Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby Burgerman » 11 Mar 2019, 03:24

And this is what MK say happens if thats ignored...
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby jefferso » 11 Mar 2019, 03:42

Thanks. Sounds like trying out the diodes will be worthwhile. I don't mind not being able to fully charge while traveling. My trips are usually short, mostly day trips, or max 2 or 3 days, and sometimes I end up with only 4 to 6 hours charging time overnight, so the 12A will be helpful while out if I can find a plug while having a meal, or on a train. I'll be satisfied to get to 80 or 90% overnight, topups during the day, and then do 100% charges with the PL8 when I get back home.
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby Burgerman » 11 Mar 2019, 10:37

Then the lithium algo should work.
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby jefferso » 17 Mar 2019, 16:29

I thought I'd post a few photos of the Victron IP22 Charger 12 amp 24 volt charger with Bluetooth to compare to the Ring Automotive 8 amp 24 volt charger. It's smaller than the Ring and weighs a bit less. The Ring is 1.8kg (4 lbs) and the Victron is 1.3kg (3 lbs).
I'll include some photos of the screw down terminals, and the little flap that covers them.
It doesn't come with a cable, so you have to make your own.
If only they had a 28.2v setting it would be great.

IMG_5610w.jpg

IMG_5578w.jpg

IMG_4711w+.jpg
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby jefferso » 09 Jun 2019, 17:31

flagman1776 wrote:If you want to fast charge your chair with your PL8, why not install an Anderson SB 50 socket direct wired to your batteries. I'm assuming you are using lead acid batteries. I'm sure BM could set you up with a charging profile. it's just a power plug, when the charger is unplugged so no one needs to know if you are concerned about service technicians. You'd need a pigtail for the PL8 with the same SB 50.


I finally got an SB 50 connector wired directly to the batteries of my Permobil C500s. I found out that if I turn off the main switch for the chair, the PL8 won't charge because it doesn't see the battery. I guess that means that switch must break the connection between the two batteries. I was thinking I could flip that switch before charging to ensure nothing is drawing current while charging. Not with this current setup. If I did the wiring to each battery with the dual SB50s (for 12v or 24v charging) then I guess that wouldn't be the case, but I don't know when I'll have someone to help with such projects again.

One thing I've found is that some assistants have difficulty with plugging and unplugging the SB50, especially if I'm parked next to something and they don't have much room to pull. Having to do 4 plug/unplug operations to start and stop charging might become a barrier if I change the wiring to 2 SB50s. I can plug and unplug an xlr under the joystick, but there's no way I could plug or unplug the SB50 myself with my very limited strength.

I got one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-ANDERSON- ... 2820063047 Anderson plug handle for SB-50, for the charger cable end, and it seems to help make it easier.

I've still been using the 12A MK Gel charging profile. I figured I'd just use it at 12A for a while to make sure I didn't have any issues (none so far). I'm using this one:

(26 May 2018, Re: To Buy a PL8 - Accessories, attachment: "Lead MK GEL 12A Max With XLR plg.PS8.zip")
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7925&start=30#p119575

I assume the stock wiring between the two batteries can handle 40A+ since it has to handle the current of driving. I thought I might gradually step up to 15, 20, 30 then 40 amps over several days. Is it good to use the MK GEL 12A preset and just change the amps, or should I use a different profile?
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby Burgerman » 09 Jun 2019, 17:46

I finally got an SB 50 connector wired directly to the batteries of my Permobil C500s. I found out that if I turn off the main switch for the chair, the PL8 won't charge because it doesn't see the battery. I guess that means that switch must break the connection between the two batteries. I was thinking I could flip that switch before charging to ensure nothing is drawing current while charging. Not with this current setup. If I did the wiring to each battery with the dual SB50s (for 12v or 24v charging) then I guess that wouldn't be the case, but I don't know when I'll have someone to help with such projects again.


The breaker is between the batteries. But leave it on. The chair, when turned off takes only about 6 or 8mA. So not an issue.

One thing I've found is that some assistants have difficulty with plugging and unplugging the SB50, especially if I'm parked next to something and they don't have much room to pull. Having to do 4 plug/unplug operations to start and stop charging might become a barrier if I change the wiring to 2 SB50s. I can plug and unplug an xlr under the joystick, but there's no way I could plug or unplug the SB50 myself with my very limited strength.

I got one of these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-ANDERSON- ... 2820063047 Anderson plug handle for SB-50, for the charger cable end, and it seems to help make it easier.

I've still been using the 12A MK Gel charging profile. I figured I'd just use it at 12A for a while to make sure I didn't have any issues (none so far). I'm using this one:

(26 May 2018, Re: To Buy a PL8 - Accessories, attachment: "Lead MK GEL 12A Max With XLR plg.PS8.zip")
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7925&start=30#p119575

I assume the stock wiring between the two batteries can handle 40A+ since it has to handle the current of driving. I thought I might gradually step up to 15, 20, 30 then 40 amps over several days. Is it good to use the MK GEL 12A preset and just change the amps, or should I use a different profile?


Yes, alter the profile or use a different one, and charge at 24A official, or 40 if you want to put a bit back fast. Perfectly safe.
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby jefferso » 13 Jun 2019, 11:54

Burgerman wrote:Yes, alter the profile or use a different one, and charge at 24A official, or 40 if you want to put a bit back fast. Perfectly safe.


I duplicated the Lead MK GEL 12A Max With XLR plg profile, but the charge rate is limited to 12A and that part doesn't seem to be editable. I can set it lower but not higher.

I looked at some of the other profiles for SLA or Gel, and they allow a higher charge rate, but have other uneditable fields like C/? Termination which cannot be edited.

Am I missing some setting which allows editing seemingly uneditable fields?
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby jefferso » 13 Jun 2019, 11:56

I think I just figured out a way to edit another setting.

I copied "12v SLA or Gel Cell" and then ticked the Advanced Properties box.

Then I could change the Termination to match the Lead MK GEL 12A Max With XLR plg profile. I went through the various tabs and made everything else match, except the charge rate limit is now 40A.
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby Burgerman » 13 Jun 2019, 12:53

There are hidden settings you cannot see. If you get errors, delete the preset and modify one of mine.
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby jefferso » 14 Jun 2019, 16:12

Burgerman wrote:There are hidden settings you cannot see. If you get errors, delete the preset and modify one of mine.


Thanks. Which one of yours would be good to use? The XLR plug one is limited to 12 amps. Is there another Gel profile without a limit on amps that would be better?
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby steves1977uk » 14 Jun 2019, 18:26

Use this one, but only use it with Andersons!!! Remove .zip from file to use.

Steve
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Lead MK Gel 24v NOT FOR XLR PLUGS!
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby jefferso » 15 Jun 2019, 01:58

Thanks, I'll give it a try with the SB50 Anderson connection.
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby jefferso » 22 Jun 2019, 00:58

steves1977uk wrote:Use this one, but only use it with Andersons!!! Remove .zip from file to use.


Thanks again, this one seems to work and I set it to 40A.

In the "Charge" tab, this one has "Trickle/Finish A." set to 60mA and "Trickle Timeout" set to 2 Hours.

The 12A XLR version has "Trickle/Finish A." set to "None"

Is the trickle finish good for MK Gel batteries, or is it kind of redundant since it has termination at 100mA?
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Re: Power Supply for PowerLab8 v2

Postby Burgerman » 22 Jun 2019, 01:31

If you charge slowly (5 or 8A up to 12A limit imposed by XLR connector) then on a deeply discharged battery, even if discharged only say 35Ah, then you get say 3 to 4 hours at CC before the timer starts on the CV stage. So 4+ 8CV is adequate mostly to be sure of a full battery. And will likely reach the very low termination current we set at 800th to 1000thC. At approx 8 hours.

If you charge at 40A, the CC stage may only last 15 to 20 mins, before the batt voltage is pulled up to the CV stage by the high current. Where it starts timing... So total charge time is now 20min plus 8 hours. Which is often enough, but not always. So on my batteries here, that extra trickle did the trick. It wont hurt anyway since the current is so low that any gassing can be completely recombined. It adds a controlled amount in a sensible time.

The idea is that they have around 100% returned, plus a little extra to be sure that the deep pasted material in the lead grids is also fully charged/desulfated. And that takes time. If your battery gets close to its termination point at the timers 8 hour limit, then its not really needed.

Imagine it like this.
A 150A charger will see CV start the moment you connect the battery even if its far from charged.
A 1A charger will gradually increase the voltage for 35 hours to return 35Ah, and when CV is reached its almost fully charged. As it has had enough time for the peukert to dissapate and the deep cell grids pasted material is also fully charged. So then it would only need say 1 to 2 hours at CV to reach that 1000th C point.
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