Bounder, foam filled tires slower?

[Dan]

I was just reading the Bounder's order form for a bit of a laugh and I noticed it says that its "foam filled tires reduce the chair speed by about 10%." Why would that be?

Also charging $1000 for a hand held DX programmer is criminal!
It only has a 90A controller? I mean that is a bit strange considering they push the chair as an outdoor off road chair. Or you can get the high speed option, 11MPH but I bet the high speed means a lot less torque.
DX2 90A power module with light control (incl DX2pm loom kit) $1600
Group 27 batteries with an 8A charger. There is also a 24V 100Ahr LiFePO4 Battery but for $3,750.00 + $500 for a 10 Amp charger.
DX2-REM550 Joystick $1100

They have two motors Super Torque 4 $1260 and Super Torque 3 $1150. Might they be the same motors but with different gearing?

The pricing for their extras like lift, tilt and recline is shocking They do a version for a 1000lb (450KG) person, that is six times my weight

http://www.wheelchairs.com/products.htm

[Burgerman]

I was just reading the Bounder's order form for a bit of a laugh and I noticed it says that its "foam filled tires reduce the chair speed by about 10%." Why would that be?

The boundr does not have a lot of torque. The motors are big physically but seem to be quite high impedance. This means they will slow on hils and slopes. Flat free foam filled type tyres are harder top push. (the motors do the pushing!). So you will lose speed as if they are going uphill. And also some range as well. The chair will be slower, esp high speed chairs. Foam filled tyres dont change speed much on slower chaiors, but they do in taller geared ones.

Also charging $1000 for a hand held DX programmer is criminal!
It only has a 90A controller? I mean that is a bit strange considering they push the chair as an outdoor off road chair. Or you can get the high speed option, 11MPH but I bet the high speed means a lot less torque.

I thought they offered their own (120-A) and R-Net 120 as an option. DX??

DX2 90A power module with light control (incl DX2pm loom kit) $1600
Group 27 batteries with an 8A charger. There is also a 24V 100Ahr LiFePO4 Battery but for $3,750.00 + $500 for a 10 Amp charger.
DX2-REM550 Joystick $1100

Somewhat steep... And we can fit 210Ah in that same space now so 100Ah is a bit of a feeble attempt. ERsp as the bouunders are greedy and use more Ah per mile compared to say a quickie chair. Ask expresso he measured this on his own lithium bounder.

They have two motors Super Torque 4 $1260 and Super Torque 3 $1150. Might they be the same motors but with different gearing?

The motors dont have gears. They offer chains and sprockets in variuous ratios. The difference is in motor imopedance.

[Dan]

Looks like I missed their own 120A system but I can't see rnet on the normal order form. It might be there somewhere!

UE1H Premium 6-Program Wheelchair Electronics & OptionsUE1H DM24B6292A

Power MOSFET bridge output circuits rated at over 120A per motor.
http://www.wheelchairs.com/electronics.htm
Good for them for having their own I guess, even if it does look a little dated.

[Burgerman]

Good luck getting the OEM tool for that! Maybe they now swapped from PG to Dynamic for controller option.

[shirley_hkg]

Anyone share the same as mine that foam filled tyres are undersized to its pneumatic counterpart ?
They are 13'' actually .

[Burgerman]

Yes but so are most pneumatic 300 x 8 mobility tyres.

[rover220]

the dx2 90a is the same capability as the rnet 120.

[LROBBINS]

Just checked the Dynamic PM2 manual to be sure my memory wasn't playing tricks. The 90A variant is 90A per channel with a "boost" of up to 120A. That's the same as the RNet 120, which can do 120 only for short bursts.

[expresso]

looking forward to the videos - factory tour etc, - i agree about the JS Box - - its actually very good once you get used to it -

i would love a bit more bottom end on steep hills - mod. ramps etc, its OK - not fast but moving steady - steep and it bogs down too much - i can avoid those hills so no big deal.

but its ok - the speed makes up for it - much happier when i am moving - just feels effortless - its not perfect but i love it more each time i ride

love locking up the tires makes everyone around you wake up and the horn

downside is always - have to adjust the chains and clean them often - but smooth and quiet when clean and adjusted - dosnt take long to do but its something you have to do if you want to be trouble free -

[Burgerman]

danpayton, Its correct that the PM90 and R-net 120 both do 120A per motor. On the MOTOR CABLES!
Thats a different thing to battery Amps that you are measuring. Hence your 135A confusion.

Its entirely possible to measure 120A on each motor, while simultaniously measuring 70 to 140 approx on the battery cable where you gadget fits. The two things are different!

Why? Because the motor impedance is low enough to be pulling 120A max, limited by controller software, at a pulsewidth of say 25% or if you like an equivelent voltage to 6V. Thats a total of 120A X 6V = 720 watts. EACH MOTOR. At the 24V battery voltage, thats 720W, X2 1440 Watts total, or 1440 div by 24V = 60A on the battery cables.

Did that give you a headache?
To make it more complex, at the same load, but as speed increases, the pulsewidth must increase to stay at the same 120A motor limit. So at max 120A motor load, the battery Amp loading increases with speed/pulsewidth. Because the motor acts a s a generator and develops a voltage of its own as you speed up.

So a lower impedance motor actually has a lower battery current at the same torque/motor Amp level. And a higher impedance one has a higher battery current. The opposite to what you would expect.

[Burgerman]

Also, would you like much more programming options than you already have? I mean for the Dynamic controller?

You can easily make it much more accurate and linear to control than it is now. And you can also do the same with the R-Net. With OEM programming capability... PM me...

[Burgerman]

You dont need to.The R-Net has that already!

As a simple experiment. Go to the OEM softwares diagnostics or system tests from the top menu bar. I forget which. Sit in the chair. Now watch the MOTOR AMPS. And the BATTERY AMPS as you slowly begin a zero speed turn in place. You will see very high motor amps, and relatively low battery amps. For what its worth, you can also see the Motor VOLTS, and battery volts. You will see that the motors draw 120A at around 4 to 5 Volts or less at low speed on typical quality 4 pole motors.

The 2 pole linix that you dissasembled in the video is higher impedance, At almost double that of the same motor with 4 poles as fitted to the sunrise quickie chairs. (they use the same linix motor, and you can order it with 2 or 4 pole). With that less powerful motor it takes around 10V to draw 120A.

Its easy to see how high motor amps are with a clamp meter too. Heres an olde worlde Pilot Plus 100A system. With a Clamp AMP Meter, clamped over ONE motor wire. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/motoramps.mp4 years back. Long before it all came neatly built into the programming software!

I’ve used the little dumb handheld DX programmer.. but it didn’t allow for much at all in the way meaningful settings
Is there another backdoor or device I can built for DX2 stuff?

Thanks!

Absolutely. Its not as easy to use as R-Net but allows much the same thing.
It can do DEALER, OEM, and A setting that is beyond even that intended for the Dynamic Engineers...

Also you can get a lot more programability on DYNAMICs software that that stupid handheld. Beyond OEM level. It can be programmed with much more precision and linearity than the typical dealer or normal OEM software allows. For a start you can increase turn acceleration rates beyond the user settings by adjusting something called TURN ACCELERATION SCALER. which makes it way better to drive by taking all that delay from the turn acceleration/deceleration away.