Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this chair?

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Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this chair?

Postby Jay_x » 13 Jul 2019, 03:41

Looking at possibly buying a Quickie P-222 and I read a couple complaints about it overheating and shutting down.

anyone have this chair and have any issues with over heating?

also HATE the side mount foot rests, wonder if they can do a center mount but doesn't look like its an option

thanks
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby expresso » 13 Jul 2019, 03:55

Hi - i have this Chair - P222se - and my first ever P220 been indoor chair for ever now -

i never had almost any issues at all with either of them - the 222se never had issues other than one set of motors replaced a few years ago -

its a stiff chair - i changed to Air tires - helped alot - cant say i had any heating issues - the 222se is going on over 6 years now.
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 13 Jul 2019, 04:01

expresso wrote:Hi - i have this Chair - P222se - and my first ever P220 been indoor chair for ever now -

i never had almost any issues at all with either of them - the 222se never had issues other than one set of motors replaced a few years ago -

its a stiff chair - i changed to Air tires - helped alot - cant say i had any heating issues - the 222se is going on over 6 years now.


Great, so you would recommend the P222?

did you get the speed package?

Air tire eh? Ever have a flat? Thats my big fear with air tires.
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 13 Jul 2019, 04:05

and by the way how are you liking your bounder now that you have had it for a while?
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby expresso » 13 Jul 2019, 04:39

i am loving it really - its a very different feel to it - it has its cons - - Range is no longer an issue with the extra 80ah pack - its a stiff ride - which is good and bad - depends on the road surface - the speed feels great - hills take a hit - its a fun chair to use - i got used to both Pros and Cons and not upset about them -

seating position is much better than my other chairs - - if you want a worry free and smooth effortless riding - you need to Clean those Chains at least weekly -

Chain degreaser - chain lube wax - and purrs like a kitten - or else if dirty - you will hear it - feel it and worry about chain derailing maybe also puts strain on the batteries -

i wouldnt recommend this setup for everyone - it was good timing for me - got it covered - i took it

before and after Chains - dirty and clean - make a huge difference
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 13 Jul 2019, 04:52

ok, so how you are cleaning the chain? Like with a rag? I have not been cleaning my chain regularly and yes its probably a really good idea.
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby expresso » 13 Jul 2019, 05:00

Dupont chain degreaeser spray and wire brush then wipe with rag. And dupont chain lube wax. Feels excellent after
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby expresso » 13 Jul 2019, 05:01

I have a bounder also
?
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 13 Jul 2019, 05:11

expresso wrote:Dupont chain degreaeser spray and wire brush then wipe with rag. And dupont chain lube wax. Feels excellent after


great, I am going to do this, and yes I have a bounder right now. The VA is getting tired of fixing it so they will likely buy me a new one soon so now I have to decide what I want.
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby expresso » 13 Jul 2019, 15:46

fixing it ? dosnt sound good to me :) what is it thats your bounder needs fixing - often ? i think everyone is scared of bounders - all the vendors - even though they have a insurance approved model now its still more expensive than other group 3 chairs - and are not willing to do them - for cost wise and also they are scared - when faced with a different chair - - they have no clue what to do or how -

i have to wonder how bounder stays in business to be honest - its a quality chair for sure - built much better than other brands in that sense.

https://smile.amazon.com/DuPont-Motorcy ... 132&sr=8-2

https://smile.amazon.com/DuPont-Chain-S ... pons&psc=1

Get those two items - little did i know how often i have to do this - so on my next order - i think i just buy a case of each -

i didnt expect to have do this as often as i have to - and once a year - you should remove those brakes on the side and clean up in there - blow out any dirt etc, checking the front sprocket also - this winter i will do that and see how that works out -

if someone wants to just sit in a chair and never do anything to it - forget the bounder then. between chain adjustments and cleaning them - is too much for many to do. i double check them each time before i use it and when i get home.

to be fair - i was using a different chair wax after the de-greaser - i started with the above link for chain lube on this last cleaning and will see if it lasts longer at keeping them clean - but once it builds up dirt - chair dosnt feel the same - and no fun - clean them and back in action feels great again - and extends range - its effortless feeling.

you can look and demo a 646 sunrise chair - if they will do you a new chair -
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 13 Jul 2019, 16:36

right now my elevator died, there is a short in the joystick box, batteries are dying.

In the past I have had numerous issues with the exposed drive chain. Rocks kicked up into it a couple time which chipped the gears. It was still running but eventually it overheated and the whole thing seized up. I was really abusing it though, taking it on gravel roads for long drives and such. I hate hate hate the exposed chain. I think its a terrible design flaw.

also the drive chain won't stay taught. I know a little play is fine but it gets really super loose really easily no matter how often its tightened.

Other than that I do love this chair, even though wish it was more responsive and they really should use lighter metals, good grief. I think the entire staff must be trapped in a time bubble that never travelled past 1995 or something. But I love the speed that is for sure. I may actually try to get a new bounder with the lithium package, I dont' know.

So you never had a flat with your air tires?
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby expresso » 13 Jul 2019, 17:19

i hear you - its built like a tank for sure - which may be good for certain things - - in the present setup i have it - i dont consider it a good real off road chair - how it feels with the off road package and slower - more power etc, - i cant say - i guess they figure having a strong base helps with speed - too light may not be good for high speed stability -

for example 646 - if i hit a set of bumps in the road at speed - it can rattle the front end side to side - its less stable - now the bounder handles it fine - dosnt rattle the frame or front end - it just holds its ground - - its a toss up - yes chains are work - i would try to keep them very clean as often as you can - and make adjustment when cleaned - and see - i have mines with a bit of slack - remember its the top chain you want to check - give it a bit of slack - the bottom may seem looser - so many feel it needs to be tighter and then its too tight - and you go back and forth -

if you look at the chain sitting in the chair moving it around slowly a bit - you will see them tighten up as you move - and loosen a bit when you stop - also depending how the gears are engaging - i would like them to be less involving to deal with also - how old is your chair ? what speed package did you get ?

i be honest the joystick box - looks old etc, but turns out it works fine for me - i dont mind it at all now - clean the chains - check the adjustment and try it - if it feels good sounds good - leave it alone - at the moment so far - i havnt had a flat - i have ran over broken glass a few times - i couldnt avoid at last moment

NYC sucks - bike lane full of junk glass - etc, i have to be more careful - i am actually trying hard to wear the tires braking skidding etc, - they hold up pretty well - want to get another set when they wear out and have a spare handy and ready if needed.

so far using Air on all my chairs - its going on 3 years i think - good results and no issues - i did have to let about half the pressure out of those tires when i got it new - it was way over inflated if you ask me - lower pressure - taller gearing and extra battery - takes a toll on the electronics for sure - we shall see how it plays out in the years to come.

Wiring and details on the chair are excellent when new - if they get touched along the way for repairs etc, - if not routed the same way and checked etc, - it can be a problem - most problems arise after its get handled. Chain wear and sprocket wear is going to happen no matter what - hopefully they last at least 2 or 3 years before replacing - hopefully
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 13 Jul 2019, 20:39

my chair is 5 years old, and I got the speed package.

How often do you adjust the chain?

I just ordered those dupont items off amazon, thanks for the tip!

one other thing about this chair I love is the scissors style elevator, its VERY stable. YOu can go up and then drive around no problem. This is unlike those center post elevators that are terrifyingly unstable.

Is quickie and bounder the only 2 that make chairs that go 8 mph or faster? Seems like there was one other company but can't remember.
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Burgerman » 13 Jul 2019, 20:42

Theres many. But its a bad choice for most. The reduction in torque, and increase in battery drain even when going slow, makes it a step too far. Yes those that have it will tell you otherwise. But thats because they typically have the sort of mushy programming that disguises this to the point where you cant tell.

If you want to understand WHY this is, read this carefully. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8997

With 120A controller, I would only recommend 8mph to lightweight users, that do not live anywhere near a hill and stay mostly on flat surfaces. And to expect a reduction in range.
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 13 Jul 2019, 20:59

Burgerman wrote:Theres many. But its a bad choice for most. The reduction in torque, and increase in battery drain even when going slow, makes it a step too far. Yes those that have it will tell you otherwise. But thats because they typically have the sort of mushy programming that disguises this to the point where you cant tell.

If you want to understand WHY this is, read this carefully. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8997

With 120A controller, I would only recommend 8mph to lightweight users, that do not live anywhere near a hill and stay mostly on flat surfaces. And to expect a reduction in range.


wrong thread?
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Burgerman » 13 Jul 2019, 21:44

No. It was a reply to:

Is quickie and bounder the only 2 that make chairs that go 8 mph or faster? Seems like there was one other company but can't remember.


The only difference between a 6mph and an 8mph motor/chair is the number of teeth in the gearbox. Or in the case of bounder the number of teeth in the drive sprockets. Theres a reason that every chair isnt offered with 8 or faster gear ratio. After all they could, it doesent cost any more, and those reasons are above.

The reason many do offer it, if you want, but tend not to offer this to all, is that its not a good idea. Its got serious downsides. And I explained why above.
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 13 Jul 2019, 21:59

Burgerman wrote:No. It was a reply to:

Is quickie and bounder the only 2 that make chairs that go 8 mph or faster? Seems like there was one other company but can't remember.


The only difference between a 6mph and an 8mph motor/chair is the number of teeth in the gearbox. Or in the case of bounder the number of teeth in the drive sprockets. Theres a reason that every chair isnt offered with 8 or faster gear ratio. After all they could, it doesent cost any more, and those reasons are above.

The reason many do offer it, if you want, but tend not to offer this to all, is that its not a good idea. Its got serious downsides. And I explained why above.


ah okay. Well what other company offers a chair 8 mhp or faster other than quickie or bounder?

I can't go back to puttering around at 6 mph or slower after my 12 mph bounder. Just no way, it'll kill me, lol

Realistically I will probably go with the bounder lithium if the VA will spring for it. That resolves the problem of range.
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby expresso » 13 Jul 2019, 22:29

the chair will feel ALOT better once you clean them good and lube them - check your adjustment when your done just in case -

i have had to make adjustments often since i started to use it - - at the moment - it seems to be settled down now - just have to keep them clean - but it will always need an adjustment here and there - nothing you can do about it - chains wear- stretch - sprockets wear - its part of the deal -

about the Speed - I am one of those who will say - 8.5mph is totally fine for me - matter of fact 10mph is about a good around speed - my 646 does it and i used it today - felt great - compared to the bounder - have to say - - as an all around chair 646 is very good - if i had to have just one - i may take that one - -- bounder is great for what it does and not so great for other things - its not good for the ONLY Chair -

the lift is great - fast and stable - better than other lifts - also i had my seating offset back one inch - at no cost - if you wanted more - will cost but can be done - its not cheap though - so i had them do an inch - i do sit in a better position on the bounder than i do with the other chairs -

OK Range is no longer an issue with speed - yes it may waste more battery but today we can fit 200ah - so no longer to be worried about range - i proved it with the bounder 180ah - heavy chair - with me only 165lbs - extra 35lbs for the ADD ON - and i can easily do over 40 miles and only used 37ah of my 80ah ADD ON - -

with the 646 - i have no issues on hills - lithium - tires and few extra volts got me 10 mph - and feels snappy - motor comp. 35 i settled on since it feels best to me and i noticed the difference - it slows down a bit on hills a bit also but no where near how the bounder does -

so its alot better on hills in that respect - i would get another bounder Maybe but only if i have other chairs to use also - i would do it a bit different though -

i would go with the off road package - gives a different motor - top speed is 7.5 there - but more bottom end - and i dont control the tilt lift with the Joystick - have it wired separately -

this gives you the option down the line if you really wanted and had the money to spend - you can then easily swap out the joystick and electronics to 48V - just make the battery yourself and your done - i looked into it -

so lets say you get a 300M chair insurance approved - but get the off road package added when you do it new - costs cheaper - and dont wire the lift and tilt or recline with the Joystick - then your set for 48v down the road -

i am just thinking ahead - but most likely i wont do down that road will be expensive and by that time - i may want to slow down to 6.5mph as i age and progress - but till then - its full speed ahead 12mph !! - feels great to keep up with some bikes on the bike lane and pass them also -

dont pay for the lithium package if insurance dosnt cover it - you can make your own better 200ah instead - if they pay for it - take it and run :D
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Burgerman » 13 Jul 2019, 22:34

Well actually it doesent. Expresso has found that he needs a lithium addon for the lithium bounder.

Why? Ist the bounder is heavy. That eats batteries. 2nd the bounder is not too efficient on a mile per Ah basis. And as mentioned above, its offered in higher speeds Which murders the battery. Plus its only got 100Ah lithium battery, which you cant use all of. Why?

Because it uses a BMS which will pull the plug unexpectedly the moment it sees 1 low cell. Why is that an issue? Well 2 reasons. BMS doesent balance battery packs well Esp if its been stored a while. So its quite possible that after charge, you have 7 full cell groups. And one thats far from it. And you will not know untill the chair just stops suddenly. And your battery lights will not help you as the full cells will make it read as if you have plenty of range left. So for reasons of not getting stuck, i.e.range anxiety, you cant use more than say 70% of its capacity. So 70Ah. In any case you should really avoid using the last 20% even if you know all cells are balanced. So with the tall gearing, heavy chair, quite small lithium pack, and needeing a safety level remaining, the actual range wont be quite what you are expecting. Made much worse with the higher speed gearing option.

For e.g. expresso is using double as many Ah per mile compared to his quickie chairs. So its the same as a battery of double that capacity. So he has a 60Ah add-on pack for his Bounder on top of its built in 100Ah battery.
I am about to order a 210 Ah pack for my own 6mph quickie chair for example. That will fit in the place of a set of 73Ah gel batteries. And being 6mph, it already gets better miles per Ah. That will increase my range by 4.5 to 5 times.

Of course it all depends how far you go or how busy you are as to how much battery you will use.
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby expresso » 13 Jul 2019, 22:47

You will never find a company that sells wheelchairs with lithium without a BMS - so you either deal with it or dont get it with lithium and build your own pack without one - i would do that if insurance dosnt cover it. the ADD ON is an 80ah pack - yes its a heavy chair and will use more no matter what speed you get if you compare it to other chairs - its about 480 pounds alone without the user i believe

its no secret - if you choose a bounder - its mostly choosen for the flat out speed - you have to accept the other flaws it has in exchange for the speed - if you choose - i dont live in San francisco - so not ever block has steep hills to climb :)

you can fit 200ah in the bounder if you do it yourself - that would take away the range issues - i did over 40 miles with it and only used 37ah of my ADD ON - so no worries of getting too low - plus the ADD ON should still take over the load if the BMS shut down for what ever reason -

from what you told me BM - but thinking that over - i dont think it would - i still think the BMS is in the mix and will be in control -

how well its made - we seen the pictures of the BMS thats used - its much better than the avg. cheap ones for $50 - how good who knows -

i let you know the first time it shuts down on me - i dont feel worried as of now anyway - maybe on my next chair - i wont have much of a choice and may end up with 6.5mph - i wont fight it - i am curious to feel it out - it may be useful at times - if you have a few chairs to choose from - you can pick and choose which you like to use at the moment - speed - bounder - comfort and speed - 646 - relaxed and easy going 6.5mph - my 222se seems the slowest of them now -
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 13 Jul 2019, 22:49

well given that I am already used to my current bounder with the crap batteries, I am sure the lithium will be a step up even if I can't use the full capacity of those batteries. If it gets me to say 20 miles per charge I would be happy with that, thats much better than I am currently getting

The problem with messing with a chair I get frm teh VA is that they will then no longer service it for me. Right now if I get a chair thru the VA they pay for all servicing which can be a good chunk of money especially since I beat the hell out of my chairs. They have told me my chairs need more repairs than any other vet.

So if the cost of all those repairs is now on me...shit. Cant' really afford that. So probably won't be altering any chair I get from the VA.

Expresso - you get 10 mph on the 646? Is that because you added a lithium to that? I really wish they had center mounted foot rest on that chair. Wonder how much a pain in the ass it would to make one.
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Burgerman » 13 Jul 2019, 23:30

I can answer that, since I already know what he did.

1. fitted 3.50 x 8 tyres rather than 3.00 x 8 stock size. Exactly the same as taller gearing. Less torque, more current, more speed... But not much.

2. if you use the sunrise version of the R-Net OEM software, which I happened to notice was different from other versions, its got a setting called motor volts. On most chairs thats set to 21.x volts. That means that when using lead batteries, that have considerable voltage "sag" under load, you can maintain full steer control while stressing the battery.

Why is it needed? Because to turn say "left" as you are flat out, requires that the inside wheel slows. But it also requires that the OUTER wheel accelerates. Thats not actually essential, but it feels very odd to steer if the chair steer response is sluggish and the chair slows as you try to correct your course. So if you do not allow a few volts in reserve, then theres no way to speed up that outside motor. As its already going at full speed. So setting this to say 21.4 as many chairs are by default, allows around 3 extra volts to speed up the outside wheel in a turn.

If you fit a lithium battery then instead of the typical 24.something low battery voltage as you drive, you will have around 26 solid volts. And it sags far less than lead as you load it. So you can change this motor volt setting to say 25V from 21.5. That allows a higher top speed. Combined with the tyre size increase, you gain a little but noticible speed.
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 13 Jul 2019, 23:40

ok great burgerman, thanks for that explanation
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby expresso » 13 Jul 2019, 23:53

If you go with the bounder and can get the lithium battery paid for - take it - you can get 20 miles for sure with it - if you get it with lead

you can still make your own pack - drop it in and plug it in - without touching anything on the chair etc, - if you have to have it serviced - then replace it with the lead again.

i wouldnt let anyone take my chair with my lithium pack installed - i would replace with lead first if they really have to take it -

you can make a case for the lithium then and i think the VA can get them covered. bounder is only chair i know that offers lithium -

Sunrise quickie only other chair thats 8.5mph - pride does a 8mph - but you DONT WANT a pride - it sucks - someone here has one its big bulky really bad chair - not even bother with it -

all thats left is the quickie chairs if you want some speed - i dont think the manufacturers dont offer the speed because of all the Neg. points - yes its true - you use more battery - you loose some bottom end - etc. etc. - but its more about what is covered with insurance than those other reasons - and in there eyes safely i am sure. 6.5mph is a very decent speed at some point.

but when your used to 10 and 12 - its very hard to do 6mph after that unless your age catches up to you among other things and you just no longer feel the need for speed - - and depends how far you ride - the longer the roads are and more open space feels slower -

i hit alot of those long open free roads when i go far out in NJ - with the bounder it feels great during those runs - and i notice the times also - cover alot more in less time -

who ever thinks of a bounder for there next chair - just Demo it enough to decide for yourself - after all its all about you - what ever works and makes you happy - thats the best chair for you - dosnt matter who ever dosnt like it -
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby expresso » 14 Jul 2019, 00:00

i seen that chair before - i dont know if Sunrise offers it - i think thats from the seating Motion Concepts - my 646 is like that - with swing aways though -

they get the base from sunrise - then ship it to Motion Concepts for the seating part - lift tilt etc so you it may be an option that way

direct from Sunrise its not on the order forms and they dont offer a seat lift either - they offer tilt and recline - on my next chair - i may have to settle for just tilt or tilt and recline with no seat lift - if i do it that way - i may be able to have sunrise move the seating back as far as it can -
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 14 Jul 2019, 00:17

ah, thanks, that clears things up
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby expresso » 14 Jul 2019, 00:37

the VA order forms for chairs are very different in price than mines - - the VA gets a huge discount - about half - and they are flexable and able to get you a group 4 chair - or another bounder with lithium -

i seen it once before a VA order form - and i was shocked - my order form base 646 is about 10,000 VA about half or a bit less than half -

i dont have it anymore - long time ago - dont know how i found it - if you can get a hold of one the order forms for the VA - you will see

i think you may have a good chance at getting lithium if you wanted another bounder - but remember the same issues will be there as they are now - chains - clean and adjustments etc, - you have enough experience with it so you know if you want another one or not

its still new to me -
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Jay_x » 11 Sep 2019, 16:27

expresso wrote:

with the 646 - i have no issues on hills - lithium - tires and few extra volts got me 10 mph - and feels snappy - motor comp. 35 i settled on since it feels best to me and i noticed the difference - it slows down a bit on hills a bit also but no where near how the bounder does -




Hey expresso if you are still out there, how then did you get the 10 mph on the 646? What does "a few extra volts" mean? Does that have to do with the lithium addition or some kind of programming manipulation? thanks
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Re: Quickie P-222 - over heating issue? Anyone have this cha

Postby Burgerman » 11 Sep 2019, 16:46

Bigger tyre diameter + increase in volts from both lithium and in programming together.
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