Urgent battery swap help required

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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby optical10 » 29 Nov 2019, 20:16

Burgerman wrote:Bet you are wishing you never asked. This battery thing is like ever more complex, once down the rabbit hole.

Most users, not only wheelchairs, are happy in their ignorance with no clue about whats being destroyed! And the sheer volume of experts out there (inc manufacturers, forums, utube, etc) that DONT HAVE A DAMNED CLUE is totally astounding.


:lol: ain't that the truth
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby optical10 » 29 Nov 2019, 20:30

Okay thanks for the helping hand I have a feeling I'm going to need to need it. I'm not quite sure if I misunderstood you previously saying I could use just one 12v to run the PL8 but I actually have 2 x 12 V spare (see image).
Also chair is running the two 30ah MK GEL 12v which use the original removable caddy system that connects the two together and the kill switch on the lead whilst retaining the handles so no modelling was needed there.
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby optical10 » 29 Nov 2019, 21:26

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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby Burgerman » 29 Nov 2019, 21:33

You could. Thats a less reliable, and noisier supply with greater noise. And you will not be able to use it as a lead charger without also hooking up the PL8, because its not adjustable and isnt also a 3 stage charger.

And its bigger bulkier, etc.

Regarding your 2 old batteries. Yes, it will run from them. But even if they were new, and full capacity, they would need to be 50Ah to be able to charge a set of 30Ah batteries because of peukert and efficiency. At least. Then you have to recharge those! I dont see what you are achieving?
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby optical10 » 29 Nov 2019, 21:56

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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby Burgerman » 29 Nov 2019, 22:05

Theres hundreds.

But if you want something that GOOD and also a 3 stage charger, that is up to 3kw power output and fully adjustable, then theres only the one option. Everything else will work. Even a laptop power supply. It all depends what you want. And why.
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby optical10 » 29 Nov 2019, 22:16

Burgerman wrote:Theres hundreds.

But if you want something that GOOD and also a 3 stage charger, that is up to 3kw power output and fully adjustable, then theres only the one option. Everything else will work. Even a laptop power supply. It all depends what you want. And why.


My friend of course you're right but because of my starting this thread because of the urgent situation of my mothers funeral I just don't have the time or the mental state to start a project at the moment, I just needed new batteries which you kindly help me with that now will be ruined with the original charger so I'm throwing money at the PL8 (granted that will stand me in good stead for future projects) and a temporary or permanent backup charger that won't ruin these new batteries until or if I go for the Shirley option.
I never understand why this country is so ham-stringed that it can't manufacture electronics like this like it used to to compete with our Asian friends who are ever ready to sniff out an opportunity, somebody could make a killing and I would pay good money immediately to get this issue sorted without having to learn new DIY skills and 30+ days for delivery. banghead
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby Burgerman » 29 Nov 2019, 22:40

Then you have no choice. You will use the nasty mobility charger. As do most of the normal people in the world. The danger is that you will be back in a few months complaining that 'the batteries dont hold a charge' like all the rest!

But as I said a long while ago. Theres no simple way. Theres no easy way. It all boils down to money and knowledge. If you are only charging lead, then a PL8 is overkill. You just need a gel charger. And thats where it gets complicared. The simplest GOOD solution will take 3 month from shirley by slow boat. The other gel solutions are expensive and designed for marine use. So use what you have for now.

Temporary work around.
Use your old battery, along with the old charger, to keep them charged, while in use 24/7 and then charge FROM those slowly, so as to not exceed their capability + old charger, to charge your new ones with the PL8.

Thats never going to work great, as you wont be able to charge very fast (the old batteries will be depleted too fast) and its big heavy and unweildy.
For now! While a shirley supply/charger arrives.
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby Burgerman » 29 Nov 2019, 22:51

I never understand why this country is so ham-stringed that it can't manufacture electronics like this like it used to to compete with our Asian friends who are ever ready to sniff out an opportunity, somebody could make a killing and I would pay good money immediately to get this issue sorted without having to learn new DIY skills and 30+ days for delivery.


Thats easy.
Hong Kong (shirley) has always been a highly capitalist free trade low tax system.
China was so poor when it was run as a typical communist centrally controlled socialist economy that people died at 35 and literally ate still born babies and road kill for protein. Till the socialists pinched their noses 50 years ago and allowed rampant capitalism and ownership, free trade, self employment and low taxation in one small area of china - Shenzen. It made a fortune, and went from poverty stricken shit hole and mass starvation to a industrial powerhouse that it is now full of billionairs.

So the obvious answer to your question is that we have too many drags on business. We are way too socialist. It makes society poor. How can I start a business making better chargers when the gov tax everything I want to do to death and force things like minimum wages and masses of regulations onto me? I cant. So we have to rely on china and hong kong.
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby shirley_hkg » 30 Nov 2019, 03:26

optical10 wrote: I really want to go for a Shirley not just for power supply but as charger also but not all of us have those skills :lol: .

I just don't have the time or knowledge but in the meantime I will be use the PL8 while the slow boat from China arrives as I can always use it just as a power supply at that price if Shirley_hkg will do me the honors.

I take it comes configured just to use as a power supply?

:thumbup: thanks

shirley_hkg wrote:
1, In stock case @HKD $1,270
2, FItted with aluminium case @HKD $1,770
3, Fitted with aluminium case & Anderson SB50 @HKD $1,870

ALL are modified and shipping included . cheers



@optical 10 , choose your power supply listed above.
BTW , I can make you those wires / leads you need too.
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby optical10 » 30 Nov 2019, 13:01

shirley_hkg wrote:
optical10 wrote: I really want to go for a Shirley not just for power supply but as charger also but not all of us have those skills :lol: .

I just don't have the time or knowledge but in the meantime I will be use the PL8 while the slow boat from China arrives as I can always use it just as a power supply at that price if Shirley_hkg will do me the honors.

I take it comes configured just to use as a power supply?

:thumbup: thanks

shirley_hkg wrote:
1, In stock case @HKD $1,270
2, FItted with aluminium case @HKD $1,770
3, Fitted with aluminium case & Anderson SB50 @HKD $1,870

ALL are modified and shipping included . cheers



@optical 10 , choose your power supply listed above.
BTW , I can make you those wires / leads you need too.


Many thanks @shirley_hkg

1, In stock case @HKD $1,270 is that a faster delivery than the aluminium case and can you fit Anderson SB50, here is my current setup which also has the Anderson SB50?
days healthcare Anderson SB50 fittings.jpg

@Burgerman my PL8 hopefully arrives today and I know you said I could use my old charger and battery swapping back-and-forth but thinking about it my old batteries held a charge and then were into the red within 10 minutes of use so it's just not going to work so I was hoping that I could use the old charger as a power supply only having opened it up but of course I haven't no idea what I'm talking about how to do it but I was hoping the Anderson SB50 already fitted on my chair would make adding a Anderson connector from the PL8 and other leads from the old charger soldered on could make it happen?
If that is totally implausible that I think I need to buy that £46 "RC Power Supply (Genesis) Revolectrix power lab 8 ichargers.. 12v 100A 1200w" which I linked to earlier which will arrive by Wednesday if I order today as a temporary power supply for the PL8 until the Shirley arrives, what you think?
#2 Days Healthcare 4F24050.jpg
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby shirley_hkg » 30 Nov 2019, 13:21

optical10 wrote:If that is totally implausible that I think I need to buy that £46 "RC Power Supply (Genesis) Revolectrix power lab 8 ichargers.. 12v 100A 1200w" which I linked to earlier which will arrive by Wednesday if I order today as a temporary power supply for the PL8, what you think?



NEVER. It's way over priced.
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby Burgerman » 30 Nov 2019, 13:26

Your old charger cant be used as a supply as it wont start up without seeing a battery.
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby shirley_hkg » 02 Dec 2019, 03:01

optical10 wrote:
My friend of course you're right but because of my starting this thread because of the urgent situation of my mothers funeral I just don't have the time or the mental state to start a project at the moment, I just needed new batteries which you kindly help me with that now will be ruined with the original charger so I'm throwing money at the PL8 (granted that will stand me in good stead for future projects) and a temporary or permanent backup charger that won't ruin these new batteries until or if I go for the Shirley option. banghead


@optical_10.
Relax.
Incompetent charger won't kill your batteries instantly. Does take some time to get there.
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby ex-Gooserider » 03 Dec 2019, 00:47

In your situation, I would probably use the existing charger while waiting for a Shirley charger to arrive....

The other option which won't give a fast charge, but will probably be enough to give an overnight charge is to put the two OLD batteries in series to make a 24V pack, and plug the existing charger into that pack and use it to run the PL8 set for a nominal 24V input and current limited to the output of the existing charger....

That way the old batteries will act as a voltage supply to make the existing charger work, but not be discharged by the PL8....

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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby optical10 » 06 Dec 2019, 22:01

shirley_hkg wrote:
optical10 wrote:
My friend of course you're right but because of my starting this thread because of the urgent situation of my mothers funeral I just don't have the time or the mental state to start a project at the moment, I just needed new batteries which you kindly help me with that now will be ruined with the original charger so I'm throwing money at the PL8 (granted that will stand me in good stead for future projects) and a temporary or permanent backup charger that won't ruin these new batteries until or if I go for the Shirley option. banghead


@optical_10.
Relax.
Incompetent charger won't kill your batteries instantly. Does take some time to get there.


Thanks man
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby Burgerman » 06 Dec 2019, 22:05

Or fit an anderson connector, and charge via that at 24V. Then you are not limited to 12A. But 12A is quite a lot for small 30Ah batteries.
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby optical10 » 06 Dec 2019, 22:07

ex-Gooserider wrote:In your situation, I would probably use the existing charger while waiting for a Shirley charger to arrive....

The other option which won't give a fast charge, but will probably be enough to give an overnight charge is to put the two OLD batteries in series to make a 24V pack, and plug the existing charger into that pack and use it to run the PL8 set for a nominal 24V input and current limited to the output of the existing charger....

That way the old batteries will act as a voltage supply to make the existing charger work, but not be discharged by the PL8....

ex-Gooserider



Reassuring thanks, been mega busy for couple of days with funeral so been to busy to check on this original thread but have ordered the Shirley fast tracked airmail over two days so got it today Friday thanks to Shirley's help. Also ordered a £42 backup solution from eBay which robustly I didn't need having read your post but it will do as a backup in an emergency if everything goes pear-shaped and it came a day early yesterday.
All bases covered not taking a chance when it's your mum's funeral.

Once again many thanks everybody this forum is amazing! cheers
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Re: Urgent battery swap help required

Postby shirley_hkg » 07 Dec 2019, 06:31

shirley_hkg wrote:
@optical10: here is what I did to your ZXD

3-stage charger enabled
Charge Ah count enabled
Auto output on power up DISABLED
Values I put down at eprom

73-- 930.
74-- 15.
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