PL8 software won't install

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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby Burgerman » 17 Aug 2019, 20:11

Yes it was the keyboard. Broken track. I ordered a keyboard. Took 10 mins to fit. Couldnt be bothered with warranty. Bottom off, 5 screws and a tiny ribbon cable push fit/lever thing.

Windows did an update a few weeks ago that broke a lot of stuff. They're trying things in Windows 10 that Apple does.


Stop using the noddy bedroom versions for dummies, aimed at making money from all its apps, games, news feeds, etc etc. Avoid the apple cloning bullshit, and use LTSC. It ONLY does security updates twice a year, never updates to newer versions, and has all that metro crap missing by default, And what is there can be uninstalld. And no store, no crap browsers, nothing ever trying to sell you anything. No logging in to microsoft etc. Its not aimed at teenagers in a bedroom, but serious critical use. So all the shit missing by default. As such coniguring it as a REAL computer takes 10x less time. Updates only 6 monthly after they have been tested worldwide, and only for security. No version or added "features$$$" Unless you CHOOSE otherwise.

Works well enough for air traffic control, banks main servers, medical robot computers etc. Its designed stable for mission critical purposes.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby steves1977uk » 17 Aug 2019, 20:41

LTSC still gets monthly updates BM, but no feature updates for 10 years instead of every 6 months (now yearly).

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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby Burgerman » 17 Aug 2019, 20:44

Only serious security ones.
All the rest are delayed, (deffered) and tested on the masses first.
No feature or app updates, because non of that crap is even in it.

And mine only updates when I ask it, other than the above security updates. Far and few between.

LTSC stands for Long-Term Servicing Channel (formerly also referred to as Long Term Servicing Branch (LTSB)). This is a long-term support version of Windows 10 based on the Enterprise edition. The LTSC version lacks features like Cortana, Edge and the UWP apps (everything Microsoft likes to update in Windows 10).

Microsoft is committed to providing bug fixes and security patches for each LTSC version over a 10-year period. Instead of pushing out feature updates every 6 months (as with Windows 10 SAC), Microsoft releases a new Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC version every 2-3 years. Companies can install these new LTSC versions optionally as in-place upgrades on a machine
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby LROBBINS » 17 Aug 2019, 21:39

I don't run LTSC, but I do have group permissions set to only allow updates when they've been "approved" for enterprise distribution, and I use O&O ShutUp10 to make sure what I want killed stays killed (e.g. all the "phone home" invasions), including not allowing updates until I ask for them.

Then I make a Clonezilla image of my SSD, update only my PC and check as best I can that it doesn't cause problems with Rachi's software (and patch things as needed - like one update that caused shifting her vocabulary pages a few pixels on the screen when she speaks) then repeat the whole process on Rachi's machine. I don't think that LTSC would protect a 10,000 line Perfect Script program that controls WordPerfect from every little MS-induced screw up.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby wheelie junkie » 18 Aug 2019, 13:17

I'm not doing anything different, exactly what I do on my mac which runs beta software because Apple are working hard on improving Accessibility and compatibility. Even on public betas the OS is stable and the updates continue to add features. Accessibility is really improving, in the last few weeks I've got voice control, voice editing, mouse control in IOS and more, for someone who can't use a keyboard or mouse these make a huge difference and I want them now not struggle for another 6 months.

Just a few weeks ago I was struggling with the R Net and switch control, I'm now using an R Net bluetooth mouse module with all my Apple devices, it is not meant to work but Apple improved OSX and IOS and with a bit of work it does work. I can now have my ipad on my chair and work away from home.

That might not be important to others but for me it is, I can start a document at home, go out to an appointment and finish it whilst waiting on my ipad. Change can be good and I will embrace anything that makes my life easier and more productive. I don't have enough experience of Windows to know what it can deliver.

Device compatibility is improving and you can see every file in a connected IOS device, Apple are listening and improving. Under Jobs it would of been different, he'd of gone his own way. Hardware was different when he left first time, you could buy a Motorola Starmax which ran Mac OS back in the late 90's so there was hardly any difference since that time.

There are 100's of people with the same problems as me, Windows auto updates aren't reliable which is what I believe caused my problem. That is now switched off something I never had to do on the mac but it means that I manually have to check for security updates. Lesson learned, don't use Windows auto updates and insider programme even on the slow update programme.

Everyone has different needs and different uses, for me Apple beta software delivers, for others you might want a stripped out Windows there isn't a right or wrong. As long as you can use whatever OS you have and get what you want from it why change?
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby Burgerman » 18 Aug 2019, 13:28

Same reason you have to use windows on your mac... Because it DOES NOT do what you want it to.
As snaker said, windows users have no need of macs. But mac users need windows! :clap

That might not be important to others but for me it is, I can start a document at home, go out to an appointment and finish it whilst waiting on my ipad. Change can be good and I will embrace anything that makes my life easier and more productive. I don't have enough experience of Windows to know what it can deliver.

All of that, and then some! And for at least a decade. And I can always just use my home desktop PC directly as if I am there, from the van or pub too if I want. As for update issues, I have never had ANY! Along with the vast majority.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby steves1977uk » 18 Aug 2019, 14:59

wheelie junkie wrote:There are 100's of people with the same problems as me, Windows auto updates aren't reliable which is what I believe caused my problem. That is now switched off something I never had to do on the mac but it means that I manually have to check for security updates. Lesson learned, don't use Windows auto updates and insider programme even on the slow update programme.


Funny, then explain why my 10+ PC's have no issues with updates??? Poor hardware/prebuilt PC's are the problem. Run Windows on decent hardware and you'll never have any issues. Trust me, me and my Brother have built PC's for people with Windows 7/8.1/10 and never have any calls about problems with Windows.

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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby wheelie junkie » 18 Aug 2019, 15:03

For 3 apps that will eventually be on IOS changing everything isn't worth it, to me anyway. Plus windows isn't giving as much Accessibility improvements.

Any form of remote desktop software can access an online machine but Apple's continuity feature automatically saves part composed documents to the cloud, open the identical app on your tablet and the document opens, I don't know enough about Windows to know if it does that. It is a feature that I find very useful as I tend to use Macbook at home and ipad when out, more so now that I can use the joystick as a mouse.

After almost 30 years on Mac it'll always be difficult to swap especially when I don't need any support for the mac and Apple are improving Accessibility so much. I'll use Windows when I have to but would never swap, it'll just be a tool for a couple of jobs.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby wheelie junkie » 18 Aug 2019, 15:09

steves1977uk wrote:
wheelie junkie wrote:There are 100's of people with the same problems as me, Windows auto updates aren't reliable which is what I believe caused my problem. That is now switched off something I never had to do on the mac but it means that I manually have to check for security updates. Lesson learned, don't use Windows auto updates and insider programme even on the slow update programme.


Funny, then explain why my 10+ PC's have no issues with updates??? Poor hardware/prebuilt PC's are the problem. Run Windows on decent hardware and you'll never have any issues. Trust me, me and my Brother have built PC's for people with Windows 7/8.1/10 and never have any calls about problems with Windows.

Steve


Do a google for photos crashing on launch, stalled windows updates or search bar not working. I've trawled through 100's of pages trying to fix those problems. Possibly poor hardware but plenty of people are experiencing them.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby steves1977uk » 18 Aug 2019, 15:14

wheelie junkie wrote:For 3 apps that will eventually be on IOS changing everything isn't worth it, to me anyway. Plus windows isn't giving as much Accessibility improvements.


Yeah, the programming software have been on Windows for more than a decade, so where are the Mac versions??? Don't think you'll ever see them because it's not commonplace. But I'm please the Apple ecosystem works for you. :thumbup:

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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby wheelie junkie » 18 Aug 2019, 16:12

Apple had usable Accessibility like switch control, voiceover, SIRI, onscreen keyboard, dwell click and most USB devices like headmouse, Now Technologies gyro headset and Scatir blink switches worked. I've yet to find dwell click in Windows 10. They have now stepped it up, onscreen keyboard can be fully customised with their own editing app, dwell click panel can be customised, you can see what you type in the onscreen keyboard, not possible in Windows 10.MS are way behind with Accessibility for high level tetraplegics who can't use their hands but unless you have that problem you won't know. Voice control without needing Dragon is evolving on Mac OS and IOS, mouse support which they refused to add has now been added and the beta IOS works with both USB and bluetooth mice. Apple have been listening and responding, I've been on a beta test team for a while and it is making progress.

That could be because the new OS won't run 32 bit apps and the best onscreen keyboard app developer won't rewrite for 64 bit as it isn't viable and Nuance stopped Dragon development when they couldn't make a version that worked anywhere like as good as the PC version. If Apple didn't step in Accessibility would be a real problem and I would have had to move to PC.

They are also pushing to make it easier to port an app from IOS to Mac OS so it'll mean any accessibility apps can run on both, more choice and potential for developer's to make money as it is more viable.

The change of attitude is significant, maybe MS are doing the same and I don't see it. They are probably ahead of where Apple are with voice control but none of the voice apps work well if you have a strong accent. Dragon in Mac or PC doesn't like Geordie :)
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby Burgerman » 18 Aug 2019, 17:02

Change of attitude? Windows has always had that attitude.

I've yet to find dwell click in Windows 10. They have now stepped it up, onscreen keyboard can be fully customised with their own editing app, dwell click panel can be customised, you can see what you type in the onscreen keyboard, not possible in Windows 10.


I feel sure you are wrong because unlike apple theres thousands of obscure bits of software written by third parties, as well as microsoft. The point of windows is that unlike your apple stuff, anything is possible. Not sure what you mean by dwell. For e.g. But if you know how to work a computer you can use for e.g. sticky keys, or mouse buttons or change the performance of the keys so that they stay pressed longer in the registry. Not sure why anyone would want that though. EVERYTHING is adjustable. Or writable. I use a custom on screen keyboard sometimes, because I am laid on my bed so its easier. It uses MY layout and custom key arangement. Its built in. Theres likely dozens of free things that can do that too. A search for dwell click finds a few without any trouble. https://ccm.net/download/download-695-dwell-clicker

The reason some think windows is unreliable is because everything is so configurable and unlike the phone style system you prefer with the engine bay welded shut, windows is a supercharged drag race car with the engine visable and adjustable. So if you know what you are doing its highly configurable. And also if you dont its easily broken... So dont mess with stuff you dont understand.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby greybeard » 18 Aug 2019, 17:20

"So dont mess with stuff you dont understand."

Very surprised to see you of all people write that crap comment, BM.

Follow that advice and nobody would ever learn anything new about any damned thing!
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby Burgerman » 18 Aug 2019, 17:32

OK I do. But I also do lots of regular backups. So when I do something I dont YET understand, and break windows, or get some unintended consequence I can just reinstate the day before's cloned disk in 20 mins, and we are all back to normal!
Or I can do the whole thing on a vitrual disk. Or I can boot from 4 alternative operating systems, or USB strelec repair disk. Or whatever I need to do to fix my error...

So...

DONT mess with things that you dont understand, or at least dont understand ALL the consequencies of what you change. Unless you accept that windows may be screwed up! Or unless you do backups of the full C drive FIRST!!!

The thing you change may for E.G. cause things that you dont notice initially. Such as updates being affected like some complain of. (That can also be cause by a MAC indexing the files in the background and changing a few things or adding libraries or otherwise interfering with permissions, or ownership, or licencing stuff that you did not tell it to do, because it does loads of shit under its welded shut hood and then blame windows!).

So mess with all of it, thats how you learn! But dont be surprised when you break it!
Apple doesent allow this. Thats why they seem more reliable to those that dont really understand computers. But thats what also makes them useless to me.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby steves1977uk » 18 Aug 2019, 17:48

I think the issue with WJ's problems with Windows is that he can't use a normal keyboard and mouse, and has to rely on alternative input devices.

Which brand of headmouse do you have WJ? Maybe there's Windows software for it.

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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby wheelie junkie » 18 Aug 2019, 18:43

If you want to customise a Mac just learn Unix, it is just a GUI over a Unix core. I've never bothered or had need to.

To run Windows I use Parallels which does bring additional complications sharing home folders, clipboard, network etc inevitably there is potential for conflict but I have been using it for a while and the problems only seems to occur in 1903. So I need to reinstall on a clean partition. Unfortunately my backups get overwritten as the disk fills and a complete Windows partition takes up space plus frequency of backup means you can't go as far back. 2 backup drives attached just in case. If I had known there would be a problem on a simple DL I'd of reverted, instead I wasted time reading page after page of fixes and getting nowhere. When I get time I will reinstall and copy just data over. Most of it is stored in the Mac folder structure so I could lose Windows and not lose my R Net settings files.

There are a myriad of software programs available but the lack of dwell and inability to change onscreen keyboard demonstrate where Apple are changing and lead MS, they aren't the same company they were a few years ago but that message is hard to get across. I use a 3td party onscreen keyboard now but it won't work in next OS hence getting involved in the beta program, Apple should just buy the onscreen keyboard developer but won't. Ultimately it will be free in the OS instead of paying for a 3rd party app.

Steve, all of my hardware works Mac or PC, Headmouse is an Origin one, USB no drivers needed. I use a Scatir blink switch and also have a Now Technologies gyro headset which does need its own software/drivers. I could get an R Net interface to use that to steer chair but haven't bothered. TBH I don't get hardware conflicts even when running Windows at the same time, Parallels lets you assign a USB device to one OS or the other, 2 clicks and you swap it back. If there is a problem it is with Windows and file structure but Parallels creates its own partition specifically for Windows and I don't read of many problems with it. More likely the 1903 update didn't install correctly because of it running in Parallels.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby Burgerman » 18 Aug 2019, 20:04

Has it occured that you could just run native windows directly on your apple hardware and it will run way faster, wont screw up as it does running in a virtual machine, on top of parallels, on top of your macOS? And save 60 quid wasted on parallels at the same time?

Just make a dual boot menu, so it boots properly as a proper windows only machine or as a mac restricted web surfer machine?

That way you get a choice. And 60 quid cheaper, runs properly, and both systems can boot from their respective partitions. And you wont have all the issues that you mac users all seem to get if you configure your mac to leave the partition windows uses ALONE and not try to read/assess/or genearally f**k about with its low level ownership or other parameters. 2 SEPERATE systems.

How do you expect windows to work properly in a VM as those things always screw everything up. 2 EXTRA layers of crap! What does it do with all the hardware and drivers in a virtual machine? Just to start with... No wonder you see problems!!! banghead
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby steves1977uk » 18 Aug 2019, 20:36

This piece of software seems to have an autoclick function... https://cnt.lakefolks.com/

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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby wheelie junkie » 19 Aug 2019, 12:03

I don't want to be rebooting, Parallels works well for the tiny amount of time I need Windows,I'd spend more time rebooting than I do using the app. I've just installed another clean copy and the installation was perfect until I tried to update and the 1903 update failed. I did successfully install PL8 software prior to trying to update. It looks like 1903 is the problem either it doesn't like Parallels or it has update problems which from this https://www.wintips.org/fix-windows-10- ... o-install/ looks the most likely. How many different methods of fixing a problem? Reinstall was wasting time and I will have to waste even more.

Screenshot 2019-08-19 at 11.44.44.jpg
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby Burgerman » 19 Aug 2019, 12:26

>>>I don't want to be rebooting, Parallels works well for the tiny amount of time I need Windows,I'd spend more time rebooting than I do using the app.

Seriously? My dell laptop boots into windows and ready to use in 14 seconds! My desktop is bios screen 3.5 secs, and 7 secs to desktop...


I've just installed another clean copy and the installation was perfect until I tried to update and the 1903 update failed. I did successfully install PL8 software prior to trying to update. It looks like 1903 is the problem either it doesn't like Parallels or it has update problems

You mean as a virtual enviorement, running on top of your apple OS, windows fails to update properly :lol: Who would have thought it... :clap

I have tried many different VMs, and they do not work properly on a complex operating system. I am surprised it works at all. And you just wasted hours of your time doing the same stupid thing twice. Updates can (on that update) do things at a very low disk level, regarding files normally locked etc. And the VM is not adequate. You are wasting your energy trying to run a complex operating system, on top of a virtual computer (that isnt one and does not behave like a real hardware setup) on top of a terrible restricted interfering operating system thats likely locking files and hardware and drivers etc while its updating stuff.
For e.g. do you suppose your Apple OS allows windows low level disk access stuff, or read bios values for boot sectors and allow disk structure changes etc? Of course it wont. Some of windows requires bios chip hardware and various encryption or boot options.

which from this https://www.wintips.org/fix-windows-10- ... o-install/ looks the most likely. How many different methods of fixing a problem? Reinstall was wasting time and I will have to waste even more.

Theres billions of windows computers. All on different hardware. Some faulty, some with bad drivers from cheap hardware manufacturers, and incompatible defective or software for e.g, and even configuration errors, and so you will ALWAYS find 101 solutions that dont work. Just like theres thousands of idiots on the web talking crap about lithoium batteries. The reality is that its people like you posting! And its a minute percentage of users. You see just as many issues on apple forums with problems too. Even with their restricted locked down overpriced hardware and bonnet welded shut configuration capability.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby wheelie junkie » 19 Aug 2019, 12:47

I don't think that it is me, just checked what Windows version was installed and it is 1903,I posted the screen shot of the failed install and have done nothing since. Windows doesn't seem to know what it is doing. It did successfully install PL8 and drivers and search bar and photos now work, only Wizard and R Net to reinstall and it'll be sorted.

Screenshot 2019-08-19 at 12.38.41.jpg
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby Burgerman » 19 Aug 2019, 13:03

That does not even LOOK like windows. Its some bastardised mixed mess, running inside a virtualised computer. Its not wIndows!


Not only that, even if it was a real windows only setup, (and its not anything like that- I cant reproduce those oddball title bars, thats some apple/parallels thing) it still wont work properly in a imaginary vitrtual computer ANYWAY! It sort of works, about 90%. Its no wonder you are bewildered.

>>>Windows doesn't seem to know what it is doing.

I dont think thats the problem... :clap
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby steves1977uk » 19 Aug 2019, 13:14

Seems it's possible to run Mac OS in a VM on Windows... https://nerddrivel.com/2016/03/30/run-m ... ng-vmware/ :ugeek:

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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby Burgerman » 19 Aug 2019, 13:25

And with just as many problems. I have tried many VMs over the years. Every one seems ok initially. OK for a quick dabble now and again if you are testing software etc. But in no way work 100% the same as a proper native hardware instalation.

Hence the problems.

I use Vbox to run some old stuff that I needed years ago. Thats OK ish in windows. For certain things.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby wheelie junkie » 19 Aug 2019, 14:01

I'm not using apps that require vast amount of memory or processor, going back to the original problem it was an install problem, reinstalling an earlier version of windows fixed it. Trying to update Windows brought its ownproblems. You won't be able to reproduce a mac window, Parallels lets you run window or full screen see below. All the windows apps I use are working exactly as they should so it is definitely possible to use a VM provided you have a clean copy of windows, I'll probably not update if it continues to run smoothly, which it had for months before an update screwed it up.

Screenshot 2019-08-19 at 13.49.15.jpg
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby Burgerman » 19 Aug 2019, 14:19

I give up.

Can widows see and use all its own drivers, on all its own hardware including things like bitlocker and other hardware encryption stuff?

Or is it just thinking it can, inside a Virtual "box" thats really goT all of that under its "control"? I know the answer. You dont apear to do. Its not a windows install problem, its windows trying to install or update inside a virtual computer. Instead of a real computer. And low level stuff that comunicates with the bios, or disk hardware encryption or worse screws it up. That parallels effort is trying to make the operating system THINK its in charge of a computer. Theres literally thousands of things that it can fail to do on any newer version of windows. You are wasting your time and will get problems.

Dump the apple crap and that virtual machine, and windows will work properly.

Theres the usual 1001 compatibility issues and otherproblems with parallels here, as there always is wth any VM. https://forum.parallels.com/forums/gene ... stions.63/
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby wheelie junkie » 19 Aug 2019, 16:14

It doesn't matter as long as I can do what I need to, which I have been able to for months. I've got a system that works and don't need to update it nor do I need to add more apps and it works with the mac dwell and onscreen keyboard so no asking for help on a stand alone windows install.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby steves1977uk » 19 Aug 2019, 18:32

Found this piece of free software that has dwell options... https://www.polital.com/pnc/ Give this a try WJ. :thumbup:

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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby wheelie junkie » 20 Aug 2019, 10:56

Cheers Steve, if I ever install on boot camp instead of Parallels I'll give it a go, for now Parallels is doing what I want using mac dwell and onscreen keyboard. Opening R Net etc is just a couple of clicks.
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Re: PL8 software won't install

Postby Burgerman » 20 Aug 2019, 14:39

Except that its predictably screwed up your windows operating system. :fencing :roll:
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