and when it does, a fuse can save your butred .......

"Best Practice" Calls for a fuse, sized to either the connected load, or the wire size as close to any power SOURCE as possible - the objective is to disable the power no matter where the short occurs.

In addition, if a circuit branches to smaller gage wires, there should be a fuse sized to that smaller wire in each branch, unless the fuse for the 'trunk' is only sized to match the smallest branch... (If the only fuse is sized for the trunk, a short in the branch will melt that wire...)

ex-Gooserider
T-5, ASIA-B
Jazzy 1100
Jazzy Select 6
Quickie Q-7
Invacare Mariner
Want to make / get a better chair, ideally one that stands.
User avatar
ex-Gooserider
 
Posts: 5962
Joined: 15 Feb 2011, 06:17
Location: Billerica, MA. USA

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 20 Aug 2018, 23:38

ok thanks - up till now - i had no issues - this was one of those things that was an human error -

once its connected correctly and left alone - would be fine - since this happened - i may consider adding one for her when time permits - winter time - make a new cable on the battery end with a fuse - cable used there was 8 AWG - with SB50 ends -

if i have to remake the cables - i may use 10 AWG with the xt90 end or just make it the same way 8 with SB50 and a fuse on that line -

i always though since the chair is fused - and the lead in the chair is fused - if anything went haywire when all connected - it would blow those fuses

but still the ADD On pack wont be protected -- now its making me rethink it for myself also - maybe i will add a breaker on this 60ah ADD ON also in the winter time - since i will be replacing the weak Cell also -

have to search for a fuse holder maybe to make it easier to change if it blows - or just a breaker -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 20 Aug 2018, 23:40

Having the Fuse on the ADD ON would have protected the ADD ON in this kind of event ? what size fuse would be good to use in this setup - maybe in the winter - can take it apart - make a new wire with fuse on the ADD ON line for her if it makes her feel safer -


I remember you had 30A and it blew. I would expect that to happen. A chair can pull a lot of amps. The lithium takes a large chunk of that intermittently hence high C rate cells being better. I would like to see a fuse that goes pop just before the cables to the addon fail or melt. So a 50 to 60A fuse minimum. And 6mm squared cables. The worse the lead batteries are (impedance, age, etc) the higher the peak pulse Amps on the Addon.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 21 Aug 2018, 00:00

ok i will search what i have laying around here first - i may have some 40A which are too low - and may have some 100A - mini fuse kind -

if i dont have any - i may search for a small breaker - i noticed on all my chairs from factory - came with a 70A breaker - at least two of my chairs did

to be safe - 100A is Ok ? 8AWG wire is about that size in your square thing - maybe a bit smaller not by much - 10AWG wire i use mostly on the ADD ON with the XT 90 is a bit thinner -

Look at your PL 8 - the cable from there is 10 AWG - not the charge cable thats thinner - but the Power cable in the rear -

i use that on my ADD ON with the full pack - also with this 60ah pack - - only my very first pack had 8 awg with Sb50 - - i can try using 8 again if i can solder it to the XT90 -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby steves1977uk » 21 Aug 2018, 00:13

expresso wrote:Look at your PL 8 - the cable from there is 10 AWG - not the charge cable thats thinner - but the Power cable in the rear -


That's because at under 20v the PL8 has to draw more current, at 30v you could get away with 12AWG on the power in on it.

Steve
User avatar
steves1977uk
 
Posts: 4318
Joined: 20 Oct 2011, 21:47
Location: Wells next the Sea, Norfolk, UK

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 21 Aug 2018, 00:26

i wanted to give BM an idea of the size cable i use - which is the same cable on the PL 8 in the rear - thats 10 awg - since you guys use a different way

8 awg would be the next step higher which is thicker cable
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 21 Aug 2018, 01:30

Still ok with 50A fuse. Because in the event of some error or short it will fail faster than the cable! And will flow pulses of 100A if needed and not fail.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 21 Aug 2018, 01:35

Burgerman wrote:Still ok with 50A fuse. Because in the event of some error or short it will fail faster than the cable! And will flow pulses of 100A if needed and not fail.



Ok i found this - but i can use a smaller fuse instead then - 30A wasnt enough - i blew that - so has to be higher - maybe 70A or 80A since they use those on the factory chairs mostly that i had

https://www.waytekwire.com/item/46039/E ... -AMG-Fuse/


or this - but fuse is smaller i think size wise

https://www.monsterscooterparts.com/mob ... hairs.html
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 21 Aug 2018, 04:04

Fit a 50A fuse, it wont blow, and is small, reliable and cheap! 70A breaker is too much, for the cables.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 21 Aug 2018, 04:15

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NBAMH6H/?c ... _lig_dp_it


this one is 60A - maybe i try this one - do you know of a smaller unit ? more compact etc, -

found a 50A version -

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01MZ68KY9/ ... _lig_dp_it
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 21 Aug 2018, 04:36

User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 21 Aug 2018, 04:53

Ok thanks. So which should I use. 50a. Or 60a. Fuse. I had a 30a before that blew.
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 21 Aug 2018, 10:09

Still ok with 50A fuse. Because in the event of some error or short it will fail faster than the cable! And will flow pulses of 100A if needed and not fail.


Fit a 50A fuse, it wont blow, and is small, reliable and cheap! 70A breaker is too much, for the cables.


Its enough. If you really want to fit 60 then do it. Anything is better than no fuse because you want something to fail before you have real problems if somene makes a mistake or something shorts out.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby shirley_hkg » 21 Aug 2018, 11:30

Burgerman wrote:What do I think? I think they are idiots. goodpost

The one who didn't disconnect the add-on isn't smart too.

I never assume one will know my chair's wiring , after a mod .
goodpost
shirley_hkg
 
Posts: 3918
Joined: 31 Dec 2010, 13:42

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 21 Aug 2018, 12:38

The one who didn't disconnect the add-on isn't smart too.


I think they did. It was the part of the cable that connects to the batteries that they reconnected to ONE battery! And when plugged in later some fireworks... ???

They may call these people techs. But they seem far from it. Basic school kid level stuff, the simple circuits they teach at 12 years old, is too much for them. :fencing

Basically a spanner with a hammer.

HOW do you expect such people that dont understand absolute basics to troubleshoot an actual real problem?
Thats not to say that a good tech doesent exist. Theres a couple on here. But dont hold your breath!
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 21 Aug 2018, 15:44

thats correct - the ADD ON was never on the chair when they took it for repairs - just the ADD ON Cable on the lead - was suppose to be put back correctly on the new batteries - also it was suppose to be checked first by me with the volt meter before reconnecting the cable to the ADD ON - for some reason it wasnt -

i went to check and thats what i found - its ok - lesson learned and hopefully it wont happen again - will be fixed tomorrow and reconnected - hopefully nothing was damaged - it was a split sec. i was told and disconnected instantly - so maybe all is good - but given what happened - i will fit a fuse for her on that pack this winter and might as well do the same to mines -

i never had an issue since i started with any of my packs - i am no expert thats for sure - but one full pack and 3 ADD ONs later - and all worked fine -

always learning something - even in my sleep :lol:

thanks
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby flagman1776 » 22 Aug 2018, 03:00

I have to admit that I wouldn't have thought about a "tech" not putting things back as they were. We'd just expect it. We'll all be on guard for now that you've shown us the risk.
no longer able to use my TravelScoots
flagman1776
 
Posts: 2309
Joined: 16 Nov 2012, 16:28
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 22 Aug 2018, 04:24

flagman1776 wrote:I have to admit that I wouldn't have thought about a "tech" not putting things back as they were. We'd just expect it. We'll all be on guard for now that you've shown us the risk.



i Had my tech here today for my motors - i asked for this person ONLY - i met him before and he was good - great guy - listens - understands and knows what hes doing - and if he dosnt know something - he will figure it out - learn it etc, - bottom line - hes my tech - thats the only one i will have work on my chairs -

i was not able to get the motors installed - i needed new hubs - since trying to take off the old hubs - wasnt happening - so will get new hubs and then installed in a few hours at most - turns out - battery pack does not have to be removed - front cover comes off and PM exposed - very easy -

what happened with my friends cable being connected on ONE battery instead of both to get 24V - it only had 12.9V - it was suppose to be checked before anything was connected back - for what ever reason - she believed it was put back correctly - and went to connect it before having me check it -

i am sure she wont do that again - and because of that - i have ordered a few fuses 50A and 60A models - with fuse holders - i will install a 50A on her pack - and i will now install the 60A version on my packs - i have two add ons i am using - i will just do both - i never had an issue with no fuses on them - but it cant hurt after what happened - cant be a bad thing to add one

these seem to be strong - can handle up to 1000A before it blows - if i understand the specs correctly - i may be wrong -

https://www.waytekwire.com/item/46312/L ... 80921GXM5/


https://www.waytekwire.com/item/45966/L ... Bolt-Down/
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 22 Aug 2018, 10:23

That will work.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 27 Aug 2018, 03:56

Finally i got an replacement Cell for the weak Cell 3 in my pack :clap:

i had to fight the seller - thanks to Paypal it worked out - i charged and discharged it down to 2.9V got about 56ah - Seller says it will have 60ah if discharged down to 2.5V cutoff - and it may have - seems solid

now will replace in the winter time - and add the fuse - - if it turns out as good as the other 7 in the pack - -i can easily see a good 40 miles out of it - with one diode in place

i will be adding two diodes to my friends pack with a fuse - so she can get the most out of the pack and the Gels -

i can connect two together bolted to each other and then connect on the line - both in the same direction ?

or do i have to separate them for some reason ?
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 27 Aug 2018, 04:01

No bolt together, will be fine. Just .5 drop, instead of .25 volts.

How does she charge it?

Shecan charge the lead as she always has. Because the power she adds will not go past the diodes. They are one way valves. So charging via the XLR will not charge the lithium. So thats safe for her.

But how does she charge them?
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 27 Aug 2018, 04:38

i set her up with a PL 8 and PSU - using the combined preset i use - its my first pack that i made 36ah headways - and they are solid - work great -

she charges them with the PL 8 as one large pack - connected to the lead all the time - same way i do mines - in the winter though - i will add the diodes and the fuse - and the pack with be used with her new chair - 646se shes getting - with Gel - if MK not sure - will make a new add on Cable and connect the pack -

i managed to get one person using the PL 8 and lithium :clap: - i may have another person who may be interested in doing an ADD ON down the line -

i think using 60ah Cells that i am using is the best deal now - i would try to find Cells that are thinner - around 30mm thick - they would be a perfect fit in my shoe box i use - if thats what they wanted -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 27 Aug 2018, 04:41

Burgerman wrote:No bolt together, will be fine. Just .5 drop, instead of .25 volts.

How does she charge it?

Shecan charge the lead as she always has. Because the power she adds will not go past the diodes. They are one way valves. So charging via the XLR will not charge the lithium. So thats safe for her.

But how does she charge them?



Wait - your saying i can charge my chair from the XLR if i wanted with the ADD ON pack connected and it wont be affected or charged at all because of the diode i added ?

didnt know that - not sure why someone would want to charge that way if you have the ADD ON connected - but good to know anyway

i will add two diodes to hers to give her more range - i have one on mines and my just leave it at that -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 27 Aug 2018, 09:59

Correct. Power only goes one way through a diode.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 27 Aug 2018, 15:50

Can i connect two diodes in line together - both diodes connected to each other and then wire on each end - or do they need to be apart from each other on the same line or one on each line facing opposite directions ?

i planned to use two inline - both diodes attached to eachother in one direction -
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 27 Aug 2018, 17:28

No bolt together, will be fine. Just .5 drop, instead of .25 volts.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby expresso » 27 Aug 2018, 18:42

are you saying NOT to use two diodes in line bolted together ?

just use one ?
Quickie 636 - 230ah LifePo4
expresso
 
Posts: 11916
Joined: 10 May 2010, 03:17

Re: 60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

Postby Burgerman » 27 Aug 2018, 18:44

No I am not! BOLT THEM TOGETHER...

Its electricity, it doesent much care. As long as it goes the right route.
User avatar
Burgerman
Site Admin
 
Posts: 65050
Joined: 27 May 2008, 21:24
Location: United Kingdom

PreviousNext

Return to Everything Powerchair

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Gregg and 105 guests

 

  eXTReMe Tracker