Puma 40 Error code 4

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Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby terry2 » 10 Oct 2019, 11:20

So this morning I had the error code 4 come up.
The manual says it's the wiring on the right motor.

I can hear both motors click to release the break then the error code.

Iv'e now got a friend coming to take centre foot plate off so I can have a look.
Is there anything I should look for?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Irving » 10 Oct 2019, 11:23

terry2 wrote:So this morning I had the error code 4 come up.
The manual says it's the wiring on the right motor.

I can hear both motors click to release the break then the error code.

Iv'e now got a friend coming to take centre foot plate off so I can have a look.
Is there anything I should look for?

Thanks in advance.

Could be brushes or loose cable. What were you doing immediately before fault code appeared?
Puma 40, 75Ah LiFePO4 (pic is on tour @ Whistler, BC)
Puma 40 backup, 73Ah MK (for now)
Spectra Plus (weedy 40Ah MK)
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby terry2 » 10 Oct 2019, 11:30

Irving wrote:
terry2 wrote:So this morning I had the error code 4 come up.
The manual says it's the wiring on the right motor.

I can hear both motors click to release the break then the error code.

Iv'e now got a friend coming to take centre foot plate off so I can have a look.
Is there anything I should look for?

Thanks in advance.

Could be brushes or loose cable. What were you doing immediately before fault code appeared?



I was just coming home. Went over a bump and my chair would only turn left. Then the error came up.
So to me that means(facing the chair)it's my right motor?
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Irving » 10 Oct 2019, 11:38

terry2 wrote:
Irving wrote:
terry2 wrote:So this morning I had the error code 4 come up.
The manual says it's the wiring on the right motor.

I can hear both motors click to release the break then the error code.

Iv'e now got a friend coming to take centre foot plate off so I can have a look.
Is there anything I should look for?

Thanks in advance.

Could be brushes or loose cable. What were you doing immediately before fault code appeared?



I was just coming home. Went over a bump and my chair would only turn left. Then the error came up.
So to me that means(facing the chair)it's my right motor?

Yep, or lh motor sitting in chair. Prob cable come loose, it happened to me in Spectra once crossing the road!
Puma 40, 75Ah LiFePO4 (pic is on tour @ Whistler, BC)
Puma 40 backup, 73Ah MK (for now)
Spectra Plus (weedy 40Ah MK)
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby terry2 » 10 Oct 2019, 11:51

Yep, or lh motor sitting in chair. Prob cable come loose, it happened to me in Spectra once crossing the road!


Just tried the cables and still the same.
Will get some cleaner on the contacts later and try that.

So glad my new chair won't have any of this horse ****
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Burgerman » 10 Oct 2019, 12:14

Sounds like...
Connections.
-to brake, in the end cap.
-to microswitch in end cap/wherever it lives on that chair
-the switch or freewheel lever itself
-motor connections
-brushes

Now it continued to drive just one motor. Very odd, unless brush or main motor connection. Or power module...
Or gearbox or cush drive failure.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Irving » 10 Oct 2019, 13:50

terry2 wrote:
Yep, or lh motor sitting in chair. Prob cable come loose, it happened to me in Spectra once crossing the road!


Just tried the cables and still the same.
Will get some cleaner on the contacts later and try that.

Suspect brushes then... brake problems give a #5 or #6 error

terry2 wrote:So glad my new chair won't have any of this horse ****

Of course it will, failures can occur anytime, even on new kit.
Puma 40, 75Ah LiFePO4 (pic is on tour @ Whistler, BC)
Puma 40 backup, 73Ah MK (for now)
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Burgerman » 10 Oct 2019, 14:07

Everything fails. Chargers, chairs, cars, online banking (different thread) and so the only answer is to understand the world and how it works so you can fix it.Be it a device or a system. And having backups for *everything* from carers to powerchairs. You MUST understand how stuff works. And MUST be able to deal with failures.

Or you are in the same sorry situation that most normal people are. That means relying on others. The 'others' , the experts, may be even less capable than you are! And also not interested in your problems as it not them that suffers.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby rover220 » 10 Oct 2019, 17:00

done well if they are the motors i fitted for you, bet you have covered some miles!!
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby terry2 » 10 Oct 2019, 20:08

rover220 wrote:done well if they are the motors i fitted for you, bet you have covered some miles!!



Yes they have done loads of miles. But well looked after.

You know that short converter cable you fitted?
Well I think it's one of them.

If I change the small converter cable to the left motor(as I face it) I get a error 3.
So how much are them inc delivery?
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby rover220 » 10 Oct 2019, 20:53

terry2 wrote:
rover220 wrote:done well if they are the motors i fitted for you, bet you have covered some miles!!



Yes they have done loads of miles. But well looked after.

You know that short converter cable you fitted?
Well I think it's one of them.

If I change the small converter cable to the left motor(as I face it) I get a error 3.
So how much are them inc delivery?


ah, no idea to be honest as they come with the motors when ordered to convert from pgdt to dynamics.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby terry2 » 11 Oct 2019, 03:35

rover220 wrote:
terry2 wrote:
rover220 wrote:done well if they are the motors i fitted for you, bet you have covered some miles!!



Yes they have done loads of miles. But well looked after.

You know that short converter cable you fitted?
Well I think it's one of them.

If I change the small converter cable to the left motor(as I face it) I get a error 3.
So how much are them inc delivery?


ah, no idea to be honest as they come with the motors when ordered to convert from pgdt to dynamics.



Oh poop.

Is there a controller computer box that I can plug straight in to?
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Burgerman » 11 Oct 2019, 06:33

Yes, but you need the complete system.

Its way easier to find the bad connector and just fix it. Also free... Will be the usual problem. Instead of soldering, the connector will be crimped, gone high resistance and overheated. Then they get loose because they become soft and anealed, and oxydised because of the heat. Which makes it go ever more higher resistance, ever hotter, until no connection and you stop.

Pull it apart, find the burned bit, and fix it.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby terry2 » 11 Oct 2019, 07:41

Burgerman wrote:Yes, but you need the complete system.

Its way easier to find the bad connector and just fix it. Also free... Will be the usual problem. Instead of soldering, the connector will be crimped, gone high resistance and overheated. Then they get loose because they become soft and anealed, and oxydised because of the heat. Which makes it go ever more higher resistance, ever hotter, until no connection and you stop.

Pull it apart, find the burned bit, and fix it.


My last motors went plugged straight in with out a converter.

As for taking it apart. The round female pins are a pain.
There is most likely a way to get them out to someone who has done. But I can't figure it out.

I will have my new chair in 5 weeks. So I'm not fussed.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby rover220 » 11 Oct 2019, 08:09

the original ones didnt have converters as they had correct dx plugs on. handicare then decided they could carry half the stock (therefore value) of motors if they had them all made with pgdt plugs and then supplied converters for dx/shark based chairs.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby terry2 » 11 Oct 2019, 08:55

Fixed it :D

It was the computer part..I plugged in my old one which I thought was dead.

But Noooo...it's alive :lol:
Now to wait for my mate to put it back together.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Burgerman » 11 Oct 2019, 08:59

Its likely the brass connector that plugs onto the power module. You cleaned it a bit by unplugging and replugging.

If you try it back in the FAULTY module, that likely works as well.

To fix it you need to use some spray switch cleaner and nip the connectors with some pliers with care so that the blades are 'gripped' tightly when plugged in. Or it will fail all over again soon. a hundred Amps goes through those nasty blade connectors. They MUST be a tight fit. Or they heat up and oxydise, and then go soft. And heat up more, rinse and repeat.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby terry2 » 11 Oct 2019, 09:17

Burgerman wrote:Its likely the brass connector that plugs onto the power module. You cleaned it a bit by unplugging and replugging.

If you try it back in the FAULTY module, that likely works as well.

To fix it you need to use some spray switch cleaner and nip the connectors with some pliers with care so that the blades are 'gripped' tightly when plugged in. Or it will fail all over again soon. a hundred Amps goes through those nasty blade connectors. They MUST be a tight fit. Or they heat up and oxydise, and then go soft. And heat up more, rinse and repeat.



I remembered what you told me about the switch cleaner from another thread.
And I did it loads of times.

Later I will take this computer bit apart and give it better cooling like I did with the dead one which is now alive.
Which is using liquid metal on the chipset instead of the crap pads.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Burgerman » 11 Oct 2019, 09:33

You miss the point. The CONNECTORS get hot. Oxydise and make bad connections. The brass part gets oxydised and anealed. So loses the tension and grip. Then you get errors and stop. That very likely is your issue. You need to tighten the connector that plugs onto the power module. And be sure it makes a very firm contact. Once you do that, the original power module will likely work as well.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby terry2 » 18 Oct 2019, 11:06

Burgerman wrote:You miss the point. The CONNECTORS get hot. Oxydise and make bad connections. The brass part gets oxydised and anealed. So loses the tension and grip. Then you get errors and stop. That very likely is your issue. You need to tighten the connector that plugs onto the power module. And be sure it makes a very firm contact. Once you do that, the original power module will likely work as well.



Thanks BM.

I am going to use liquid metal in the very small round female plugs.
As for the spade connectors. Well they are a pain as I can't use liquid metal on them. But I may give it a go.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Burgerman » 19 Oct 2019, 09:11

I have no idea how that will help. Galium? Or even how you would do it.

If the connectors are all clean, tight, and soldered to the cables, and a very light petroleum jelly applied they dont and wont fail. Galium does not 'wet' the surface, will not improve the oxxdation or help with conductivity. Or stay where its put.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby terry2 » 19 Oct 2019, 09:22

Burgerman wrote:I have no idea how that will help. Galium? Or even how you would do it.

If the connectors are all clean, tight, and soldered to the cables, and a very light petroleum jelly applied they dont and wont fail. Galium does not 'wet' the surface, will not improve the oxxdation or help with conductivity. Or stay where its put.



It's called Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut Liquid Metal.
I don't know if it will work. But no harm in trying :)

I use it on my 9700K and my Titan Xp.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Burgerman » 19 Oct 2019, 10:00

Its a THERMAL solution. Not for contacts.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby steves1977uk » 19 Oct 2019, 11:26

terry2 wrote:It's called Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut Liquid Metal.
I don't know if it will work. But no harm in trying :)

I use it on my 9700K and my Titan Xp.


What???? You used a liquid metal thermal compound???? banghead NO! JUST NO!!!! If anything that stuff STAINS, meaning you'll never be able to remove it properly without a fight. I've used the Coollaboratory Liquid Pro Liquid Metal on a 3770k CPU and it has stained the lid and no matter how my Brother tries to clean it, it will not come off completely. :fencing

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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby steves1977uk » 19 Oct 2019, 13:57

Just found this video on Liquid Metal removal...


youtu.be/lxlNBElgssY

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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Burgerman » 19 Oct 2019, 14:04

It should be OK as long as nowhere near aluminium, or contacts. It alloys and mixes/etches aluminium and so disolves the surface. I would rather use something else myself for thermal transfer. Mut definitely not for use on contacts!
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby terry2 » 30 Oct 2019, 13:03

It's a sad that I will be getting rid of my Puma 40 8 mph chair.
I have no space for a spare chair so I don't need it.

I don't know if it's best to strip it for parts or just sell it as it is?

Any thoughts on the best way.

Thanks
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby foghornleghorn » 30 Oct 2019, 14:40

Stripping things can be a pain in the neck and take forever to sell everything.

How worn out does it look as a complete chair?
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby rover220 » 30 Oct 2019, 16:53

you are lucky to have a spare chair, to give it up would be ludicrous.
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Re: Puma 40 Error code 4

Postby Burgerman » 30 Oct 2019, 18:20

I would agree. Splitting it up and selling parts is mind numbing. Selling as a full chair will be hard too, and they go for peanuts or not at all. And when you need a spare, there never is one... Charge it, disconnect a battery wire. Check tyres, etc, so ready to go. Use as a coffee table or a standard lamp... :lol:
Or use as a normal chair!

Or convert to RC and drive it around the neibourhood. Put a laptop on the seat with skype, and mobile internet, so you can see where you are going and say hello to people.
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