Balder powerchairs are back in business

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Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby Cal » 09 May 2019, 16:21

Balder powerchairs are back in business. Spare parts and servicing are available :clap: (apparently), and new Balder powerchairs will be brought to market during summer 2019

http://www.baldertech.com/HOME/

Good news (I think) for those of us who own them. They were certainly well ahead of the curve and offered all the tilt/raise/recline features back in the 1990's, but suffered from being crazy expensive!. Will be interested to see if they come up with anything new.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby rover220 » 09 May 2019, 17:41

its good news and i know Jason will do a great job as he always has.

they are a decent chair with a few unique plus pints but times have moved on now and unless they can up the battery capacity to a sensible size and start offering rnet then there are many better options out there now.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby White Lightnin' » 14 Jul 2019, 18:10

Was Jason a part of the business the first time around? One motor on my chair started leaking almost as soon as I got it. I was lucky the salesman was able to get it replaced. The chair won’t go above the speed allowed when the seat is raised beyond a certain point right now. I think it is probably due to a bad switch, but I’m not sure where to start first. I liked the chair and want to get it going again so I can put some of the wider/softer tires on it.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby Burgerman » 14 Jul 2019, 19:54

Tilt the seat and look for a microwitch.

Alternatively, just disable the inhibit in programming.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby rover220 » 14 Jul 2019, 21:08

White Lightnin' wrote:Was Jason a part of the business the first time around? One motor on my chair started leaking almost as soon as I got it. I was lucky the salesman was able to get it replaced. The chair won’t go above the speed allowed when the seat is raised beyond a certain point right now. I think it is probably due to a bad switch, but I’m not sure where to start first. I liked the chair and want to get it going again so I can put some of the wider/softer tires on it.


yes always was part of it albeit as an employee.

are you getting a 2 flash on the joystick? the microswitch for the lift is mounted down low at the back of the chair, not immediately obvious.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby White Lightnin' » 12 Oct 2019, 16:02

I have a Balder power chair from a few years back that came with Sonnenschein batteries. From looking at the Sonnenschein website it looks like they are one of the 512xx... models. To make sure I don’t order the wrong batteries, can anyone tell me for sure which model? The chair is a front wheel drive model about five to ten years old.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby rover220 » 12 Oct 2019, 22:50

White Lightnin' wrote:I have a Balder power chair from a few years back that came with Sonnenschein batteries. From looking at the Sonnenschein website it looks like they are one of the 512xx... models. To make sure I don’t order the wrong batteries, can anyone tell me for sure which model? The chair is a front wheel drive model about five to ten years old.


Gf1244y
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby Burgerman » 13 Oct 2019, 07:27

Any 22nf sized batt will fit. But its too small for purpose so you are wise to buy either MK or Sonenshein. The MK is actually better spec, and has a slightly better cycle life at 500 cycles to 80% discharged. Compared to 450 cycles down to 75% DOD. But then its also more expensive.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby rover220 » 13 Oct 2019, 17:16

Burgerman wrote:Any 22nf sized batt will fit. But its too small for purpose so you are wise to buy either MK or Sonenshein. The MK is actually better spec, and has a slightly better cycle life at 500 cycles to 80% discharged. Compared to 450 cycles down to 75% DOD. But then its also more expensive.


22nf don't fit the balder well, stick with gf1244y they are easily available.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby Burgerman » 14 Oct 2019, 07:09

gf1244y is a 22nf case size. But its true that they dont all measure exactly the same. The sonnenshein is about 3 or 4mm smaller in every direction. But grp22nf should all be similar/swappable in theory. But sometimes not...
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby rover220 » 15 Oct 2019, 17:12

Burgerman wrote:gf1244y is a 22nf case size. But its true that they dont all measure exactly the same. The sonnenshein is about 3 or 4mm smaller in every direction. But grp22nf should all be similar/swappable in theory. But sometimes not...


They are quite a bit different.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby White Lightnin' » 16 Oct 2019, 03:55

Just try to get a gf1244y in the US. It’s a European battery. The battery model isn’t even listed in the US catalogue. I was going to order MK. Be careful of ordering an IOTA battery charger or power supply. I’ve been told by a Battery Stuff person they only operate as a12 volt outlet mode.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby Burgerman » 16 Oct 2019, 10:21

Your expert is wrong...
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby White Lightnin' » 16 Oct 2019, 12:21

Which expert? The one at Balder or the one at Battery Stuff?
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby Burgerman » 16 Oct 2019, 18:54

All of them. But here, batterystuff. You are talking to0 a saleseman that has about 1% real knowledge and 99% made up as he goes along.

The charge algo is wrong for gel, and will cost you half the cycle life, but there are aleady many here using them on 24V setups. Lenny is one of them.

Heres a typical 24V one. https://www.batterystuff.com/power-supp ... 0-iq4.html
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby White Lightnin' » 16 Oct 2019, 19:20

Thank you. I was fortunate enough to be able to cancel my order on that very charger charger thanks to your comments to an entry I made on this forum. I’m searching for a variable voltage charger now with somewhere around ten volts to charge an MK or Sonnenschein battery. Lots of them on eBay, but none that will say they are up to 240 watts output. I suspect some are only 120 watts. I also have to get a pl8. By then I hope I have what it takes to not destroy expensive batteries. I’ll also have a start on getting a lithium add on or full lithium with a Robotek controller.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby Burgerman » 16 Oct 2019, 20:02

I’m searching for a variable voltage charger now with somewhere around ten volts to charge an MK or Sonnenschein battery.


A charger is much more than volts. And 10V will not charge anything!

For gel you want 14.10V at CV, at 20 Centigrade, 68f, and it MUST terminate at around 1000th of its capacity in Amps, so 70mA on a 70Ah battery, and or 8 hours CV whichever occurs sooner.

For AGM that CV voltage is 13.4 to 13.6V, and the rest is the same.

Float voltage, comes after the above termination point, and is not needed in cyclic use, but should be 13.4 to 13.6V continuous. And DOUBLE those voltages for a 24V battery.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby Irving » 16 Oct 2019, 20:29

I think, possibly, the 10v was a reference to the PL8 input voltage and a misunderstanding of the difference between minimum and preferred operating voltages?
Puma 40, 75Ah LiFePO4 (pic is on tour @ Whistler, BC)
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby LROBBINS » 16 Oct 2019, 21:01

First, I am not using an IOTA charger, but a Schauer charger I got from Expresso. Second, Rachi's chair has Odyssey P1500 batteries and the Schauer (set to flooded rather than gel) has CV and float voltages that pretty well match what Odysseys need - it goes to float too soon, so I do try to leave it on float for a long time whenever possible. Given that Rachi draws lots of Amps at times, but relatively few total AHr per day, the batteries last a long time (though her current set is now getting tired).

The best variable power supply I've seen at a reasonable price is the ZXD2400 from Shirley - and it can easily be programmed as a "3-stage" charger for lead batteries. Mine is in my shop, used mostly as a power supply, but also used for periodically topping up an old pair of Odysseys. I've just gotten a second one from Shirley and when I have time (ha ha) I'll fit it into the fancy case and add an SB50 so that I can use it for charging Pb for now, and later LiFePO4 which I will go to rather than ever buying lead again. I'm delaying and delaying that switchover because with a PL8 I'll be the only one around here who will be able to do the charging and am still hoping that someone (Shirley are you listening?) comes up with a charge-only top balancing device that would let me use the ZXD as a dumb charger without having to follow a precise sequence of who gets plugged into whom and with no more than one button press (and preferably none) to start it. I'm already 74 y.o. and when I'm gone there won't be anyone to manage something as persnickety as a power supply + PL8.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby White Lightnin' » 16 Oct 2019, 22:59

Don’t know where I came up with ten. Baclofen side effects probably.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby White Lightnin' » 16 Oct 2019, 23:08

At the time I was thinking about the maximum charging amperage I saw for an MK battery. I was thinking ten amps and wrote volts. It happens.
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Re: Balder powerchairs are back in business

Postby Burgerman » 16 Oct 2019, 23:20

Best charge amps for a gel battery is around 25A,although more is not usually an issue. Best charge Amps for an AGM battery is arould the same, unless you are looking at batteries like the Optima, or Odyssey. And then the best charge amps, and recommended by the manufacturer is as high as possible. I charge them at 100A in my van, and 50A at my bed, 40A next to my PC all the time.

Charging at low current like 5, 8 or 10A means that you waste half of the overnight 8 hours we have available, doing the bulk charge part. Lets say a typical 8A charger, and you want to put 40Ah back. You waste the first 5 hours, just reaching CV voltage. The battery NEEDS around 6 to 8 hours at CV to be charged enough to reduce the sulfates. Or the battery will have a short lifespan. So the higher the charge rate, the longer we get to top it off, which is essential.
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