Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

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Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby Cripp7 » 10 Oct 2018, 23:22

As the subject says, I'm into position to get a new chair now after having my Permobil M300 for 5 years now I'm really not liking this PerMobil so I'm either going with the new Invacare TDX SP2 (which my previous chair was the SP, not the SP2 and with only till) the chair I had before that was a Quickie P200, which I really love that chair I used it for 10 years on the same set of batteries, and it was a dream but just like getting older, everything is not a dream anymore! But I was looking at the new Quickie QM710, even though both have both pros and cons, I was just wondering if anyone else had their experiences with either.
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby Cripp7 » 10 Oct 2018, 23:35

Something else I could not figure out is was the difference between a Quickie QM7 and the new Quickie Q 700 M? I looked on the comparisons and they both seem the same to me.
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby Burgerman » 10 Oct 2018, 23:46

Seating and Options? And US and UK naming. But the mid drive one wasn't the interesting one. Most full time users that venture outdoors prefer rear drive. The rear drive is not available in the US. Maybe it will be.
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby Cripp7 » 11 Oct 2018, 18:44

Which one is not available in the US?
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby Burgerman » 12 Oct 2018, 00:22

Rear drive, the one that replaces the Salsa, or the Jive chairs in the UK. Although all three are still available right now. Mid drive is for shopping centres or indoors mostly, and front drive is weird and doesn't drive right because it is a directionaly unstable platform with a load of chair swinging around behind you. So most people that do any amount of outdoor stuff prefer rear drive chairs.

I.e: https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... sedeo-ergo
This is the rear drive version of the chair you are looking at.
It replaces the soon to be discontinued Salsa.

Heres my own lightly modified salsa: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7455&start=600#p122818
Scroll down the page... Many pictures.

I mentioned it because you said you loved your quickie rear drive.

For reasons unknown, the US market always seems to ignore the rear drive versions of every chair. Invacare skip all their rear drive chairs too. They have bigger casters, and work better outdoors, and shorter overall than mid/front drive chairs. And dont get high centered, have better traction as no sprung system lifting weight off the drive wheels, less getting caught up in wires and hose pipes on tiny rear casters, and no little wheels behind you taking out peoples feet in a busy bar etc. Either. Better in vans to drive from, easier to manoever as they are shorter.

A few more Rear Drive from Sunrise Medical alone:
https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... sedeo-ergo
Also the smaller https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... -sedeo-pro
And https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... rs/jive-r2
And puma bigger https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... rs/puma-40
And puma smaller https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... rs/puma-20
And https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... s/salsa-r2
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby Cripp7 » 15 Oct 2018, 22:32

Yes, I should have been more thorough in my original posting I do need the power tilts/recline with swing away leg rests. The current chair I have right now is the Permobil M300 with the Corpus CG powered seating, which they never could get my backrest configured correctly, it was difficult for me to work the joystick controls (i.e. could not hit the power button, or other buttons on the front of the stick even though I had a external button that I put in my lap that I could tap for the mode so I could set the chair up and back when I needed to) also it had the footplate, which a lot of chairs now days at least mid will drive are going to the center footplate style. Because I always had swing away leg rest, my leg sat better spread apart as opposed to together. Plus my feet would not stay on the footplate so I did have to use the strap to hold them on there.

Now I finally did go ahead and tell my DME to go with the Quickie QM7, even as much as I loved my P200 I found that the P-222-SE has a power tilt/recline option on those. Which at that price that those are going for I think I can sell a couple of mine and get one of those. I don't run around outdoors is much anymore, that's why I have a mid-wheel drive. Now when I go travel I'll probably use the P222. My P200 I ran for 10 years and had to replace one motor and get this, it still has the same batteries! MK are the best! Now I've heard a lotthat I did not use it very much, or go very long distances, etc. but believe me I did. And the same thing with my TDX, MK batteries 10 years. However that one I did not ride real hard and and for the past 5 years it's been sitting behind my couch as my backup. And by roommate turned it on the other day and it was still fully charged. Anyone looking to buy an Invacare TDX SP w/tilt (no recline) 18"x 20" backrest is a Matrx DP 18" with swing away leg rests. I'll try to get some pictures.
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby Burgerman » 15 Oct 2018, 23:14

My P200 I ran for 10 years and had to replace one motor and get this, it still has the same batteries! MK are the best! Now I've heard a lot that I did not use it very much, or go very long distances, etc. but believe me I did. And the same thing with my TDX, MK batteries 10 years. However that one I did not ride real hard and and for the past 5 years it's been sitting behind my couch as my backup. And by roommate turned it on the other day and it was still fully charged.


Heres how it works.
MK are about the best for long term float service life. (most high quality batteries kept fully topped up will have a stand by service life or 10 to 12 years) MK are among the best here. But this means that they must be regularly topped up to 100% and if this is true, then they will have 80% of the original capacity remaining after 10 years. This is called stand by or float life. If they are NOT kept topped up, regularly, they will have much less than 80% of capacity remaining. Regardless they will still say "full" if charged on a powerchair, even if most of the capacity or range has vanished...

You get only a couple of hundred really deep discharge cycles. So best not to do that. Heavy users get less than 1 years use from a set of MK batteries.
MK gel offer 500 cycles if discharged by 80 percent, and correctly charged. So if you really cover long distances, then you will get 18 months before they go in the bin. And are good deep cycle batteries too. This is as good as lead batteries get.
You get several THOUSANDS of shallow discharge cycles of 30 to 40% used. So if you dont go too far, and regularly charge FULL, they can last a very long time.

However just because your chair that is stored says full, certainly does not mean it is. It may read full even if its basically a ruined battery with only half its original capacity remaining, and if its 85% charged. So dont rely on that chair gauge to tell you anything useful. Only measuring capacity can tell you if its any good. And only a full charge cycle, can tell you it is actually fully charged. And you should do that in storage approx once every 2 weeks or every month at bare minimum. Or the battery will sulfate internally and die faster.
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby SweetBearCub » 17 Oct 2018, 19:22

In case you haven't made your mind up...

The Invacare TDX SP (not SP2) was my very first power wheelchair... and it was a complete piece of crap. In the 4 and a half years that I owned it, it needed 3 sets (so 3x2=6) of motor/gearboxes replaced, two gearboxes actually split open and leaked gear oil all over my home, countless front caster bearing replacements, once, a front caster actually froze and made the chair nearly undriveable. Taking it to service, I destroyed the tire on that caster. Motor plugs came undone from the controller as I drove down a sidewalk outdoors, resulting in an immediate halt and a flashing service light, I had a brake failure where one of the brakes stopped responding entirely (another halt with a flashing service indicator, although that just happened one morning when I woke up and got into the chair), and to top it off, the chair quickly developed lots of squeaks and rattles. Oh, and the "TDX SP" branding on one of the "suspension" arms startted peeling off, which just looked bad.

Now, I was not a heavy user. I lived in a city, took public transit, only had a small apartment, etc. Not like Burgerman.

As limited as the JunkyWheelchair site was, Mark's articles and insight taught me that I did have a choice in the make and model of my 2nd and later chairs, and how to make more of an informed choice.

The Quickie S-636 (I think it's the F55 in the UK?) that replaced it has served me well for nearly 6 years with so much less worry. I love it, but improvements can always be made.

I have my eye on a new Bounder 300M with the 11.6 MPH package in maybe a year, when I can afford the large out of pocket upcharge for the high speed package, lighting, etc.
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby Burgerman » 17 Oct 2018, 19:28

Unless you like much less range, less control, and less torque, high battery drain, and more frequent battery replacement then I would go easy on the 11mph option. Stick to 8 at the highest. Faster isn't always better. I warned expresso about this exact thing, but he tried it anyway. Now plans to change gearing to a lower speed. A big step too far.
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby expresso » 17 Oct 2018, 21:01

yes its true - the fast speed is great only on flat group open road etc, - if you get a 300M - it will be 6mph - stick to that and see how you like it first - but dont go for the top speed - theres a 7.5 gear set also but will depend on which motors are installed i believe - i could be wrong -

with my setup - motor package i got - seems to limit me to 9 mph gear set as there lowest option - when i get to that point - i will find out myself again to be sure what speed options i have to choose from - i would be ok with 9 mph - since i know how it feels already - even 10 feels fine for me on my other chairs - BUT the bounder being heavier chair - is a different feeling to my other chairs - i do seat better in the bounder - having them offset it back an inch. on its short frame - does feels better.

forget the speed and stick with the bottomend - worse case demo a chair at the speed your interested in first before deciding.
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby Cripp7 » 24 Oct 2018, 21:41

@Sweetbearcub

It sounds like you just got a bad chair on that one! :cussing I was lucky and only had to replace one motor/gearbox on mine. It was actually the gearbox messed up, but on those in the cares you can't just buy the motor by itself, even though you could it really what it match up to the gearbox like it should. Luckily my insurance was paid up when it happened and also under warranty I got it for free!

@Espresso

I saw in your tagline that you have a Quickie p-222-se and a Quickie p210, what are your experiences with the both chairs? Was the 210 the same thing as the 200? Because I used to use a 200 for years and loved it, but it came a time when I had to get tilt and the P200 could not do that. That's why all was looking at the P222 Because I can get tilted recline on it.
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby expresso » 24 Oct 2018, 22:31

Cripp7 wrote:@Espresso

I saw in your tagline that you have a Quickie p-222-se and a Quickie p210, what are your experiences with the both chairs? Was the 210 the same thing as the 200? Because I used to use a 200 for years and loved it, but it came a time when I had to get tilt and the P200 could not do that. That's why all was looking at the P222 Because I can get tilted recline on it.



i have a P220 - with tilt - was my very first chair about 15 years ago - - i loved it so much that i went for the P222se on my next chair with tilt also - i wanted the speed which is now my slowest chair - its fine for me - i like the P222se for many reasons - and its limited also for a few reasons - i still have the P220 chair and same motors everything - other than batteries and tires - never needed it repaired - But i also didnt ride much at the start - i needed time to adjust to my new settings etc, - i moved from the Bronx to the NYC - took a while to settle down - i have lend it out to a friend who needed a chair now - and using the P222se as my indoor chair

what i can say is this - its been a solid chair - never let me down - pilot plus 100A controller - 8.5 motors - tilt - great chair for wheelies - compact narrow - - its a light chair and very tippsy - you can adjust that by changing the seating position - it can be longer and more stable or even shorter and less stable -

in stock form - its limited on hills - depending how steep - i been stuck on my anti tippers once on a hill all the way back - facing the sky - i couldnt move - a bike came along and helped my front end down - - so i know i cant do many hills - if you can deal with that - then it should be fine - theres also a chance of squeaking frame on this chair because the top seating locks into the bottom and depending when its made - it can cause some squeak which i finally resolved but it came back - unlike my P220 - never had a squeak and still dosnt -

you can fit a good 160ah to 180ah in this chair which would be great because you would get great range - power is fine - i am 165Lbs and its fine on hills ramps - etc,

you can also look at the 636 or 646 - depends what you need - the 222se has tilt only - my other chairs both have tilt and seat lift which helps alot the seat lift for transferring - i can use tilt but much easier with lift - - its 6 years with the 222se and i started to ride more once i got this chair and realized the battery issues - range etc, - so i went to lithium 3 years ago - i had this chair 6 years and looks brand new - runs just the same - i did change the motors once - its a year ago - but i dont use this chair as much now - its a back up chair

what ever you want to know - ask me
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby sacharlie » 25 Oct 2018, 00:01

Burgerman wrote: Most full time users that venture outdoors prefer rear drive.


:argument
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Re: Quickie QM710 vs Invacare TDX SP2

Postby Burgerman » 25 Oct 2018, 01:37

Well lets put it this way. I would challenge you to follow me on one of my usual routes with almost any chair of a similar size thats mid drive. While its true that an X5 or V6 magic mobility mid drive chair possibly could, its also wider and about 10 inches longer and a liability indoors and too big in my van.

Front drive chairs may be able to unless its slippery. At which point you would have no choice but to drive like my gran, or swap ends or hit something while attempting to change direction accurately at speed. And all the normal mid drive things with tiny casters, and mid centering drive wheels dont stand any chance. And they rattle your fillings out at the same time.

Been there, got the T shirt.

:argument
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