polishing the turd!

[Burgerman]

Those things make no sense to me. Not even sure what it is you are searching or looking for.

If it was me I would fit a bearing that allows my to use a 12, 14 or 16mm bolt, and or a 12, 14 or 16mm caster stem. If I couldnt get such a bearing I would use a sleeve to make whatever you can get fir whatever caster or bolt you use.

[duke1]

Those things make no sense to me. Not even sure what it is you are searching or looking for.

If it was me I would fit a bearing that allows my to use a 12, 14 or 16mm bolt, and or a 12, 14 or 16mm caster stem. If I couldnt get such a bearing I would use a sleeve to make whatever you can get fir whatever caster or bolt you use.

sorry i thought id made clear what the question was,as you have pointed out the front caster and wheels are very small the caster fork stem measures 17mm and the length of the shaft is 45mm what i was trying to find out was if there is any other chair you know of that uses a 17mm shaft and the larger wheel 3x4 or thereabouts? im maybe not best at descriptions.
and my other thought was maybe theres a different bearing with the same outer diameter but bigger inner where the shaft fits? if not then at some point i shall have to modify or fabricate my own but am currently saving up for a pillar drill and metal chopsaw as my one handed efforts are getting dangerous/messy! sorry if i am a pain,peace

[Burgerman]

What are the stock bearings?
THEN you can begin.
Many caster forks (you need new right?) just use a bolt. And a nut. So you use a bolt that fits your new bearings, usually 12, 14 or 16mm. Or a sleeve. And then the fork.

So theres no simple answer. You must figure out what you need. Theres unlikely to be a plug and play fork. And most are even sizes and metric. At least here.

17mm sounds way bigger than you want. Are you sure? The caster barrels dont look beg enough to support bearings that bg to me. And the caster fork DOES look big enough for bigger caster tyres/wider rim already.

What bearings? Take them out, measure them, post image and dimensions. And a proper look at the caster fork disassembled.

[duke1]

What are the stock bearings?
THEN you can begin.
Many caster forks (you need new right?) just use a bolt. And a nut. So you use a bolt that fits your new bearings, usually 12, 14 or 16mm. Or a sleeve. And then the fork.

So theres no simple answer. You must figure out what you need. Theres unlikely to be a plug and play fork. And most are even sizes and metric. At least here.

17mm sounds way bigger than you want. Are you sure? The caster barrels dont look beg enough to support bearings that bg to me. And the caster fork DOES look big enough for bigger caster tyres/wider rim already.

What bearings? Take them out, measure them, post image and dimensions. And a proper look at the caster fork disassembled.

hi right i took them apart and this is what i found i have measured as careful as can be the verniers are not the best but close as i can muster,

more to follow,

[duke1]

rest

idk whats going on the pics are now not upload says your end is not working wtf!!!!!!
anyhow i keep trying
like i said there is only a bearing in the top and a bronze bush in bottom end is that normal?seems a bit mickey to me if it is though this is no surprise having seen the laughable build quality of the donor meyra chair,yuck!!!!!right try again upload rest,thanks for your help again,i love your little site.

more to follow,this 3 pic limit is a bind!

[woodygb]

Wipe the grease off and look at the numbers etched into the edge of the outer race.


E.G. 27 16 14 = O.D. I.D. Width

[duke1]

more,ends soon honest!

[duke1]

wont let me post this is last try

feck me i think i done it!thanks for any help

[duke1]

Wipe the grease off and look at the numbers etched into the edge of the outer race.


E.G. 27 16 14 = O.D. I.D. Width

hi woody i hope you are well? i did give them a clean and can find no numbers of any kind on them so have measured as best i can,i found these i would maybe try to make fir i think if i read right there 21mm shaft so i be looking for bearings to make fitting these and the larger 3x4 wheels possible as the current forks are def to small for even 280/250/4 in pneumatic as it fouls top of fork yet thats the size on the "greentyre" solid things that where fitted originally hence the smaller tyres fitted for now but i think maybe these could be made to fit?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2pcs-Electri ... 9a4b9fc817

[woodygb]

The dimensions are in centimeters and only give a general overall size of the fork.... nothing that I can see about the stem size.

Size: approx.21x7x6.5cm/ 8.3x2.8x2.6 inch

Size: approx.21cm x 7 cm x6.5 cm/ 8.3 inch x 2.8 inch x2.6 inch

[woodygb]

Your bearing appears to be 26mm o.d. 12mm bore ...width ?

https://www.google.com/search?q=26+mm+o ... e&ie=UTF-8

Next time you use the caliper make it touch the metal.

[Burgerman]

Without being there and seeing this, I suspect you need to use flanged bearings, because of crap frame design and 26 x 12 mm. And then many forks such as the ones used on the salsa will fit. Its just the fork. You fit a correct length bolt, spacers, etc to fit the bearings.

And then a 9 inch or 10 inch tyre will fit. But that frame is a terrible design.. Cheap and bodgy...

[duke1]

The dimensions are in centimeters and only give a general overall size of the fork.... nothing that I can see about the stem size.

Size: approx.21x7x6.5cm/ 8.3x2.8x2.6 inch

Size: approx.21cm x 7 cm x6.5 cm/ 8.3 inch x 2.8 inch x2.6 inch

hi woody thats what i thought i could not understand there being no size of the shaft itself i guess i could buy them and work it all out then when there in me hand but if i buy them and cant then make them fit i would be cross and suffer earache from the missus,i guess i could try messaging the seller but my experience so far is there little help and mostly lazy! its def harder having to make things to fit but its only way the thing is going to improve and tbh the title of this thread could not be more correct i still cant believe my tina paid £600 for the thing and hated it so much!thanks woody,peace

[duke1]

Without being there and seeing this, I suspect you need to use flanged bearings, because of crap frame design and 26 x 12 mm. And then many forks such as the ones used on the salsa will fit. Its just the fork. You fit a correct length bolt, spacers, etc to fit the bearings.

And then a 9 inch or 10 inch tyre will fit. But that frame is a terrible design.. Cheap and bodgy...

i know!believe me when i say i wish she had never bought it she fell for the seat and it was her choice a big mistake on my part and one ive def come to regret but as the title says im polishing the turd,ie trying to make something barely usable that she wont hate every minute being sat in at 3.25kph!
my only compensation is no matter what i do it is impossible to make it any worse! i wish i still had a mig welder id just make my own set of forks,cheers

[ex-Gooserider]

hi @burgerman idk if you missed the question so thought id try again,
i had a measure the fork shaft is 17mm and is 45mm long,i had a quick search online but can only seem to find 21 mm i dont suppose you or anyone else reading has any clues which other chairs use 17mm shaft but the 3x4 caster wheel?.or can i just find different caster fork bearing with 21mm hole? for any help,peace

It is SOMETIMES possible to find an alternative bearing, but to do so you'd need a spec for the bearing outer race and the bearing thickness, which are the three numbers needed to replace any of the bearings we see on our chairs.... The first two should be marked on the bearing, and any bearing house catalog will list the third as part of the description... Essentially you would look up the specs for the stock bearing and then search for ones with the right ID and the same OD - thickness is less critical depending on how much space you have to work with....\

Also many forks (not all) have stems and forks that can be separated, and if so it would not be a terribly hard job to make a new stem that matches new forks and old stem sizes... (it is less likely that you'd find something that didn't need modifying)

If talking about the axle that the wheel spins on, the same thing applies about swapping bearings, but another option (which again requires some machining) is to make new spacers with a shoulder to fit the new bearing... (Note also that since there isn't much consistency in the thickness of the wheel hubs, you will probably need to be making new spacers regardless...)

ex-Gooserider

[ex-Gooserider]

Ex_gooserider got some last year.

It is £25 each. Tubeless.

Sadly, postage requires 1.5X of that ..

Interestingly, they are fitted w/ tubeless tire valves, but the 3.50-8 tires are labeled as Tube Type...

ex-Gooserider

Adding as a comment about the offset of the wheels.... The ones I got from Shirley had the outside face on the center of the rim. The bolt flange is between 8 and 9mm thick; so the bolt surface is about 8.5mm offset towards the inside of the rim.

It sort of needs this amount of offset in order to have room for the valve stem to fit w/o interfering with the tire bead.

On the four wheels I got, the valve stem holes were not consistently positioned with respect to the big holes in the flange. Most were sort of in line w/ the web rather than the holes but one was almost in line w/ the holes. It looked to me like if one could get wheels where the valve stem lined up with the holes (or drill new holes / plug the old ones) it MIGHT be possible to spin the valve stem 180* so that it pointed through the hole, which would allow bolting to the 'outside' face, and move the rim in by ~8.5mm on each side....

Since I'm making my own hubs, I have opted not to experiment w/ this....

ex-Gooserider

[duke1]

hi @burgerman idk if you missed the question so thought id try again,
i had a measure the fork shaft is 17mm and is 45mm long,i had a quick search online but can only seem to find 21 mm i dont suppose you or anyone else reading has any clues which other chairs use 17mm shaft but the 3x4 caster wheel?.or can i just find different caster fork bearing with 21mm hole? for any help,peace

It is SOMETIMES possible to find an alternative bearing, but to do so you'd need a spec for the bearing outer race and the bearing thickness, which are the three numbers needed to replace any of the bearings we see on our chairs.... The first two should be marked on the bearing, and any bearing house catalog will list the third as part of the description... Essentially you would look up the specs for the stock bearing and then search for ones with the right ID and the same OD - thickness is less critical depending on how much space you have to work with....\

Also many forks (not all) have stems and forks that can be separated, and if so it would not be a terribly hard job to make a new stem that matches new forks and old stem sizes... (it is less likely that you'd find something that didn't need modifying)

If talking about the axle that the wheel spins on, the same thing applies about swapping bearings, but another option (which again requires some machining) is to make new spacers with a shoulder to fit the new bearing... (Note also that since there isn't much consistency in the thickness of the wheel hubs, you will probably need to be making new spacers regardless...)

ex-Gooserider

hi i was not happy to find these are welded type of forks or i would have had a go at modifying them and the stupidly small bearings make it more awkward they must be real crap make as theres zero id numbers or makers marks and not even a proper bearing in the bottom half just a bronze bush,i did message 6 of the sellers of the same univeral caster forks and ask the simple question of the dimensions of the actual shaft the bearings sit in to see if i can find bearings to adapt to the bigger forks but not 1 sent right spec only the exact same as on the ad which doesnt give what id have thought one of the most relevant criteria to a potential customer!
so i got to thinking is there such a thing as a low profile 3x4 tyre? the current tyre is 200x50 and looks tiny but the original tyres are the horrid solid grey marked as 2.60-2.80 SO I TRIED the 3_4 tyre but it fouls the top of the fork,im not great with modern tyre specs and it makes my brain hurt trying to work from imperial to metric! but if i could find same width tyre as the 3x4 but with less sidewall i reckon it would fit the forks and be better width anyone any ideas of tyre please chip in!

[Burgerman]

You want 8 or 9 inch tyres those are 280, 250 4.

I also already linked to some low profile smooth tyres in another thread or previous place here. At http://www.allterraintyres.com

https://allterraintyres.co.uk/index.php ... s_id=91756 these will fit, rim may be too narrow, use a 2.5 wide one.

9 x 3.50 4 may also fit, measure fork. https://allterraintyres.co.uk/index.php ... _1585_1586

[duke1]

You want 8 or 9 inch tyres those are 280, 250 4.

I also already linked to some low profile smooth tyres in another thread or previous place here. At http://www.allterraintyres.com

https://allterraintyres.co.uk/index.php ... s_id=91756 these will fit, rim may be too narrow, use a 2.5 wide one.

9 x 3.50 4 may also fit, measure fork. https://allterraintyres.co.uk/index.php ... _1585_1586

thanks bm would these wheels be right?
https://www.atbshop.co.uk/mountainboard ... oard-wheel
im getting the rear tyres this week so i can see what be best to do with the front then i dont relish the idea of making bigger forks fit if i dont have to atleast till after christmas as we are blessed with my daughter and 3 grandsons,very expensive!thanks again for helping and patience,i can be hard work.

[Burgerman]

If they are 2.5 to 2.75 wide they will. But as usual it does not include the data we need.

[duke1]

If they are 2.5 to 2.75 wide they will. But as usual it does not include the data we need.

i gave up trying to get details of the seller and just ordered the widest tyre that practically fits the horrid thing as it is im going to have to loose an inch or 2 on the back width or the bugger wont fit out the door,got 33 inches of arse!
there is a way i could move the motors more inboard but means cutting some holes in the thick metal mounts then i think the bulkier ends of the new motors will foul the chassis,but im guessing till tyres are on and i can get it on the ground and see how it sits at worse i shall do away entirely with the shocks and fit a turnbuckle type link in there place this would allow me to adjust the back enough to stop the motor fouling chassis,but would the ride be usable with just the low pressure turf tyres?
its def harder making a turd into a usable chair! thanks for any advice.peace

[Burgerman]

Its impossible to do anything useful with the wrong starting point. And its a waste of time trying to do any of this on the cheap. You will just end up with a mess. My opinion

[duke1]

hi bm you would be amazed what i have managed to build using mostly recycled/used/second hand i have been doing so quite well for 40 odd years,my car is a 22 year old peugeot 406 bought for £300 nearly 10 years ago in which time ive spent less than £1000 in total,most folk would have scrapped it but i know a good engine/gearbox etc when i hear it and now we have done nearly 70k and still going at 186000 miles,i have built many kit cars and motorcycles from scrap parts and even won 2nd place in a big bike custom show,but this horrid little turd has been a bigger challenge! honest its amazing what one can do if given no choice and no big budget,but yes in an ideal world ive have bought an f55 frame or similar but the £600 tina spent on the turd took atleast 8 months saving so we cannot afford simply to right it of as a loss.
much as id like to take it out and burn it!,never underestimate a determined hippy!
anyhow i managed another mod that took an inch of each side width so in theory it should fit the doors now

[Burgerman]

If you want fat tyres and bigger diameter too then thats quite possible, even with a 24 inch wide chair with group 24 batts.

download/file.php?id=4326&mode=view

But to do that PROPERLY so it lasts, and is reliable long term, you need to build to AT LEAST as good a quality as the mainstream manufacturer does, and ideally better. Using the best motors, best controllers, best batteries, best wiring and loom, better stainless sealed bearings, tougher tyres, wider rims etc. And a complete redesign of the frame and battery/motor layout. The one above has a total width of 24 inches, tubeless, and a 120A lithium battery. You cannot do that cheap, or easily. Takes much work, planning and best of components.

[rickystyx]

Now I would love to do that bM chair but my finances and my other half's tollerance wouldn't stretch to that, and I have to respect that she is the only one earning now. However I'm delighted to have two functional chairs now, which, with a bit more investment, may last me out.
The B400 has cost me a total of £600 and the F55 less than £100.
Not exactly fantastic but I'm delighted with the B400 which gets me where I want to go and when I get my battery pack sorted shoud get me further without too many issues and the f55 should get me around town happily.
I'd love to spend a grand or so on a wheelchair but it is never going to happen.
I will save up for more lithium batteries, keep buying little projects to do up and sell for a little profit to be able to progress my chairs but that is life and the difference my chairs have made to my life is huge and thanks to this website I've tried and managed to do things I wouldn't have dreamed of a year or so ago.

[Burgerman]

I'd love to spend a grand or so on a wheelchair but it is never going to happen.

If you are disabled, the equipment you need is essential. And a grand on a chair doesent even cover the batteries if lithum. It just about covers a couple of decent chargers. A set of wheels, tyres, for all 4 that are good quality, with stainless bearings, spacers and everything machined up with adapters with caster forks will be another grand. The frame on the green one was basically an F55 with about 500 quids worth of one off battery area and centre section to mount 700 pounds (30% + VAT off) worth of new reliable 4 pole motors to. To keep the whole chair narrow at 24 inches as hown, or 26.5 with the fat turf tyres, or 25.5 with the off road 145/70 - 6 tyres all this modification is needed. Add say a grand worth of power module and joystick, and another grand on seating powder coating, incidentals, like footplate etc.

Theres no way to do it cheaper, and if you were to buy say a magic mobility V6 or V4 rear drive chair instead (it wont be as good and will be wider) will cost you 12 grand. Every 3 to 5 years. If you are disabled, life isnt cheap. But if you NEED this equipment then you should get at least half of that money as help from the WCS. If not, you wont. But you should get 240 amonth mobility allowance too. Thats 2.6 grand a year and 8k in 3 years.

Or rather theres no cheaper way to do it if you value your freedom to live your life, go where you want/need and not spend all your time bodging old cheap junk together to try and keep things running. Worse you need at least 2 chairs to be able to use one while working on the other.

[rickystyx]

I'm not saying I wouldn't, I'm just saying I haven't got it so it isn't an option.

I don't have any benefits so have to survive off my tiny pension and what I can make from doing little crafts and things.

I sold some of my tools and things to get enough to buy my first chair.

Having repaired that I managed to sell it and a few bits and bobs to create enough funds for my b400 and sold some hobby stuff to buy some headway cells.

The F55 cost me all of £13.50 but I spent £60 on a new to me 100A controller and with a few hours of soldering I got it working too.

I'd be delighted to have enough for a really good chair but then again these two chairs do what I need and I'd really like two new knees instead and to be able to ride a bike again or god forbid walk down the road but that's not going to happen any time soon either - that's life and I just have to manage with what I have - if a chair dies at least I have another now and I could probably sell the dead one in bits enough to get an alternatve.

For me £800 isn't cheap - all these things are relative and sometimes we have to just make do with whatever we can manage - story of my life

[duke1]

If you want fat tyres and bigger diameter too then thats quite possible, even with a 24 inch wide chair with group 24 batts.

download/file.php?id=4326&mode=view

But to do that PROPERLY so it lasts, and is reliable long term, you need to build to AT LEAST as good a quality as the mainstream manufacturer does, and ideally better. Using the best motors, best controllers, best batteries, best wiring and loom, better stainless sealed bearings, tougher tyres, wider rims etc. And a complete redesign of the frame and battery/motor layout. The one above has a total width of 24 inches, tubeless, and a 120A lithium battery. You cannot do that cheap, or easily. Takes much work, planning and best of components.

hi it would be nice to have the budget to build as you do but i do not and it would take years for me to afford all new,besides this chair is not for her everyday use she has the gunter meier outback chair still that i rebuilt (mostly used parts) from 2015 its been used every single day for a good few miles and is perfect for her if needs be indoors.
so the turd will be mostly be only used within short distance of home and does not need to be perfect just safe and not be sinking in the mud or snow if we ever get snow again! if it lasts a year without dying a death id be happy enough and as said before it honestly would not matter what i did to this chair as she could not possibly hate it more than she did!peace

[Burgerman]

What happens if you go get a district nurse or doctor to get your misses assesed for a chair? And then insist its a personal budget. Thats how I pay. One call and you may start the ball rolling. I did the same for a 1600 quid alternating air matress. And am awaiting delivery.

[duke1]

What happens if you go get a district nurse or doctor to get your misses assesed for a chair? And then insist its a personal budget. Thats how I pay. One call and you may start the ball rolling. I did the same for a 1600 quid alternating air matress. And am awaiting delivery.

hi i have applied for an assessment and am awaiting reply from wcs im told they take upto 6 weeks and been 4 so far and i have done some homework and found out the pwb has never yet been given in our area though the ot did know about it she said it will not be given till end of the year when they are obliged to offer it.
but you need to jump through plenty of hoops first,and then when they say no i will get my mp on the case imo the only useful politician i have had dealings with and was great sorting out the stupid bedroom tax fiasco thats why i was asking folk here what nhs chair are best if she has to take one of theres.
i dont mind being a test case for sussex for a pwb and can be very determined and resourceful i have written a 4 page assessment myself that covers most of the bases and explained her "holistic needs" and the main use other than shopping is dog walking so the 4mph is out of the question also as we only have the old pug estate any chair needs to be able to climb the metal ramps and not get stuck etc so i shall just see what we can squeeze out of them!tbh i been more reluctant using wcs until she really needs it and i guess a bit proud and reluctant to spend more of the nhs budget on something so costly,silly really as i paid shitloads of tax over the years,peace