Ultimate Lithium Add-on for dummy users .

[Burgerman]

The Chinese write anything from 3000mAh to 12500mAh on crap 18650 cells that are around 400 to 500mAh only. And rely on user ignorance.

Heres a 9900 GTF cells. They also measure .5Ah.


youtu.be/hWmy-MWRZZc

[Burgerman]

This is really worth watching.
Tesla batteries.


youtu.be/TdUqQZC2dcE

[Scooterman]

Wonderful if you can afford the purchase price. But as far as the proposed uk gov subsidy goes https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/ca ... range-WLTP.

It's again a case of poor people subsidising rich people through green taxes, just like solar subsidies, and huge wind subsidies going to wealthy farmers and land owners.

Yet meanwhile average joe gets forced off the road cos uk gov keeps on bringing in more & more stringent MOT testing.

Rant Over!

[foghornleghorn]

Get yourself an old car that doesn't need an MOT.

[Burgerman]

Wonderful if you can afford the purchase price. But as far as the proposed uk gov subsidy goes https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/ca ... range-WLTP.
It's again a case of poor people subsidizing rich people through green taxes, just like solar subsidies, and huge wind subsidies going to wealthy farmers and land owners.

Yet meanwhile average joe gets forced off the road cos uk gov keeps on bringing in more & more stringent MOT testing.

Rant Over!

Almost. But the rich are not interested in electric cars. Even my average joe ish neighbors and my self employed nephews are driving 70k BMW M5s and they are the target, not the rich. The rich dont consider cost at all. Buy 3 range rovers a year for the estate... Write off the cost as a business expense. And a Aston martin for the wife.

Its just socialism in disguise through the back door so we dont notice. Central command economy. Called green socialism. Everyone is forced to subsidize a CO2/planet saving bit of bullshit because the lefties and progressives have fallen for the save the planet religion. This is a super expensive green renewable fuel thing. It will cost EVERYONE in lowered living standards over time, a poorer country, higher business costs that make us uncompetitive in the world. So poorer as a society. With less personal money to spend on goods and services or MOT's, while we all pay to shut down cheap power production that made us rich in the first place and build super expensive renewable systems that quite literally dont work instead. Your gas and electricity bill are already around 35% higher because of this, and general taxation is higher too. As is fuel at the pump! 85% tax!

[shirley_hkg]

Got started on this project, finally .

[shirley_hkg]

7 cells cost £117.

Delivered : 66836 + 445 = 67,281mah. （96.1% as capacity claimed） .

Put back : 69237 + 538 = 70,775 mah .

Note all lines stayed together . Balanced only in minutes .

[Scooterman]

Got started on this project, finally .

Cardboard has good fire resistance properties

7 cells cost £117.

Delivered : 66836 + 445 = 67,281mah. （96.1% as capacity claimed） .

Put back : 69237 + 538 = 70,775 mah .

Note all lines stayed together . Balanced only in minutes .

Nice graphs

At that price on hindsight I should have gone for LiCo and left (and charged) the scooter outside. It stays outside for half the year anyway. But it's only since having the lifepo4 that I've started to understand the technology and the PL8
But at them prices I'd accept the risk (and less cycles) and install lico in the small scooter and powerchair. Is lucky in that at least I can get off of the damn thing I'm sat on if it goes up in flames

The technology is addictive

[Burgerman]

Should go like a bomb!

[Scooterman]

Should go like a bomb!

Ha Ha! Nice one!

But at least it won't cost a bomb!

I don't know BM, after many months of head scratching (and with your help and patience) I'm now starting to get into battery technology and charging, it's really interesting

[Burgerman]

And once you "get it" you can figure out a crap load of things, and set up profiles etc and know why you are doing and choosing what you do. It all becomes obvious.

The real advantage for me, is that instead of getting 9 to 11 months from a set off lead batts, and always be harassing the WCS for new ones I now have some Odyssey's that are 10+ years old! Because I now understand the importance of:
CORRECT charge voltage.
Correct very low charge TERMINATION current and so the sheer time it takes to 100% charge lead.
Not discharging too heavily.
Charging fast at 20 to 40A while sat at my PC, at least once for half an hour or so during the day, and any chance I can.
Charging fast in my van on the way home as I drive...

And the ability to properly do Lithium. Both hobby LiPo which is easy, and LiFePo4 which is not so simple,

[Scooterman]

I'm cooking with gas now BM

TWO PL8s discharging two lifepo4 packs, TWO CCS running together on ONE MacBook pro running boot camp with an activated version of W10.

All thanks to members of WD.com

NB: Because my PSU went , I started charging 4S but got the cells muddled so all unbalanced.

So I made two 8S packs, charged to 3.5V bal at C.V. (Put in about 40-50Ah), but would have taken ages to balance. So disconnected and charged individually to 3.5v, re-connected as 8S, charged to 3.6V. Balanced really quickly. Now discharging to 3.0v, gonna note down terminal voltages, then mix and match and build by two 2P4S packs. Then wait for UK customs to release shirley's parcel, but probably not until I receive a letter from HMRC asking for their pound of flesh.

[Scooterman]

PS: When I've arranged them as 2 x 2P4S I'll charge as 2P8S to about 30% SoC so cell voltages aren't sitting low for ages while I wait for UK customs to clear.

[Burgerman]

You found a new hobby!

[Scooterman]

Thanks to your good self BM

(and Shirley for lifepo4 + extras, Steve for W10, and Expresso at the very beginning for his build threads and ‘can do attitude’)

[steves1977uk]

No probs SM!

Steve

[Burgerman]

Battery charging isnt actually a hobby for sane normal people

[Scooterman]

Battery charging isnt actually a hobby for sane normal people

I agree, but we're not sane or normal

But it is interesting

Also I didn't realise you played a part in the PL8 development via beta-testing. You're the reason we can use it to charge large lifepo4 packs, so thank you

[Burgerman]

And lead. Was originally the hyperion. They were keen to learn and I did a LOT of beta testing and talking to them. Very responsive company. But it turned out unreliable and the guy running the company's son had an accident and kind of went offline for a few years and they stopped making them at least for a bit. So I was looking for a replacement.

The PL8 existed but was so safety nazid down, and its settings were so restrictive that it was a nightmare. And it wouldnt allow many settings we needed, had a bunch of bugs or "features" in firmware that prevented charging Lead properly. And the same with LiFePO4.

So I spent a lot of time trying to get them to fix stuff and hundreds of emails. They didnt exactly work with me and it was more argument than a helpful response. In the end, they changed a bunch of things in a firmware update once they figured out I might be right, that allowed it to be used for lead/LiFe properly. And changed some presets. The problem is that they want to make 1000 excuses as to why their way is safer. But too restrictive. Because they are dealing with hobby idiots that are exploding LiPo batteries and burning down houses. And we found a way to mod the presets too, to allow a few wider settings than appears on the CCS software internally. 2 years of partly adverserial contact with their beta tester. So PL8 is now good! But it was hard work... So I bought 4.

[steves1977uk]

I was one of the first to try the PL8 out, and with BM's help, a lot of the issues got fixed.

Steve

[Burgerman]

I will give just ONE example of some important changes I got sorted over a 2 year period.
Behind the scenes, the charger looks at the highest and lowest cell voltage as you charge. Previously, if it ever saw a 150mV gap, it stopped charging and then started a "safety charge" at just .5A. That was originally intended to stop burning down houses with LiPo chemistry. They retained this with oher chemistries.

So after a few argument/discussions the gap between the highest and lowest cells "allowed" was increased to 250mV to try and stop that happening. Which was better but not actually quite enough. Its possible on an unbalanced pack to exceed this. And so by by also modding the presets I am now able to increase that further still to 350mV. And to set it to not start checking untill a higher voltage threshhold. So now this never interferes and prevents the PL8 from properly charging and balancing an unbalanced large LiFePO4 pack.

Why? Because the improved 250mV gap they now allowed, doesent work on LiFePO4 packs that are large as they may exceed this gap and trigger a slow .5 amp charge and take over 3 weeks to charge... And they shoot up from 3.3 to official 3.65 volts at the charge end fast. Thats a 350mV gap. So their increased 250 is not enough. But on a badly balanced pack, thats quite possibly a 3.2V low cell... So I increased the voltage that it begins to check to above our usual charge voltage... Because theres no safety issue on this chemistry and so now this "feature" does nothing!

Remember this was one fix of many. Like the charge voltage where balance begins. It was fixed at a too low voltage, UNBALANCING our large packs for hours as they charged, only to have to rebalance later on for another few hours.

There were another half a dozen similar changes for lithium, and a few for lead that prevents issues and lets us charge properly. All now sorted if you use firmware 3.33 and my modded presets.

Anyone using a different charger, like the new ones with the built in bump controller thingy, or any other manufacturer will run into all the same issues and be starting from the begining all over again... So every time people say what about x charger I despair! Knowing that behind the scenes lives a phone book of computer code that was written by a programmer that does not understand batteries waiting to catch them out with as yet unknown problems and lack of important user settings.

[shirley_hkg]

This is a valuable piece of history , and should be well-kept and moved HERE ↓
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... f=2&t=6510

[shirley_hkg]

Testing various charge rates .

[shirley_hkg]

[Burgerman]

Dont get it...

[shirley_hkg]

It's another adjustable CC /CV 3-stage charger … module , only that it is powered by 20-30V dc.

[ex-Gooserider]

Wouldn't it cool better if you peeled the blue plastic film off the fan holes?

ex-Gooserider

[shirley_hkg]

John,
can I use those solar inverters in this application ?

Which one to choose ?

[Burgerman]

Which are 'those'?

I have many, most are grid tie, theres one on my van thats 12 or 24v soar in with tracking, that can charge 24V. I think. But it wont like being fed via a battery. Its meant to watch voltage, and regulate load on panel to achieve max watts output. Called max power point tracking. MPPT.

[shirley_hkg]

I'd like to find a more compact regulator that will acts as a mobil charger as above , powered by another battery .