Wheelchair back warmer

[stevelawiw]

I've had a pair of heated gloves which I use when it gets really cold as I suffer from 'white fingers' they are good but a bit of a pain as you have to have the wires plugged in to you and the power source, I've set mine up to use the wheelchair battery.
But I was thinking it would be nice to have something to warm my body so I had a look at motorcycle garments, there are quite a few available but all over £100 and then you have to find something that fits you, etc, and you have to plug it in!
Anyhow I came across this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/For-Motorcycle-ATV-Bike-Warmer-Winter-Carbon-Fiber-Seat-Heater-Kit-Heated-Pad/223143529789?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 which looked interesting,
for around £11 you get the pad and the wireing loom so I bought one to try.
I put mine lengthways on the back of the seat back, plugged it into my 24 - 12v inverter and took the dog out, It's really good you can feel it through 3 layers of clothing. I measured what it draws from my 26v pack with my clamp meter, .4a on half power and .8a on full.
No wireing to do exceot from connecting it up to 12v, you choose off/half/full power using a 3 way switch provided. The loom has a relay in it too.
Much easier than a heated garment, there's nothing special you have to wear, it's part of the chair.

[expresso]

nice - i am heading down this road also - i cant take the cold - i am considering heated socks and other heated cloths also - gloves i could use heated - only down side is there are too bulky then - i will order some heated socks from china and give those a try - gloves i may try from here on amazon in case i dont like them - i can return them at least

[stevelawiw]

Yes it all helps! Just a pain having to plug them all in before you go out.

[duke1]

hi my tina has one of these very cheap but been working fine for ages and i find if you can keep your core warm the rest of you stays warmer to just chop of the cigar lighter plug and connect to one 12v battery (not sure a 24v option exists) via a fused connection it has control switch and 3 settings number 2 is perfect,i see some do massage as well but maybe a bit distracting!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-HEATED-F ... SwT-lZpeqC
i have used it in heavy rain and not got a shock!

[expresso]

for me i need feet hands and legs area the most - i purchased a thick cover that covers your feet and both legs up to the waist - its not heated - i havnt tried it yet - its just a pain to have on - i hate being bulky dressed - i have one heated wind breaker jacket - but dosnt do much - i feel i need the heat closer to my body

heated undershirt and heated long johns etc , - i am slowly looking into this but the first experience with the jacket really didnt do much when outside - i liked the jacket either way - with or without the heat so i dont mind wearing it as just a jacket - but i dont want to spend too much on other items that i wont wear

[flagman1776]

In my case, it's not when I'm out but when I'm in! I use cotton towels as throws over back, seat, leg portions on my power lift sleep recliner in hot weather.
In winter, I use soft fleece blanket. Most are small lap sized / crib sized, folded to fit. Usually folded double. They seldom tell you what weight fabric they are... my favorites are a medium weight and as I said soft.

[stevelawiw]

connect to one 12v battery

Duke, if you mean one of the main wheelchair batteries it's best to use an inverter to supply 12v running from both batteries. It will cause an imbalance otherwise.

[Burgerman]

connect to one 12v battery

Great way to kill a set of lead batteries really fast!

[duke1]

connect to one 12v battery

Great way to kill a set of lead batteries really fast!

hi bm its been like it for 2 years and lead bricks are still working just fine also has a horn and a usb socket i reckon we got a extra good set of leoch bricks
i know you dont rate them but i have been very impressed for the price and longevity been on the chair since mid 2015 and still have very good range and lively enough for the task.
and def better than freezing your arse of!

[Burgerman]

A ruined battery works 'just fine' too. But when you measure it you find either increasedinternal resistance, redicesd Ah capacity, and or both. With possible drastically reduced service life.

A 24V battery consistes of 12 cells, each that has to be charged at the correct voltage to the 100% point and a little extra at a controlled overvoltage. Why? Because no matter how carefully each cell is made there are differences in resistance, capacity, and in self discharge rates.

So take one battery. Its 6 cells. 12V nominal. If its AGM it must be charged at 14.4 to 14.7V CV stage. And gel 14.1V. Until a very low current or a round 4 to 8 hours at CV voltage has passed.

The FULL voltage is around 13.25V when taken off charge. The slight over voltage, and extra time is a very carefully calculated and controlled amount. It exists to make all the already full cells sit at a level that does not damage them. And allows any low cell to catch up and also get to be full.
Now. A few tiny fractions of a volt too high cell voltage, over time and cycles causes grid corrosion (it falls to bits in time and drops to the bottom) and gassing that exceeds the batteries recombination capability.

Now. If the voltage is too LOW, by a few fractions of a volt, the battery or some of the cells that are a little low, never become fully charged to match their neibours. The result of this is that these low cells become sulfated over time. And this also destroys the cell capability to store power and retrieve it. Either over or under charging then causes the battery to become damaged.

When you connect 2 6cell batteries together, and charge them as a single 24V battery, that works fine too. You just double the volts from 14.1V to 28.2V for gel. And from 14.4/7 to 28.8/29.4V for AGM.

Now consider what happens when you take power from ONE battery. You are effectively charging one battery at too high voltage, and one at to low voltage. And you are overcharging the one that is higher. And undercharging the one that is lower. Damaging both significantly over time.

Remember that charging a battery at .7V too high voltage loses you some 60% of its service life. And that undercharging the other probably does around the same or worse.

So yes, it may seem to you that it 'works just fine' only because you have no means of measuring the damage.

[Burgerman]

READ THE above carefully.

hi bm its been like it for 2 years and lead bricks are still working just fine also has a horn and a usb socket i reckon we got a extra good set of leoch bricks
i know you dont rate them but i have been very impressed for the price and longevity been on the chair since mid 2015 and still have very good range and lively enough for the task

So, what do you use to measure them?
I use a PL8, and it can measure the Ah capability, to a very accurate degree and graph the results. How are you doing it?
And I KNOW that your batteries can only be fit for the skip even before testing them, after 2 years of crappy mobility charger use alone, never mind running stuff like a heater of a single battery.

THEY are crappy cheap batteries with around 50% higher impedance than the MK gels, and 350 cycles at 80% dod compared to 500+ from the MKs.
They have just ONE THIRD of the current capability, a third of the IR level, and around double the voltage drop under load of the Odyssey and so perform as badly as that sounds. >>>> (EDIT, if they are the same spec as the MARINE version they are pretty good, not the usual chinese garbage)

[expresso]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000321 ... b201603_55


you can find 24v blankets - this may be a good option - cut the end - can add your connectors - plug it in - cover my legs outside
finding a nice dark color is more of a problem

[Burgerman]

You could also run 12v ons on 24v. If they are thermostatic. Or use a pulse widh type voltage dropper. Or a 24/12 dc/dc inverter for less than the rice of coffee.

Plenty ways to do this without ruining your battery cheaply!

[expresso]

its cheap enough and easier if its 24V - nothing else to do - cut the end off - add your own and connect to the chair - even in the XLR plug -?

sit it on your legs - plug it in and thats it - i am tempted to try it - i cant find a solid dark color

[terry2]

Get one of these
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Maibtkey-Elect ... rts&sr=1-3

I may get one of these.
All my power banks are 5v 2.1A so no need to wire it up

[terry2]

Just bought these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143433619061

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Motorcycle-B ... 2749.l2649

[stevelawiw]

expresso if you get one of those 24v heated blankets use sparingly they are rated at 40w

[Burgerman]

I think they might be thermostatic like my gloves are. So 40w or 140, doesent matter. When warm, off. As per usual though, inadequate info to be able to decide anything.

[expresso]

Get one of these
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Maibtkey-Elect ... rts&sr=1-3

I may get one of these.
All my power banks are 5v 2.1A so no need to wire it up

looks good - i dont find these deals here - cost wise - and some you have to be careful - they dont heat the front - just the back on some of them -

[expresso]

expresso if you get one of those 24v heated blankets use sparingly they are rated at 40w

i believe it has a on off switch with lo med hi settings - so you can control it - if outside i want it hot - my legs feet hands are the coldest -

[duke1]

READ THE above carefully.

hi bm its been like it for 2 years and lead bricks are still working just fine also has a horn and a usb socket i reckon we got a extra good set of leoch bricks
i know you dont rate them but i have been very impressed for the price and longevity been on the chair since mid 2015 and still have very good range and lively enough for the task

So, what do you use to measure them?
I use a PL8, and it can measure the Ah capability, to a very accurate degree and graph the results. How are you doing it?
And I KNOW that your batteries can only be fit for the skip even before testing them, after 2 years of crappy mobility charger use alone, never mind running stuff like a heater of a single battery.

THEY are crappy junk batteries with around 50% higher impedance than the MK gels, and 350 cycles at 80% dod compared to 500+ from the MKs.
They have just ONE THIRD of the current capability, a third of the IR level, and around double the voltage drop under load of the Odyssey and so perform as badly as that sounds. >>>> (EDIT, if they are the same spec as the MARINE version they are pretty good, not the usual chinese gaebage)

i have a fluke multimeter calibrated recently its nothing near as fancy or modern as the pl8 or whatever but gives a good idea of whats still working or not,as does using it daily for several miles as said before tinas charger is a german made solid state transistor with 3 stage charging its big heavy and has worked just fine for many years,i guess one day the leochs will fail but tbh if you think about mks or sonnenschein they are expensive and do not give any longer guarantee than the leochs 12 months is 12 months dont matter the make it same guarantee.
the leochs use 100 new virgin lead and if weight is anything to go by then they must be great as they weigh tons! nearly 4 years service so far and range is still decent cant be that badly made.peace

[LROBBINS]

Leoch makes lots of different batteries. Which are you using?

[duke1]

Leoch makes lots of different batteries. Which are you using?

these are same type,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-x-LEOCH-AG ... 5401719e39

[Burgerman]

Cant find a spec for those linked. And they are different to the leoch batteries I removed from a freinds chair completely. Those were grey and green. And these now claim to be pure lead (99,99%) deep cycle. If the specs are true, at that price they are cheap.

The only PDF tech details I can find however, are these but are 90Ah marine AGM dual terminal. Same pure lead and 500 cycle claim though - possibly the same battery. The capacity difference may be down to the marine batteries tested to a lower voltage spec. And those specs are actually pretty good. If they are tha same as these, then not exactly odyssey quality but at least half decent. They are claiming that they are pure lead, etc. They claim 500 cycles at 80% if charged correctly. And at least they are made in HK not china.

https://www.leoch.us/images/LDC/LDC12-90-G24-DT.pdf
They seem to be similar.

Sold as Zeus in the US, and other names.
https://www.zeusbatteryproducts.com/pro ... 90-g24-dt/

The other thing thats interesting is that the crappy chargers they send us, are actually better suited to AGMs. So they will do less damage to these than they are doing to gel. So they will last longer with a mobility charger. As long as its 3 stage and you leave them on a long time. Plus I edited the above 2 posts to reflect that .PDF file, as an EDIT comment. Because I was wrong. After seeing so many junk lead batteries from china cheap I tarred them with the wrong brush. THOSE are not too bad at all if they are the same as the marine Tech PDF.

[Burgerman]

Unless they are these. Which are crap.
https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/media ... agm-85.pdf
They have good cycle life and can just about make enough current to pull the skin of a rice pudding. Which is what I thought were what we were talking about. Grey and blue.

I suspect that the black ones wont be able to touch the marine ones in the pdf above. But nobody has a spec sheet! So hard to know.

Or these,
AGM ADVENTURER - ABSORBED GLASS MATT - 400 CYCLE - Sealed. Supplied with Round Post Adapters, No Hold-downs
L0/POST
LAGM-80/85
LAGM-85 Adventurer AGM
400 cycles to 80%
76 Ah 20h rate/ 85 Ah 100h rate.
600 cranking amps (average or bad news depending on chair)
260mm x 170mm x 210mm
T6/POST

[shirley_hkg]

I had this deep cycle batt for EV @62 lbs a piece .

[Burgerman]

The ones I removed were different spec to whats written on those. And had grey tops not black.
If those in your pic are really 80 Ah /3h rate thats good.
But. What is interal resistance and cycle life. Why dont they have proper spec sheets like that marine one I found above.

Found this, a sell sheet, but yours are Gel, not AGM and are http://www.leoch.com/pdf/motive-power/e ... -EV-80.pdf

And way more expensive than the AGM ebay cheap ones...
E.G. https://batterystore.co.uk/leoch-2x-gel ... batteries/

Those are made in HK so maybe you can find a spec for the ones marked mobility?

Seems that they make rather a lot of different batteries. Some good, some bad, some cheap, some not. And with a variety of labels on the same batteries.

[expresso]

Done deal - - i just ordered an 24v heated blanket - along with a few heated pads - 8 pads - some 5 pad set up - you can place them anywhere and just connect your power bank - with switch to control heat -

this may be the best solution - i can place the pads on my legs under my pants - so its close to me should keep you warm -

also got a pair of heated inner soles for your feet - not sure how good it will be compared to heated socks - but i see

heated gloves i may just purchase here from amazon - cost is similar and i can return if i dont like them

i got them all from China - should have them first week of Dec. - not too bad - i have to see for myself how good all this really is -

if its that good - i can reorder more heating pads - instead of heated vest or jackets etc, - - this way i can place them anywhere i want and as much as i want -

if i can get feet - legs warm - then hands with the gloves - should be good - with the russian hat - and face mask - - blanket i may just add an XLR end - should be perfect - can have others use the blanket also - if the pads work for me - i wont need to use the blanket

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3295579 ... 2e0eubTWdO

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000183 ... 2e0eubTWdO

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000318 ... 2e0eubTWdO

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3295562 ... 4c4dr8fZml

given that it works - how bad can it be

[Burgerman]

Now my dog is gone, (no more 5 mile walks twice a day!) if its cold enough to need all that gear I would stay in and watch TV!

Or use my van with its lovely warm heater / climate control, and remote start. I press a button while indoors, and it runs and warms up before I ever leave the house. The only cold bit is driving from my front door to the already deployed ramp! Thats 20 feet, and takes seconds. I can cope with that naked!

So no longer need any warm gear. Today is cold, and its STOPPED RAINING!!! So I sent my carer to get a takaway.

[ex-Gooserider]

Yesterday evening we had a small amount of global warming - not enough to be a problem to dispose of, but we usually don't get any until December....

I won't waste time beating the don't connect to just one battery drum - it has been well covered already....

However I would repeat the warning that we hopefully all got in rehab, that heated garments, electric blankets, etc. are potentially hazardous for us, especially if we have less than normal temperature sensation.... There have been many instances of severe burns due to 'over-cooking' by heated gear - either misadjusted or failures in thermostats, people forgetting to hit off switches, or simply failure to recognize that one is being over heated.... (Hint - you should not wait for the BBQ aroma.... )

ex-Gooserider