176Ah LiFePO4 cells

[Burgerman]

[foghornleghorn]

Something with a decent capacity that would fit just being 8 cells is what I've been searching for.

Would have enough room around these for insulation and spare space for a lump of COG ballast too

[hobie1dog]

:dance Something with a decent capacity that would fit just being 8 cells is what I've been searching for.
D

Yep, me too.

[Scooterman]

Looks to me like the 176Ah cells may fit the salsas grp24 battery space.
http://www.lifepo4-batteries.com/sale-1 ... f-car.html

Since the thing is supposed to do an ISO 30 miles, and the 5 hour rate means that it will only actually use around 40Ah of its gel battery then this means a 4 fold range increase, with about 16Ah remaining as a safeguard. So 120 ISO miles... Probably 70 miles in reality. But thats SEVENTY real miles!!! Range anxiety be gone!

And is so I am going to order 8.
The guy emailed back with a price.

For 3.2V176AH Lifepo4 Battery Cell, USD109/pcs (FOB)
6000cycles-5years warranty-lifespan15years-CE/IEC61960 Certificated.

Still waiting on shipping charge. As the best I got was:

if shipping by sea, it costs about USD500 for 1 cubic meter container which holds about 400-500PCS.

But I want 8.. Not 500. And they will sell 1, 4, or 8 no problem. But what about shipping.

Hi, I was just wondering if you went ahead and ordered these? They will fit in the salsa, I measured the bat comp max dims to be 267wx351Lx231h(to underside of plastic cover).

The reason I ask is that I'm interested in something like these for my scooter. The 240ah ones will fit in the scooter if stacked on their side 2x4 12v blocks (with mod to plastic bodywork). It's says in the spec 'any orientation'. But the 176ah would be a better option as no bodywork mods needed

[Burgerman]

Not yet. Stuck on bed, lack of $...

So I would like to know if they fit too. Remember that they need insulation.

[CPguy]

Insulation over the terminals or where please?

[Burgerman]

There are many threads.

The CASE of the cell is connected to the negative on all of the metal case prismatic cells. So you need a 1mm plastic sheet, or similar between the bottom and the sides. And between each cell. So the casings cant touch each other or the chair. Or

[CPguy]

Interesting info! Thx!

[Scooterman]

Not yet. Stuck on bed, lack of $...

So I would like to know if they fit too. Remember that they need insulation.

I'm sorry you're still stuck on the bed, I mean that genuinely. I thought you'd healed and was up and about again

The CASE of the cell is connected to the negative on all of the metal case prismatic cells. So you need a 1mm plastic sheet, or similar between the bottom and the sides. And between each cell. So the casings cant touch each other or the chair. Or

That was funny, I didn't know that about metal case prismatic cells.

Do prismatic cells need to have an air gap between adjacent cells to prevent heat build up?

[Burgerman]

Depends. Not for wheelchair use.

[expresso]

too bad i wasnt doing a full chair today - i would use those 176ah cells for sure - they fit - they give you the most for your money and only 8 Cells to deal with - but another thing would be - what if 1 Cell is bad or you need to replace later on - would they still carry them - if all goes well - you wont need to replace them at all -

thats the only thing with using 8 Cells large Ah - with headways - yeah its a pain to use so many and get half the Ah - but if one went bad - you can replace one - wont cost alot either considering -

i would still use these 176ah Cells i had to do it today - my 646 105ah inside and 45ah outside - this would give me more than both combined and all inside the chair with 8 Cells -

[Burgerman]

too bad i wasnt doing a full chair today

You can say that again in a few years time. But you have to go with what is available at the time. And with lithium things keep on moving forwards. Been watching this since the 90s with hobby batteries. They get more and more powerful per weight and cost as time goes on. Higher C rates and larger capacities in the same sized case. Its a slow evolution rather than big steps. But this is also a case of the right sizes appearing too to make best use of the space available.

[expresso]

yes - 3 years ago - headways were really the best and only option for space and C rate etc, - besides they do look Cool - it does make it intimidated to start when you see them etc, - using 8 Cells just looks so much easier and it is - and more likely for more users to consider doing it -

my 80ah were shipped - excited to receive them - and start to charge discharge etc, - leaving it for last pack i do - want to fix the 60ah i have - replace the weak cell - add fuse this time around - and do quickies pack with fuse and 2 diodes also - before starting the new pack - i wonder what will happen to headways

[Scooterman]

using 8 Cells just looks so much easier and it is - and more likely for more users to consider doing it -

Yes, not so intimidating and MUCH less work.

but another thing would be - what if 1 Cell is bad or you need to replace later on - would they still carry them - if all goes well - you wont need to replace them at all -

I take it from this that you can't replace a dud cell with a different brand of cell?

[expresso]

i think a different brand wont matter much - but size shape - Ah etc, ideally the same Cell in size shape etc, - not sure what BM may say - or do if that ever happened - i think the odds are low - if they are all good when you get them - they should be fine - i did have one bad Cell with my headways - it showed up after the first summer of use - next summer came and i noticed on the graphs - which is why the PL8 is needed - i would have not know unless i was able to see it - it was so minor on the graphs but turned out to be a bad Cell - which good thing i had a few spares -

not sure if its worth getting a spare for the 176ah Cells - you want to hope they are all good and never need one - if you get 9 Cells instead of 8 in case of a bad cell - then you will be stuck with it most likely if its not needed - its a gamble - who knows - or have to get 8 Cells and if one is bad - get a new replacement from them -

i had one bad 60ah Cell - and got another one from the seller at there cost. i have yet to replace the weak one with the new one - my hope is that will be it and then have a better pack - can get more out of it before its done - but we see -

[Scooterman]

What about this https://www.lifepo4-batteries.com/sale-10519270-chinese-manufacturing-ups-power-backup-source-rv-electric-forklift-24v-lifepo4-batteries-pack.htmlAny configuration you choose... Cheaper than buying individual cells perhaps?

PS: Cold on the scooter this afternoon , had to buy me mum some flowers for her birthday. Winters on it's way

[Burgerman]

dimensions?

[Scooterman]

dimensions?

8 times bigger than 1 cell. Hope that helps

[Scooterman]

Sorry that was a bit flippant especially after all the help you've given me

I'm new to lithium and I stumbled across them earlier via one of your links I think? I didn't know they sold cells this way, I guess they can make up any battery pack the customer asks for (standard cells)?

It seems quite a good plug and play option. Open the box and whack it in the chair?

[Burgerman]

They are just selling connectors plus cells. And no insulation...

[Scooterman]

They are just selling connectors plus cells. And no insulation...

Oh, I didn't realise that.

With 8 series prismatic cells do you still need a windows machine? You could charge/balance them using just the PL8? When yourself and others charge lithium, you don't plug the PL8 into your laptop everytime do you?

The reason I ask is I've been doing some investigating because not being able to get bootcamp assistant to load windows. The HDD has got enough room but not a single large enough sector and needs to be defragged, but there's no tool for OS X 10.14, and I not reloading the operating system, I'm not savvy enough for that. Sorry about the poor grammar, it's early!

[steves1977uk]

This is why you need Windows as a main OS since our chair programming and PL8 charger software only runs on it. Other OS's are good for e-mailing/web browsing/etc...

Steve

[Burgerman]

The reason I ask is I've been doing some investigating because not being able to get bootcamp assistant to load windows. The HDD has got enough room but not a single large enough sector and needs to be defragged, but there's no tool for OS X 10.14, and I not reloading the operating system, I'm not savvy enough for that. Sorry about the poor grammar, it's early!

No defrag tool? So it gets slower and slower... Bootcamp? But if it can partition drives it should be able to move all the files too. Or its completely useless!
You dont need that anyway. I suppose its all dumbed down like the apple software. Went on google images to get a pic of a pilot plus the other day with my sis in laws apple. No way to save an image!!! What an idiotic setup. Right click is hopeless too! Everything needed is hidden... And Safari is just crap in so many ways.

Just stick a windows boot USB drive or disk in and let it delete your old partitions, and file system. And install windows Win 10 64 bit with FAT32 hidden boot, and NTFS windows partition. If you use a modern UEFI computer.

Like everything in life, knowledge is power. ESPECIALLY with computers.

As it happens I ALWAYS use my laptop to charge. Because the graphs and information are extremely valuable. Although ONCE CONFIGURED and CHECKED for a few cycles in windows, you can just charge with the charger if you want. But you need the laptop occasionally to check, and to configure and load a suitable preset etc.

[shirley_hkg]

With 8 series prismatic cells do you still need a windows machine? You could charge/balance them using just the PL8? When yourself and others charge lithium, you don't plug the PL8 into your laptop everytime do you?
!

Once configured , you don't need PC anymore.

However , you will miss the fun part -graph- , and can't read over 99Ah returned.

[Dan]

Or you can save yourself the hassle and buy a used windows laptop from somewhere like gumtree for less than £50.

[Scooterman]

Thank you for all the replies, much appreciated.

I phoned Apple support this morning. He set up screen sharing, tried a few things that didn't work, then told me I need to contact microsoft. I don't think I will, they must get squillions of emails everyday, that's if I even find their email address.

Or you can save yourself the hassle and buy a used windows laptop from somewhere like gumtree for less than £50.

Funnily enough that's what I'm thinking. But a used desktop rather than laptop.

I will investigate what BM says about wiping and loading windows onto my macbook. But then I thought if I get a desktop I can leave it on the desk in the lounge and park the scooter or powechair next to it. I would use the machine as a dedicated mobility computer. I do need windows, when I did the scooter my dad had to lug his windows desktop round.

That way I'll still have my macbook free for watching youtube cat videos in the bedroom

They are just selling connectors plus cells. And no insulation...

Insulation -Do you recommend in encasing the whole pack in something like 2mm polycarbonate sheet?

[Scooterman]

Once configured , you don't need PC anymore.

However , you will miss the fun part -graph- , and can't read over 99Ah returned.

Yes that's pretty cool. If you say go out for a long ride and track distance covered with a gps phone app, you could work out Miles per Amps for the trip?

EDIT: Does the Pl8 measure amps returned, or is that measured by the windows software?

[Fedor]

About PL8, charging and Mac. I also use Mac for work and programming, it works quickly and efficiently, but I will not ignite holywar about it. I also use Windows 7 and 10, they are good but have nuances in some usecases.

Basically, you do not need to install the Bootcamp to charge and monitor batteries; you can use virtualization systems such as free VirtualPC or a paid equivalent from Parallels.

But, I think the best option is to use a cheap small laptop (maybe used) with Windows and be able to always see what is happening with your battery. Charging software will not distract from your work or personal affairs and all that.

[Scooterman]

But, I think the best option is to use a cheap small laptop (maybe used) with Windows and be able to always see what is happening with your battery.

I think a dedicated windows computer is the best option too. I'll see how much budget ones are new, if you don't get a lot for your money I'll see what's available 'used' on eBay.

[hobie1dog]

Anyone try these yet, using only 8 cells?

What would the wiring and balancing cables look like...diagram?