WheelchairDriver

So I have these lights, obviously with a total of 8 cables coming out, two out of each light. which of these terminals do I connect the lightes to?


Any advice appreciated, Tremulous Tetra. :-)

The ones marked lights. Plus and minus dont matter.

Look at your image. Some are marked lights. (L+R lights, indicators) Some are numbered (channels - activators)

The rubber bungs need to be removed in your picture.

3 pins, one is a shared negative one is positive for lightsand the other is positive for indicators

Are they 12v or 24v lights?

If 12v I would..
- wire front lights in series - watch polarity if led
- wire rear lights in series - watch polarity if led
Then wire both sets in parallel so you end up with just 2 wires

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 ___+F-__+F-__
|             |
|___+R-__+R-__|
|             |__-
|________________+


Burgerman wrote:The ones marked lights. Plus and minus dont matter.

I think it does if they are LEDs.

Oh yes! Never thought of that! The modern world leaves me behind.

Be aware that you can choose 12V or 24V in programming depending if you have 12V or 24V lights and dep on if you connect them in parallel or series. You can choose and do either as long as you set the right voltage in programming.

Irving wrote:Are they 12v or 24v lights?

If 12v I would..
- wire front lights in series - watch polarity if led
- wire rear lights in series - watch polarity if led
Then wire both sets in parallel so you end up with just 2 wires

Code: Select all

 ___+F-__+F-__
|             |
|___+R-__+R-__|
|             |__-
|________________+


If you want to wire L and R separately then do it like this:

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 ___+F-__+R-__ left
|             |__-
|________________+
 
 ___+F-__+R-__ right
|             |__-
|________________+


Then set up for 24v.

Irving wrote:

Irving wrote:Are they 12v or 24v lights?

If 12v I would..
- wire front lights in series - watch polarity if led
- wire rear lights in series - watch polarity if led
Then wire both sets in parallel so you end up with just 2 wires

Code: Select all

 ___+F-__+F-__
|             |
|___+R-__+R-__|
|             |__-
|________________+


If you want to wire L and R separately then do it like this:

Code: Select all

 ___+F-__+R-__ left
|             |__-
|________________+
 
 ___+F-__+R-__ right
|             |__-
|________________+


Then set up for 24v.

there are 2 sets of 3 pins, 1 for left and 1 for right

rover220 wrote:

Irving wrote:

Irving wrote:Are they 12v or 24v lights?

If 12v I would..
- wire front lights in series - watch polarity if led
- wire rear lights in series - watch polarity if led
Then wire both sets in parallel so you end up with just 2 wires

Code: Select all

 ___+F-__+F-__
|             |
|___+R-__+R-__|
|             |__-
|________________+


If you want to wire L and R separately then do it like this:

Code: Select all

 ___+F-__+R-__ left
|             |__-
|________________+
 
 ___+F-__+R-__ right
|             |__-
|________________+


Then set up for 24v.

there are 2 sets of 3 pins, 1 for left and 1 for right

Yes, on each side you have common ground (-), lights (+), indicators (+)
But AFAIK funkykeyboard doesn't have indicators - looking at his pics - so he can wire all to one feed, or do L & R seperately.
If he does have indicators then wire as second pic, one set for lights and another set for indicators.

You better use both. Because they are quite current limited each side. So the big lamps on the front may be an issue. Not sure about their load. But they look big. 21 WATTS MAX per side.

http://marketing.sunrisemedical.com/Tec ... Manual.pdf
Wiring details start at page 41 (I think)

Before I got chance to talk to him about what had been said on here, my helper had already wired both front lights 27 wattage each, into one set of terminals in the actuator. 2 wires to the gnd and 2 wires to the light. They both worked. Combined 54 wattage. What should have happened;

They shouldn't work at all?
They will work but at some point do damage?

These different spotlights with a lower wattage, 10 W, say their voltage is 10-30. So if I wire them in series will they act as 12 V? Or 30 V? I'm confused.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283583330053

The rear LEDs are 12 V. But I'm not quite sure what the wattage is yet.

Anything wired in series doubles the voltage, so 12v + 12v = 24v for simplicity. Or if you had 4 sets of 12v LEDs wired in series, that'd be 48v. Simples!

Steve

funkykeyboard wrote:These different spotlights with a lower wattage, 10 W, say their voltage is 10-30. So if I wire them in series will they act as 12 V? Or 30 V? I'm confused.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283583330053

The rear LEDs are 12 V. But I'm not quite sure what the wattage is yet.

forget this question I've purchased these instead, which are more clearly labelled.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283583330053

steves1977uk wrote:Anything wired in series doubles the voltage, so 12v + 12v = 24v for simplicity. Or if you had 4 sets of 12v LEDs wired in series, that'd be 48v. Simples!

Steve

no mate, I was being stupid about the labelling on the spotlights which stated the voltage of the spotlight was 10-30V. Which I assume is a non-electrical person means they can be used on a system anywhere between 10 and 30 volts. But as I would be wiring them in series with the rear lights I wasn't sure whether this would recognise the lights as 24 V or somewhere between that and 42 volt's, as that would be the sum total of 30+12.

Irving wrote:If you want to wire L and R separately then do it like this:

Code: Select all

 ___+F-__+R-__ left
|             |__-
|________________+
 
 ___+F-__+R-__ right
|             |__-
|________________+


Then set up for 24v.

thanks for this, I'm going to do them this way. 12 V rear 12 V front programmed to 24 V.

funkykeyboard wrote:

funkykeyboard wrote:These different spotlights with a lower wattage, 10 W, say their voltage is 10-30. So if I wire them in series will they act as 12 V? Or 30 V? I'm confused.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283583330053

The rear LEDs are 12 V. But I'm not quite sure what the wattage is yet.

forget this question I've purchased these instead, which are more clearly labelled.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283583330053

Those look like the same item #... now whose confused?

BUT

Theres a problem with what i suggested... it only works if the front and rear have the same current draw.

LED lights are current driven so what they are implying for the front lights is that they'll have the same brightness when run on any system between 10 and 30v. Since they are intended for m/cycle its reasonable to assume their nominal designed operating volts is 12v... 10W @ 12v = 0.83A. (if you run them on 24V they'll probably still draw 0.83A but will run a little hotter internally).

Those rear LED strings look like the 3528SMD 15 LED in a 30cm strip. If not let me know. They are rated at 0.9W and will draw 0.08A - 1/10 the current of the front ones - and thats the current the front ones will see if wired in series..

As a result its likely the front LEDs won't come on, or will be very dim

There are 2 correct solutions to this.. the first for 24v. This would be my preference as you can never have too much light and those red LED strips are quite low output

Code: Select all

 _____+F-____
|            |   left
|__+R-__+R-__|___-
|               24v             
|________________+
 
 _____+F-____
|            |   right
|__+R-__+R-__|___-
|               24v
|________________+


Or for 12v

Code: Select all

 _____+F-____
|            |   left
|_____+R-____|___-
|               12v             
|________________+
 
 _____+F-____
|            |   right
|_____+R-____|___-
|               12v             
|________________+


Before I got chance to talk to him about what had been said on here, my helper had already wired both front lights 27 wattage each, into one set of terminals in the actuator. 2 wires to the gnd and 2 wires to the light. They both worked. Combined 54 wattage. What should have happened;

They shouldn't work at all?
They will work but at some point do damage the wheelchair (possibly the actuator?)?



What I'm asking is, if they work, can I use them without jeopardising the wheelchair?

You may burn out the mosfets, or it may cut out due to overheat/overcurrent, depending who designed the hardware and who wrote the software.

No one has mentioned, but very important-be careful to route and secure all the wiring, to prevent accidental damage-and possible fire.
Likely, the mosfets would burn out first, in case of a short, but I wouldn't depend on that happening.
I've seen dozens of chairs burned up due to poor wiring, and a few people get burned badly.
Safety above all else.

rlnguy wrote:No one has mentioned, but very important-be careful to route and secure all the wiring, to prevent accidental damage-and possible fire.
Likely, the mosfets would burn out first, in case of a short, but I wouldn't depend on that happening.
I've seen dozens of chairs burned up due to poor wiring, and a few people get burned badly.
Safety above all else.

thank you. Any advice appreciated, Tremulous Tetra. :-)

funkykeyboard wrote:
What I'm asking is, if they work, can I use them without jeopardising the wheelchair?

According to the manual...

Each lighting output is rated at 21W maximum. Use suitably rated wire to each bulb. The output is self-protecting against wiring and bulb faults and will shut-off if the maximum power rating is exceeded. Likewise, if the output becomes too hot it will shut-off to prevent permanent damage to itself.

I shouldn't panic. That figure of "21W" is a bit too precise; why not 20 or 25W? Esp as it just so happens a standard car tail-light is 21W. I'd be very surprised if it was that tight on spec. Also 21W on 24v = 0.875A, but on 12v it's 1.75A, so what current limit will be applied internally?

Worst case, the lights will go out, the controller will cool down, the lights will come back on... & repeat.

I'd definitely wire them separately to left & right though.

What I'm asking is, if they work, can I use them without jeopardising the wheelchair?

IF you mean that you have connected them to an ACTUATOR channel (2?) instead of a lighting channel then that may "work" while you hold a joystick as if you are doing tilt/recline etc... But then you cant drive!

And that WONT burn out or cut out because those channels can do 10 Amps. And are definitely safe current limited and programmable. But also useless for lights.

rlnguy wrote:No one has mentioned, but very important-be careful to route and secure all the wiring, to prevent accidental damage-and possible fire.
Likely, the mosfets would burn out first, in case of a short, but I wouldn't depend on that happening.
I've seen dozens of chairs burned up due to poor wiring, and a few people get burned badly.
Safety above all else.

on this topic. The safest way to connect wires together is to use these;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-4-Solder-Sleeve-Seal-Heat-Shrink-Electrical-Butt-Wire-Terminal-Connector-Kit/202714481930?hash=item2f32b9850a&var&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&enc=AQAEAAADEKvsXIZtBqdkfsZsMtzFbFsbX3WcW5fmB%2Fx7ZbaZTyexiyIdFDTxNXBzc89frR%2FVYi7EbMJLxodLb%2BK7GS4bzd6WmqkxjRlWg%2Fiq9YQfJ5Jl4wj%2F6K3%2B61rGs6yBYTGSQGnkUAuF9ErEzC6D%2BbGBbF5FXiQjPTsSb7c%2F%2BPfbPk%2FG%2BVU7CM84SCz6XtlsHd9hqnmVr4X4yJPMr4qWp%2BjpfeZTshiL50eQRhWAvnZG5FQqYsyN877ajwyKZC4dQ5oMXE48WxYdvimkvCdOb%2Bk3RR8FxwKRg96sfaBpGVKfU1CwB0mIBDy6fOz9R%2F%2BjnvYramUrLq0xulY1N3SY2GgwxTfnG3UjDBYtei%2BJSSp45yr9b6kDyjUZ1tKGU1Pkprh1ZFy9aOPKeaIHkcDzDl57ijpBTTdSllAzRv5ZLcW2CgkJspDDHxfuHycUI5ZdDeuCKWXZaH7jxT%2FVEC8xnIbY9GqmLRdojeLSdJNl9b0uQgfEmGX7ojO0GwUogvkrQvcJvVDcPU2%2FF5GJ6b3ZtzTFYV0SqPfNOifEs2O%2FTPgPMXhQPpYdm3BZMjTC52MAcygQ8rcHahZCMf6IQI%2FoCqudCYXAE8wB6eBZ5PbpYZqYcHxStWVtjc7yh%2BahGNDUMMATSAzzpOgCsnr5lSrLagOUOZYEJhb7mFm094NXZGRAiR7IBhYQKCJsh9yW%2Bmhibj0bM9Ajul%2Bi6YYizEqU3%2FTHWM1FKKAbY9I3wOWj4PIzfLs%2B5SSQAcGbOZbrq5A0FJnR2Ns9Sakg4jNsvXdm5pNbjlawc4xWR3bh63PRX7nD9j7d2p7oRntnqmGiS6h6U2%2BH8hQ%2BOQb%2FEbG7Xb3IVDbJhZSu5wYWqxIVAOdBf3rJgnGsb3cxTZ4AMCbkXFrm9a9Gp%2Fjz7MputRonZVBWWZi7ke%2FyU44jP583vJ9sKJt%2BhIEhHwh3MH5rGoJ3bAv%2Fv1uQBkVJmBo%2BAJNU0SoIV8AAegmhJNC%2FLSfcAQno2E2Kqb8xR5liL9WOeQ0IwihSOhUTM3jUuUhmlheZgHRwhilLbX0%3D&checksum=20271448193060fb38d831bb4ada968d5a2707022208
and shrink them together with one of these;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300W-Heat-Gun-Hot-Air-Nozzle-Tool-Embossing-Crafts-Shrink-Tubing-Drying-UK-J8E7M/303203168515?hash=item4698513103:g:Fa4AAOSwEyFdEth4
can you just use a soldering iron, which I already have, to shrink those solder sleeves?
Any advice appreciated, Tremulous Tetra. :-)

Dont get what you plan to use those for? You can solder right? Black heatshrink it afterwards.

Be wary of the solder in shrink tube sleeves - many of them will NOT WORK well w/ poly insulated wire - which is what most wire is, as the temperature needed to melt the solder is very close to the melting point of the insulation.... They are great if used with HIGH TEMPERATURE wire like Teflon or Silicone insulation, but no the stuff you find at the auto shop or similar....

Much better is as BM advises, solder by hand, and cover w/ shrink tube. If possible, get the 'glue-lined' shrink which has a layer of hot-melt glue inside the tube which melts to fill in gaps and seal the wire better than plain shrink....

If doing a bundle of wires, or if there is a lot of size change, I will often shave a chip off a hot-melt glue stick and stuff that into the shrink next to the wires to ensure that all the gaps get filled.

You can also get crimp on connectors w/ glue lined shrink covers, which are OK only IF you use a GOOD RATCHETING style crimper on them....

ex-Gooserider

Deleted

[YouTube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX0yGqamQ6o&feature=youtu.be[/YouTube]

I don't know why the above isn't working but here is the alternative link to the video if you want to watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX0yGqamQ6o&feature=youtu.be

Any advice appreciated, Tremulous Tetra. :-)

Integrating youtube videos is easy! Here's yours FK...


youtu.be/XX0yGqamQ6o

Steve