Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

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Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Dan » 09 Sep 2019, 11:00

Is it possible to fit tyres with a taller side wall to the Xplore? I would like to squeeze out a little extra speed out of it. I'm quite happy with the skinny tyres for road use.

350 x 8 Kingstyre Black Block Tyre.
https://www.mobilitypitstop.com/product ... block-tyre
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Burgerman » 09 Sep 2019, 11:37

Yes, but they will look a bit squeezed. Also you will likely run into the stall torque and cutting out thing more easily.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Dan » 09 Sep 2019, 11:47

Thanks. I have never had the chair cut out due to overheating but I was a little worried with the reduced torque. Most of the time the chair is either on the road or footpath, I have never found a ramp that it would not go up.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby duke1 » 09 Sep 2019, 13:00

Dan wrote:Is it possible to fit tyres with a taller side wall to the Xplore? I would like to squeeze out a little extra speed out of it. I'm quite happy with the skinny tyres for road use.

350 x 8 Kingstyre Black Block Tyre.
https://www.mobilitypitstop.com/product ... block-tyre

hi i would not touch them with a barge pole i fell for the same once,tread gone entirely in 2 months of grass/tarmac use i use these on same size rim as yours and as bm says they are a little pinched but give good grip and longevity and as my tina is light i run low tyre pressure about 15 psi and chair handles well and bumps are a little smoother than the "made for wheelchairs" type crap,good luck
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Dan » 09 Sep 2019, 13:27

I already bought them! Do you use a different tyre Duke? Did you mean to post a link to them?
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby duke1 » 09 Sep 2019, 13:36

Dan wrote:I already bought them! Do you use a different tyre Duke? Did you mean to post a link to them?

i did indeed idk where it went! try again
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Michelin-S83 ... 2218184164
if you can send them back i would. my tina was pleasantly surprised how much more grip these michelins have than the block pattern mobility ones,peace
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Burgerman » 09 Sep 2019, 13:45

Personally I would use the duro ones. They are tough construction, and a tread pattern better suited to powerchairs.

https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/bik ... /10069483/

As here:

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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Dan » 09 Sep 2019, 14:08

Nice legs!

And both those type of tyres will fit the stock rim of the Storm 4 Xplore OK?
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby stevelawiw » 09 Sep 2019, 14:23

I've got 10" scooter wheels on my 2nd gen GB chair but it's probably much lighter than the stock Invacare model. I've not had much problem with lack of torque but I've nothing to compare it with as I only use the one chair.
With the overheating, is there any room to install cooling fans? I used to get through controllers roughly yearly, but since I installed two cooling fans the last one lasted 2 1/2 years.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby hank » 09 Sep 2019, 15:20

stevelawiw wrote:I've got 10" scooter wheels on my 2nd gen GB chair but it's probably much lighter than the stock Invacare model. I've not had much problem with lack of torque but I've nothing to compare it with as I only use the one chair.
With the overheating, is there any room to install cooling fans? I used to get through controllers roughly yearly, but since I installed two cooling fans the last one lasted 2 1/2 years.


Any pics Steve of your cooling fans setup please ;)
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Burgerman » 09 Sep 2019, 15:44

Fans wont help.

I can take a stone cold brushless chair, drive it up to say a 2 inch curb till it touches it, and stop. Then try to drive towards it. Within 1 to 2 seconds, it will roll back power from a massive 190 battery amps, down to around 25. You go nowhere. All power is lost.

Likewise, from cold. I can go to any carpeted room, zero turn left by say 10 degrees. Then right. Then left. And by the time you have done this 5 or 6 times, same thing. No power. No movement. No use to anyone.

The power module still feels cold.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Burgerman » 09 Sep 2019, 15:56

Nice legs!

And both those type of tyres will fit the stock rim of the Storm 4 Xplore OK?


They go on. They will inflate. But instead of being around 15 inches diameter and 3.5 inches wide, they will look pinched inwards, and be "pointy" instead of fat. And will be 15.2 diameter and about 3.25 wide. Your rims ideally need to be around 1 inch wider. The rims are the correct width for tyres around 2.50 wide, and even the 3 inch wide 3.00 tyres are slightly pinched inwards already.

To properly fit the 3.50 tyres, you need to spave the rims. Not simple.

I fitted 120/70 and 110/80 tyres. The rim needed to be 3.5 inches wide for those tyres. So I widened it accordingly with spacers, and a strip of steel.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby stevelawiw » 09 Sep 2019, 17:29

I haven't got any pics of the fans at the mo, but I've installed two that sit just above the finning on the controller
20190909_170909[1].jpg

Just out of interest, on the inside those two blocks are solid aluminium and the Mosfets attach directly to them
20190909_164239.jpg

I can't argue with John, but I will say that on a long run my rudamental temperature sensor (that I installed on the surface of the controller) reading increases until I turn the fans on, then the temperature goes down. My sensor doesn't report an accurate reading of the temperature inside the controller, it's just indicative that the temp. is rising, and the fact that turning the fans on makes a difference if that makes sense?
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Burgerman » 09 Sep 2019, 17:47

I say "overheat" when I really mean a bunch of settings designed to save the controller, and mostly the battery and loom, as well as temperature.

What happens is complex and its fast. If I start a zero turn, with an EMPTY chair on carpet, the battery current spikes at 190A... If I do the same on a brushed chair, thats anywhere from 10 to 20A depending on turn acceleration settings. Thats TEN TIMES higher. But it is electronically reduced fast. Along with the torque.

Internally, the controller has a few settings that are designed to prevent this 190A or more, from melting to battery loom, and blowing the 100A fuse, and protecting the battery. These settings almost instantly drop the current down to a lower level, and down to say 10 Amps. At this point all pretense of torque has gone. Wait 10 secs, and try again, and it spikes to maybe 100A for .3 seconds, then gone. Keep doing it and it will not turn at all.

These settings are called:
temp rollback min
temp rollback max
Max ambient
I2T Max
I2T Coolbatt
Boost enable
boost disable


The ones in red are interelated and are to pt=rotect motors and wiring, inc battery loom and battery from this stupidly high current.

This low torque, in spite of having some TEN TIMES the battery current is the problem. Caused by trying to use direct drive without gear reduction. Its a fault by design.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Burgerman » 09 Sep 2019, 19:26

.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Burgerman » 09 Sep 2019, 19:31

Nice legs!


That pic is with a wide lens it distorts the pic.Makes her legs look huge. Shes only 5' 2" tall and about 7.5 stone hence the heels.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Dan » 09 Sep 2019, 21:02

Burgerman wrote:That pic is with a wide lens it distorts the pic.Makes her legs look huge. Shes only 5' 2" tall and about 7.5 stone hence the heels.

She looks really cute! I like skinny blondes unlike some who like well built black women :)

Anyway mobilitypitstop canceled my order because the tyres are 'out of stock' so I'm back to square one. I want to be able to get maybe an extra 2MPH out of the xplore but I can't have wider tyres because the back door on my house has not been widened. I'm suck for now at least with trying to keep the chair as skinny as possible.

BM, I know you had big problems with the chair but I'm using it outside on the road and city streets and for that it works great. Over all I get over 15+ miles for 35Ah and with the little add on easily gives another 10 miles.

So tyres with a higher side wall but still skinny. Is that possible?
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Burgerman » 10 Sep 2019, 00:56

Not that I can see. There are no tyres that will sensibly fit those wheels without being wider than 3.00. And no tyres are taller than they are wide.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby hank » 10 Sep 2019, 09:54

stevelawiw wrote:I haven't got any pics of the fans at the mo, but I've installed two that sit just above the finning on the controller
20190909_170909[1].jpg

Just out of interest, on the inside those two blocks are solid aluminium and the Mosfets attach directly to them
20190909_164239.jpg

I can't argue with John, but I will say that on a long run my rudamental temperature sensor (that I installed on the surface of the controller) reading increases until I turn the fans on, then the temperature goes down. My sensor doesn't report an accurate reading of the temperature inside the controller, it's just indicative that the temp. is rising, and the fact that turning the fans on makes a difference if that makes sense?


OK Thanks gives you a idea whats inside :thumbup:
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby hank » 17 Sep 2019, 21:09

Burgerman wrote:Fans wont help.

I can take a stone cold brushless chair, drive it up to say a 2 inch curb till it touches it, and stop. Then try to drive towards it. Within 1 to 2 seconds, it will roll back power from a massive 190 battery amps, down to around 25. You go nowhere. All power is lost.

Likewise, from cold. I can go to any carpeted room, zero turn left by say 10 degrees. Then right. Then left. And by the time you have done this 5 or 6 times, same thing. No power. No movement. No use to anyone.

The power module still feels cold.


John looking at Stevelawiw GB brushless module pics
would any fan or fans help cooling in any way to keep temps down.
Or drilling holes in the case help :thumbup: :thumbdown:
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Burgerman » 18 Sep 2019, 00:45

Temp isnt the problem. Its the result of a stupid design, but the power is cut off due to software trying to save the wiring loom, battery, fuse, not module temperature.

Fans wont help.

I can take a stone cold brushless chair, drive it up to say a 2 inch curb till it touches it, and stop. Then try to drive towards it. Within 1 to 2 seconds, it will roll back power from a massive 190 battery amps, down to around 25. You go nowhere. All power is lost.
NOT DUE TO HEAT!!!

Likewise, from cold. I can go to any carpeted room, zero turn left by say 10 degrees. Then right. Then left. And by the time you have done this 5 or 6 times, same thing. No power. No movement. No use to anyone.
Again NOT due to heat but to protection software. And again, the thing should NOT require almost 200A to turn an empty chair on the spot quickle to begin with. Its faulty by design.

The power module still feels cold.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby stevelawiw » 18 Sep 2019, 09:18

Hank is your controller overheating? If so, adding a fan or two, IMO would help in a situation where you are not overloading the system with a load it can't cope with (John's test), but just out on a long run, maybe going uphill for an extended period, or perhaps just being indoors back and forwards looking for something etc. In heavy, normal usage controllers get hot, extra cooling has got to help.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby hank » 18 Sep 2019, 09:40

I was just going on what Steve said about fans helping on his chair.
With the lifespan of Power modules since he fitted them that's all :o
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Burgerman » 18 Sep 2019, 10:06

Cooler temps always helps with any electronics with longevity. But the brushless issues are not related to that. It can help if you are getting the overheat warning. Otherwise the electronics rolls back power to protect itself.
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby hank » 18 Sep 2019, 10:12

I understand you :thumbup:
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby snaker » 19 Sep 2019, 03:07

The biggest problem when using taller tires is the caster SHAKE :fencing

I bought a pair of 3.50-8 tires, they look good and high quality but could not use them. You can visit me to collect them for free :mrgreen:
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Re: Invacare Xplore with taller tyres?

Postby Burgerman » 19 Sep 2019, 09:21

It doesent cause caster shake if you lower the rear of the chair to where it was to begin with.
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