Need a different mobility devise

[flagman1776]

I've had a terrific 7 years with my folding TravelScoot(s). Meanwhile my MS has progressed. I can only walk very little with a walker or other bilateral support.. I'm fine while I am on "Scoot". But I am struggling to lift my better right foot to get it over the crossbars. It's even worse getting off where I have to hang onto the car while I drag my right leg back off. I've gotten into foot trouble several times. Scoot & I have had a good run... but the handwriting is on the wall. No, that's wrong, more like a big neon flashing sign! I need to find a more appropriate mobility devise.

I really like that the TravelScoot is so light... the heaviest piece is 25 pounds. I've been manhandling it into / out of the back seat of an ordinary 4 door sedan. I'm able to get myself out of the driver's seat of this low vehicle. I must use a cane to hook under my weak foot to lift it into the car. It helps that this car has wide doors. I can't get into the passenger's seat without someone to lift my legs in.
When I look at other folding WCs or scooters they are 40-50 pounds. I really doubt I can lift & manhandle them into the back seat The back seat is a bit higher but not as deep[ as reaching across the bumper into the trunk (so i have my traveling rollator walker there).
This car doesn't have a receiver hitch... for a rear carrier. I've heard that installing them on late model cars is an issue. Again, it's a sedan, not an SUV...

I'd really don't know where to go from here. I need ideas.

[Burgerman]

Yes. Be realistic. Get a minivan with lowered floor, ramp, and a decent powerchair that fits it. There are really no shortcuts.

[foghornleghorn]

Although Burgerman's advice sounds an extreme step I would take it.

I tried to keep with just a car and not move on to anything purpose designed, and possibly missed my chance at continuing independent vehicle use. Ended up going from driving myself, to being limited to someone else driving me, or public transport.

[Burgerman]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7835#p118501

New carpet! 50 pounds...

Mines now old. But as new!


Heres a place to start. https://www.rollxvans.com/

[Scooterman]

I concur with what’s been said already. I had an estate (station wagon) with a scooter hoist but would never have one again as hoists take an age to deploy and retract, all while trying to balance on sticks, then struggling to shut and slam heavy tailgate. Then having to hobble round to drivers seat, perhaps while parked on dangerous main road. No thank you, if I ever drive again it will be a mini van with electric tailgate and ramp.

EDIT: Boot hoists are fine for people who can stand and walk a bit.

[Burgerman]

What stops you doing it now?

Although Burgerman's advice sounds an extreme step I would take it.

I tried to keep with just a car and not move on to anything purpose designed, and possibly missed my chance at continuing independent vehicle use. Ended up going from driving myself, to being limited to someone else driving me, or public transport.

[Scooterman]

Not for me but.... I don’t like driving anymore. I don’t think I’m particularly safe behind the wheel (can’t steer and push/pull at the same time, arms too weak), plus there’s too much traffic and I can never find anywhere to park! Much prefer my

But as to the best form of transport disability aside, motorcycle hands down .

[Burgerman]

Till you need to get to a model plane show 150 miles away or even to your local field 5 miles away with all your gear... What about shopping, maybe get a couple of gas bottles, a new bbq, or something? Spring is here so I will be at the garden centre buying trees, pots... And collecting your ex's younger sis from the airport becomes a bit hard! How do I get to the drag strip?

[foghornleghorn]

What stops you doing it now?

Although Burgerman's advice sounds an extreme step I would take it.

I tried to keep with just a car and not move on to anything purpose designed, and possibly missed my chance at continuing independent vehicle use. Ended up going from driving myself, to being limited to someone else driving me, or public transport.

Not wanting to kill someone, or worse.

There's already far too many old people still driving that shouldn't be. I know I won't be driving at 100% capability which isn't safe for me or anyone else, so I'm not going to take the chance. A few seconds of fucking up can ruin someone's life.

[Burgerman]

A good a reason not to as any!

[flagman1776]

I appreciate all the thoughts about a road vehicle. I hadn't gotten that far yet. I'm still without answers to the Personal Mobility Vehicle... because my left side, not just foot & leg but arm & hand, are so impaired a manual WC would not work at all. Probably be good at turning in circles! I'd rather do a scooter IF I can find one I can get on & off safely. A Power Chair is the other option...

[Burgerman]

A good one, is the only option. Legs no work, you are up shit creek without.

[Dan]

I think the dude just wants to keep using a lightweight scooter. I have never used one myself so can't help you there.
Are you driving an unadapted car? The TravelScoot is a very small light scooter, if your not very big you could make a removable plate that sits across the top of the crossbars. Don't know if you tried it but I would try lifting my right leg out while sitting down then spin round on the seat then lift the left leg out so both are on the ground then try and stand up but it does already sound like your on the edge of your capabilities.

[Dan]

Ohh I just noticed that the foot rests are on the front on top of the wheel! That really is a small scooter.

[flagman1776]

Yes, the TravelScoot is a very small & lightweight scooter.
Since I can't lift my left leg, I get on from the left so I don't have to. To get on, I do have to lift my "better" right leg enough that I can get my foot onto the cross bar. I have to stand just so, to get the leg lift I need. I have had to remove the red fabric tote so I have an intermediate place to stand to do the second cross bar. To get my non-lift left leg onto the foot peg, I reverse the cane & physically lift it.
To get off, I have to stand up. I put my feet down, shift my weight to the left & hang onto my car or other fixed object while I pull the left leg across the frame cross bars.

I tried sitting & then swinging feet around but there isn't enough room & I don't have the leg lift either. Others have removed the backrest & mounted from the rear. I haven't tried that yet.

I'm 5'6 & about 240#...

Yes, I'm driving an unadapted car, a 2012 Dodge Avenger 4 door sedan. I have to use the cane trick to get my legs in & out of the car too. I'm putting a lot of lift on the cane. The cane's rubber "foot" just pushes on... and pulls right off. I've put a screw through the rubber & into the metal so I can use it as a lifting devise.

What I want & what I need may be very different. I've had great success with 'Scoot' over 7 years, I really wish I could continue. Ditto the car... I may be reaching the end of the run with that too because of the leg issue getting in & out. I appreciate the ideas. Keep them coming, please.

[flagman1776]

I have not found any more suitable mobility devise that is compatible with a 4 door sedan. I don't think a rear carrier is a good idea: I haven't even found a 2" receiver hitch listed for it, which alone tells me something.
So I am understanding why you recommended a lower floor, adapted vehicle. I never thought about an adapted vehicle... I have a lot of learning to do.
I understand that several base vehicles can be converted. Experienced users... tell me your thoughts.

[ex-Gooserider]

It is a tough call to make - but bottom line is that MS, at least at present, is a degenerative disease, where your condition is going to slowly get worse over some unpredictable length of time. One can hope for a cure, and there is a lot of promising research, but just like with SCI, they have been "promising" for years..... Frankly I'm not real optimistic....

You basically have two options

1. Try doing successive changes to different vehicles and devices that work for you in the stage you are at now - each of which will work for some unknown length of time. Downside is that each change will cost you for whatever needs to be replaced, and presumably you will end up in some form of the power chair and van combo eventually regardless....

2. Go directly to the end step and get the adapted van up front, and save the money on multiple vehicles..... It is possible to use a van with any of a wide range of devices, and change whatever mods you need as your condition changes (note that you WILL get sticker shock at what the van costs)

I've never done the scooter thing, but I think a chair is a much better choice for most activities simply because it lets you get up closer to things - there is no tiller and front wheel mess in front of you, so no need to work around it.... The scooter is OK if one can (somewhat) easily stand and walk a bit, or transfer from the scooter to a regular chair, but as the ability to do that goes away, being able to just pull up to the table or whatever seems more desirable...

ex-Gooserider

[flagman1776]

ex-Goose, you have a very good grasp of my situation. I had very slow progression until about a year ago. I've been in that "Secondary Progressive" MS phase since 2002. Right now, I can still stand enough to transfer walk with a walker or walls or counters to hold on to. My left side is very weak, upper body as well.
But I have lost most of the ability to lift even my good leg/foot... which is why I'm struggling with my beloved TravelScoot. I like a scooter. It's simple to operate, doesn't need reprogramming. A scooter with a flat foot area would work for mobility but isn't compatible with my 4 door sedan.
I'm just beginning to research & learn.
A scooter isn't drive from van seat. I'd need to stand to transfer. Transferring to a driver's seat inside an adapted vehicle is likely going to be very difficult.
I don't have any answers. I barely know enough to ask questions.

[Mechniki]

could the 'scoot' go into a wheelchair roof mounted box? That way it could be lowered and raised from either side of a car. It looks like a wishbone, design so should flatten a bit. You could always adapt the 'scoots' steering column so that folds down too as well as a folding seat post. Like a folding manual scooter
in the UK there is a company called Autochair that does conversions for roof loaders.
https://www.autochair.co.uk/

[flagman1776]

The TravelScoot does indeed, come apart & fold up. That is it's claim to fame. But my ability to step across the frame to mount / dismount is the issue.

If I could still reliably step over the frame, we'd not be having this conversation. I'm perfectly content while I'm on Scoot.

Switching to a scooter or powerchair that I can safely & reliably get on & off pretty much eliminates my current 4 door car. What I don't know is do I drive a new devise into a new vehicle? Do I transfer to a front seat (mostly driver's but sometimes passenger's seat)? What type of road vehicle do I need to do that?

[flagman1776]

I need to explore both the scooters with flat floors & power wheelchairs. There are a couple off used scooter/wc places which would give a larger try selection than a brand limited vendor. Not ready to buy anything in this research phase.
Second, to visit a adapted vehicle dealer to get into & try.
I just don't know how my deficits are best met at this stage. Disabilities come in all shapes & sizes... different obstacles require different solutions. I'm flying blind at this point. I need better information.

[Burgerman]

Forget about the now stage. Think about the end case, worst case, and dont waste money on a temporary solution. Figure out whats needed in 5 to 10 years. Make a big plan and implement that. Even if thats way more involved than you are thiking right now. Because otherwise you are wasting time and money that will all need to be thrown away and start again in what a year? 3 years?

My two penneth.

So decent powerchair, decent lowered floor drive from wheelchair van, and move somewhere thats ground floor, has adequate parking, place for carers to sleep, wide doors, wet room, plenty space. And then adapt wet rooms/kithchens, etc. It takes TIME...

[flagman1776]

Today is gone. I am certainly looking long term with the home modifications we've done & are doing. Personal devises like scooters & wheelchairs are easily swapped. A road vehicle is a larger investment & not so easily flipped. I wouldn't be happy switching to a PWC now & it would create more problems than it solves... for me. But I'm flying blind. I haven't had a chance to follow up with my research. I may feel differently after I learn more.

[Burgerman]

Today is gone. I am certainly looking long term with the home modifications we've done & are doing. Personal devises like scooters & wheelchairs are easily swapped.

But the surroundings need to be different. For e.g right now you can likely get about, sit at a table, etc. With a chair you will need a year or so to figure out how to configure it, what you actually need, get used to it, wider doors and access for it into rooms you currently dont need anything for. And while they are easier in many ways, as you can get closer to stuff, they tend to be wider. And in the end after you waste money on mods for a scooter, you still wont have a wet room, shower chairs, possible need for hoist, space or wide enough hardstanding to park and use a van ramp, and you cant really drive that from a scooter. You will be dragging yourself to a chair once inside. if its short enough. How long till you cant do that? So while you are able configure hand controls, tie down, etc.

A road vehicle is a larger investment & not so easily flipped. I wouldn't be happy switching to a PWC now & it would create more problems than it solves...

Why? Also those types of wheelchair driver vans cost a fortune, so you really need to be starting to work out how to save for one, and use charities etc if needed to help. Its all time, and not throwing good money after bad. And yes, getting past the mental block that tells you you dont need it.

[flagman1776]

The new parking will accommodate an accessible van. The ramp we just built will accommodate a scooter or wc. The next project is a wet room which will involve moving the bathroom wall to gain the necessary space.

[Burgerman]

[scootntootn]

How about switching the seat for now. A folding boat seat. Fold it down and get on from behind. Slide the scooter so your legs are at the tiller. Fold the seat up, slide scoot forward.

[flagman1776]

Some people do mount their TravelScoot from behind simply by removing the backrest or replacing the seat. It's quite impossible to move the seat forward / backward on such a tiny scooter. Sitting on the seat, your feet are either side of the tiller. It would be very easy... some have reported flipping a TS over backward... the seat centerline is very near the rear wheel centerline so a weight shft could be catastrophic..

[scootntootn]

I didn’t mean to slide the seat. Move the whole scooter. A lot of people are using those boat seats currently. All different sizes. I obviously don’t know what their ability to balance is like or how back heavy it would get.

But take the back off your existing seat first just to see if you can get on that way at least before considering alternative seating options.

[flagman1776]

I did. It's not helpful for me. I put it back.