Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby expresso » 18 Apr 2019, 02:51

snaker wrote:I am using this one. It works fine and stable.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... cker&hl=en


thanks i give it a try
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby shirley_hkg » 18 Apr 2019, 04:12

Is it free ? :clap:
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby expresso » 18 Apr 2019, 04:14

yes - i just downloaded it- i hope it stays active once i start it and go out -
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby swalker » 18 Apr 2019, 04:18

Geo Tracker is a pretty well regarded replacement for the now-defunct Google MyTracks app. I recommend it.

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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby Burgerman » 18 Apr 2019, 04:56

Do you realise that doing the lithium thing, properly, has given your scooter almost as much range as a pertol one?

With about another 30% or so still in reserve.
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby Scooterman » 18 Apr 2019, 08:56

snaker wrote:
@Scooterman: Break it :joint

Capture_20180428_080217.png

Jesus Snaker! That is an insane distance czy There's no way way i could ever beat that. I'd be carted off to meat factory in one of these :ambulance if i ever attempted it. But on a long trip my average speed is about the same as yours. I did 20 miles yesterday, it was nice cos it was sunny and warm for a change Image

Image
(The blurry thing at the end of the long path is windsor castle)
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby Scooterman » 18 Apr 2019, 09:00

Burgerman wrote:Do you realise that doing the lithium thing, properly, has given your scooter almost as much range as a pertol one?

With about another 30% or so still in reserve.

Wow! No i didn't realise that. As i don't use the scooter everyday i only need to recharge about once a week now.
It's good because now it's the spring i leave it chained up outside with a waterproof cover on. Before with lead i had to lug the charger outside to the scooter after every trip.
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby swalker » 19 Apr 2019, 18:13

Here is an update on my failed Revolectrix PL8 charger. See previous posts in this thread for a description of the failure.

After coordinating with Revolectrix, I shipped the dead charger back to them. I received a replacement charger today, at no charge.

Revolectrix has been great through the entire process.

Along the way, I decided I need a fully redundant backup, so ordered a second charger, power supply and USB adapter from Revolectrix. When those were delivered, the Post Office did not deliver it to our door. They saved about 10 steps and placed the package right behind the rear tire of my wife's car. Carnage ensured.

I was pretty heartbroken when we found the squashed package. After pilfering through the wreckage and pulling out the bits and pieces, I was amazed to find the PL8 charger and USB adapter were undamaged (though the PL8 box was squished). The power supply case was a bit distorted and the end plates were bent.

I called Revolectrix for information needed to handle the claim against the Post Office. I was pretty sure the Post Office would deny the claim, because the box was likely undamaged (by postal service standards) when they delivered it.

Revolectrix offered to resolve the situation by agreeing (without any prompting from me) to send me another unit if the damaged power supply fails any time during the warranty period. They also offered to send me some replacement end plates.

We were able to straighten out the end plates sufficiently so that I declined the offer for replacement end plates. When I disassembled it, I found no internal damage. It has worked fine through 3 charge cycles, so I suspect it is OK.

My point in writing this is that Revolectrix has treated me extremely well. I am a very satisfied customer!

Steve
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby Gnomatic » 19 Apr 2019, 18:34

swalker wrote:
Along the way, I decided I need a fully redundant backup, so ordered a second charger, power supply and USB adapter from Revolectrix. When those were delivered, the Post Office did not deliver it to our door. They saved about 10 steps and placed the package right behind the rear tire of my wife's car. Carnage ensured.


Sometimes, I swear they do this kind of crap on purpose! banghead

Glad Revolectrix had your back. In my limited experiences working with them, they have provided excellent service to me as well.
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby swalker » 19 Apr 2019, 19:07

Here is a picture of the mangled box. I am surprised anything survived!
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby Gnomatic » 21 Apr 2019, 16:32

swalker wrote:
I found 6 AWG copper wire with silicone insulation. But, I really wanted tinned copper and could not find that with silicone insulation. Note that the ProgressiveRC 6 AWG silicone wire is only "tinned at both ends". I wanted it tinned along the entire run. Hopefully, I can find some for the next build.


A little late, but I did find some 6 AWG tinned silicon wire on Amazon. Not cheap but doable.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074N6MVQH/re ... ng_options
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby swalker » 22 Apr 2019, 00:34

Thanks for the heads up.

I also found 6 AWG tinned copper wire on Amazon and that is what I used. Unfortunately, I could not find any 6 AWG tinned copper wire with silicone insulation. I am still looking for that.

Here is what I used, which has PVC insulation. One review claimed it was Ancor brand wire.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MZ ... UTF8&psc=1

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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby expresso » 22 Apr 2019, 02:43

nice wire- was it flexible ? or stiff to bend etc,

just found it - first ever 7 awg - and they say they have 6 awg also

https://smile.amazon.com/BNTECHGO-Silic ... 41&sr=8-22

or welders cable - not sure whats the difference here

https://smile.amazon.com/Gauge-Premium- ... 41&sr=8-10
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby flagman1776 » 22 Apr 2019, 03:16

I really like their wire. I've found it on ebay. But I'm only using / needing small sizes.

https://www.acerracing.com/ball_bearing ... 99-75.html
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby expresso » 22 Apr 2019, 03:19

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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby Gnomatic » 22 Apr 2019, 03:59

swalker wrote:Thanks for the heads up.

I also found 6 AWG tinned copper wire on Amazon and that is what I used. Unfortunately, I could not find any 6 AWG tinned copper wire with silicone insulation. I am still looking for that.



Does this wire not have silicon insulation? It at least suggests that in the title ..... plus tinned copper fine strand ....

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074N6MVQH/re ... ng_options

But I don't have first hand experience with it, so I can't verify
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby swalker » 22 Apr 2019, 05:02

Gnomatic wrote:Does this wire not have silicon insulation? It at least suggests that in the title ..... plus tinned copper fine strand ....


I was too hasty in my review of the link you posted :oops: . It clearly states in the title that it is silicone. Too bad I did not find that when I was looking for wire.

I have about 7 more feet of PVC insulated wire to use up before I will be ready to try the wire in your link.

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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby LROBBINS » 22 Apr 2019, 09:07

I don't understand the fascination with silicone insulation. Yes, it is useful if you are running high current through undersized wires so that it heats up. Yes, it is more flexible. But it is also fragile and easily cut. If there's enough copper in the wire, PVC is perfectly adequate, and if you want a combination of high temp resistance and toughness, there's also teflon insulated wire (but $$$).
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby Burgerman » 22 Apr 2019, 10:03

Agreed. I use it only on the charger cables because they need to be small 12gauge and flexible and safe at 40A. And hobby stuff for the same reason. Stupid currents through small light flexi cables.
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby expresso » 22 Apr 2019, 15:55

i been hearing all about silicone for its heat etc, - so i figured anything wire would be best to use it - so on this size wire 6 AWG is not needed as a must ? but its flexible which can come in handy sometimes -

maybe i stick with PVC on a 6awg wire then -- ?
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby flagman1776 » 22 Apr 2019, 16:40

I had been using real marine grade wire left over from when I worked in that field. I started buying the silicone for power cables which are plugged / unplugged regularly. I won't be going back.
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby expresso » 22 Apr 2019, 18:00

i also have some marine 8 awg cable - i purchased a roll a long time ago when i first started and i found it be very stiff - strong but stiff - since learning about the silicone from the pl8 etc, much easier to work with bending - but then again if you dont need to bent it much - the marine PVC is also good and strong

what i did now was check some ring terminals i have to see which fit what size cable - and turns out my heavy duty 6 awg terminals dont even fit the 6 awg wire i have - so i checked the same wire with a 4 awg terminal and it fits in there better - able to add some solder also - i am finding on most heavy duty terminals that i need to get one size larger than the wire being used.

does anyone else notice that or have had same thing happen to them ? the heavy duty ones i have are thick barrel and longer than most of the cheaper ones that are thinner and shorter
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby Burgerman » 22 Apr 2019, 18:08

Depending where made, they are likely to be nearest equivelent to the rest of the world, and terminals so are likely 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 16 sqmm sizes. Sold as your AWG or whatever it is closest to. So it wont be an exact fit maybe.
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby ex-Gooserider » 23 Apr 2019, 02:44

The flexibility of wire is primarily a function of how it is made, much more than the type of insulation that is used on it... In general for any given size, the more strands (which means each strand is thinner) the more flexible... However this can also mean higher cost, as the super flexible is less popular and is harder to make... The Electrical codes for home and industrial wiring, at least in the US, usually calls for stiffer solid or minimally stranded types on anything that is 'permanent'.

For MOST applications, the most common poly insulation is more than adequate.... As Lenny said, silicone is only needed if you expect the wire to be exposed to high temperatures - for our use in chairs, that typically would mean running to much current through to small of a wire, since we don't usually have engine compartments that get super hot... However under normal use, if properly sized, a wire should NEVER get hot!

Silicone is good if you are running high currents through undersized wire because of the need to save on the space / weight that the 'right' size wire would take, but it tends to be easily damaged... Teflon is much tougher, and has heat resistance that is as good or better (I haven't looked up the exact specs to compare) but tends to be stiffer. It will also give of nasty toxic fumes in a fire if it gets hot enough to actually start breaking down....

For larger wire sizes, I like welding cable - it is reasonable for heat resistance, flexible, and the insulation is heavier and tougher than you get on silicone...

My opinion is that as long as the right size wire is chosen, mechanical damage is far more likely to be a concern on a chair than thermal damage.

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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby swalker » 25 Apr 2019, 02:53

I have been out testing how the range of my X4 wheelchair with the 176 Ah LiFePO4 pack.

After three days of use on a single charge, I accumulated a total of 33.02 miles while climbing over 1,900 feet vertical. The lowest cell was at 2.85 volts when I got home from the last ride. All cells were over 2.9 volts 100 yards from home, but dropped rapidly over those last 100 yards! After the batteries rested a bit, one cell is at 2.998 volts and the other seven are above 3 volts.


So, I am calling the range as 33 miles. That is far beyond what I ever imagined I could obtain with the 176 Ah pack.

This is a 4 wheel drive wheelchair with 4 motors, each driving a 14 inch ATV tire. With lead acid batteries (MK group 24) the most I ever got was 5.9 miles, but 4 miles was more typical of its range.

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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby Burgerman » 25 Apr 2019, 02:58

Well I predicted 5x more with a little in reserve. Than a set of GOOD group 24 batts.

So 5.9m x 5 = 29.5 miles, and a little reserve. So about 33 or so total... Is what was expected. :clap
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby Gnomatic » 25 Apr 2019, 02:58

Well done! :thumbup:
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby swalker » 25 Apr 2019, 03:33

Burgerman wrote:Well I predicted 5x more with a little in reserve.


You were right!

I really owe you a very big thanks for leading the way and especially hosting this forum. The insights I gained here from your experience (and others) gave me the confidence to move forward with the project.

Steve
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby expresso » 25 Apr 2019, 03:49

you did a great job and its pretty cool that you are now able to stay out longer than you ever have - from 5 mile range to 33 miles !!! huge increase -
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Re: Lithium Build for Magic Mobility X4

Postby swalker » 25 Apr 2019, 04:20

expresso wrote:you are now able to stay out longer than you ever have


The wheelchair can definitely stay out longer than I can! I went for a 13 mile ride yesterday and came back pretty beat up. The odometer was showing 20.7 miles since the last charge, so I thought that a ride of 4 miles today would allow me to drain the batteries.

4 miles came and went. Then 8 miles. Then 10 miles. And on and on. I wound up going 12.32 miles today, finally taking the odometer up slightly past 33 miles from the last charge.

All those miles are according to my cycle computer I installed on the wheelchair. It is calibrated pretty well. The GPS app says that I went about 6.5% further:).

I am well and truly spent tonight. I will require a few days to recover.

Now I am in search of hiking partners that can go over 20 miles:).

The last 3 days of riding have been through a mix of conditions. Mostly asphalt with snow, sleet, even a bit of rain, all mixed with sunshine here and there. Temperatures have been 10 to 20 degrees F above freezing for most of the rides.

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