puma 40 how to fold seat for transport?

[duke1]

hi all can anyone please tell me how to get the seat back to fold down flat for transport? i have looked for a manual with details of the seat etc but cant find any details that help i know it is via joystick somehow but even if i remove all the seat back etc the electrics only fold seat so far and then stop i have a few pics of the type of seat as i cant figure out exactly the type or model of the sedeo seating and tina really want to try it round the shops but i cant get it in car unless i figure folding the seat down!cheers for any help

[duke1]

[Irving]

Unless you have the quick release, which wasn't fitted as standard with electric recline, you need a tool to lower the frame completely - the info is in the Sedeo seating user manual

[duke1]

Unless you have the quick release, which wasn't fitted as standard with electric recline, you need a tool to lower the frame completely - the info is in the Sedeo seating user manual

foldbackrest.PNG

thanks irving it seems a bit of a pig of a design just to get it in the car!i shall have a look tomorrow as she wants to try it in lidls sunday,i much prefer the gunter meier chair its so simple,i like simple.
my next trick is trying to straighten out the bent centre footplate another over complicated over engineered piece of design but i have to admit its a very comfy and fast chair i was expecting little torque and poor hill climbing as its 8mph but i guess both myself and tina being very light helps there.
see im hoping she likes the puma well enough to let me refurb the beloved gunter chair she loves so much and is sorely in need of motor and gearbox overhaul and has been for over a year and desperately needs a new coat of paint after many years as was built in pre 1985 but is best built chair ive ever seen still,cheers

[Burgerman]

it seems a bit of a pig of a design just to get it in the car!

Its not really intended as a lightweight portable chair for putting into a car. Its likely very few people will ever try and do that. Full sized rehab style chair are too heavy for that to be a sensible idea. So they likely didnt expect that as a regular requirement. Not sure but I would expect that to be around 370 to 410lb with batts.

[LROBBINS]

A folding backrest has another advantage for those of us who travel by air - it will fit in smaller craft, and even on larger ones (e.g. Airbus), if the cargo hatch is on the belly and curved it's hard to get a chair in unless the ramp people go and get the right vertical-lift hoist. Instead, the are more likely to put it on a baggage conveyor, tip it on its side, and drag it into the hold. We've had much less damage to Rachi's chair after I modified the backrest so it can fold and added well-labeled lifting handles.

[Burgerman]

The salsa one, and F55 ones (BM2/3) I use are easily removed. Thumb wheel, and on the reclining salsa a pin and R clip that needs to be pulled out of the actuator at the bottom. Obviously intended for flight etc. But not really designed for daily use in say a car.

Also not too sure I would feel safe with a 185kg load in the rear of a car, unless properly secured. It will continue at 70mph when you hit something... Also a lot of weight in the rear may well cause directional stability issues if you try cornering or swerving to miss something at speed. I think if you must load a heavy reab chair it should be in a van, tied down properly in the middle. Not the tailgate of an estate car. Or we have a huge mass located at the rear end, thats the classic unstable airplane setup... That said, people do it. As long as you drive like my gran its likely OK. And dont hit anything.

[terry2]

Unless you have the quick release, which wasn't fitted as standard with electric recline, you need a tool to lower the frame completely - the info is in the Sedeo seating user manual

foldbackrest.PNG

thanks irving it seems a bit of a pig of a design just to get it in the car!i shall have a look tomorrow as she wants to try it in lidls sunday,i much prefer the gunter meier chair its so simple,i like simple.
my next trick is trying to straighten out the bent centre footplate another over complicated over engineered piece of design but i have to admit its a very comfy and fast chair i was expecting little torque and poor hill climbing as its 8mph but i guess both myself and tina being very light helps there.
see im hoping she likes the puma well enough to let me refurb the beloved gunter chair she loves so much and is sorely in need of motor and gearbox overhaul and has been for over a year and desperately needs a new coat of paint after many years as was built in pre 1985 but is best built chair ive ever seen still,cheers

It's not made to go in the back of cars.
Well you will need to strap it down using the 4 points.

If not and you brake hard. You will be crushed by it.

[Irving]

The salsa one, and F55 ones (BM2/3) I use are easily removed. Thumb wheel, and on the reclining salsa a pin and R clip that needs to be pulled out of the actuator at the bottom. Obviously intended for flight etc. But not really designed for daily use in say a car.

The Sedeo backrest did have an optional quick release mechanism, as an option on manual recline versions. It could be retrofitted to electric recline as a special. I'm sure a solution could be fabricated, see parts 35-37 on diagram (instead of 32-34), basically a wing-head on the screw! While the Puma user & Sedeo seating manuals do talk about breakdown for transport this is clearly not meant as a daily activity!

Also not too sure I would feel safe with a 185kg load in the rear of a car, unless properly secured. It will continue at 70mph when you hit something... Also a lot of weight in the rear may well cause directional stability issues if you try cornering or swerving to miss something at speed. I think if you must load a heavy reab chair it should be in a van, tied down properly in the middle. Not the tailgate of an estate car. Or we have a huge mass located at the rear end, thats the classic unstable airplane setup... That said, people do it. As long as you drive like my gran its likely OK. And dont hit anything.

When I collected my Pumas (one at a time) we loaded them behind me in my upfront Kia, so they were essentially centrally located. Even so my PA commented on how much the car wallowed even after increasing tyre pressures as per full 7-person occupancy recommendations! As you note, a fully-specced Puma with Gp24 SLA installed weighs in at 180kg, but that's by no means the heaviest around!

[duke1]

hi all well i found the release bracket thing and did manage to fold the seat no problem but the anti tips just lift the drive wheels of the deck and so it cannot go up the ramp i shall fit a quick release to enable swift removal of the wheels from the anti tips which should allow use of the ramps
,the ramps are very sturdy steel suitable for even heavy quad bikes and the like so no fear of the ramp collapsing,the floor of the car has inch thick marine ply bolted securely to the floor and 2 tie down points which are not needed with tinas gunter chair as it is far smaller and lighter and the anti tips lock to a diy bracket attached to the rear seat back of the car so if i ever manage to get the puma up the damn ramps it can be safely secured.
though i get its meant more as transport than to be transported itself but if its to be any use it must climb the ramp under its own steam safely so as usual i shall have to modify whats needed to make it work.
my car runs out of mot on the 25th feb and may or may not pass on emissions if not i shall be looking for wav or similar i have seen a few smallish vans with side loading doors and a chair lift as spares or repairs (the only way i can afford vehicles) but tbh every year for last 10 years i have thought the car would fail and it keeps passing funny as i have never liked the car much and was only bought for £300 and have spent around £1000 in those 10 years so running costs are half the AA average for a car at 7p a mile average is 14p a mile and means the money i have saved by self maintaining the car goes to the chairs for the expensive bits we couldnt otherwise afford so i hope it passes again!
im sure she will like the puma once ive ironed out the faults and broken bits discovered the jsm mount is broken and needs welding and that coupled with odd sizes caster tyres and a sticking caster bearing are route cause of the dodgy steering and tendency to go right on its own i have done the tyres and bearings and steers way better and should be fine once welding is done,cheers all for the help and advice

[terry2]

hi all well i found the release bracket thing and did manage to fold the seat no problem but the anti tips just lift the drive wheels of the deck and so it cannot go up the ramp i shall fit a quick release to enable swift removal of the wheels from the anti tips which should allow use of the ramps
,the ramps are very sturdy steel suitable for even heavy quad bikes and the like so no fear of the ramp collapsing,the floor of the car has inch thick marine ply bolted securely to the floor and 2 tie down points which are not needed with tinas gunter chair as it is far smaller and lighter and the anti tips lock to a diy bracket attached to the rear seat back of the car so if i ever manage to get the puma up the damn ramps it can be safely secured.
though i get its meant more as transport than to be transported itself but if its to be any use it must climb the ramp under its own steam safely so as usual i shall have to modify whats needed to make it work.
my car runs out of mot on the 25th feb and may or may not pass on emissions if not i shall be looking for wav or similar i have seen a few smallish vans with side loading doors and a chair lift as spares or repairs (the only way i can afford vehicles) but tbh every year for last 10 years i have thought the car would fail and it keeps passing funny as i have never liked the car much and was only bought for £300 and have spent around £1000 in those 10 years so running costs are half the AA average for a car at 7p a mile average is 14p a mile and means the money i have saved by self maintaining the car goes to the chairs for the expensive bits we couldnt otherwise afford so i hope it passes again!
im sure she will like the puma once ive ironed out the faults and broken bits discovered the jsm mount is broken and needs welding and that coupled with odd sizes caster tyres and a sticking caster bearing are route cause of the dodgy steering and tendency to go right on its own i have done the tyres and bearings and steers way better and should be fine once welding is done,cheers all for the help and advice

What's a JSM mount?

[duke1]

hi all well i found the release bracket thing and did manage to fold the seat no problem but the anti tips just lift the drive wheels of the deck and so it cannot go up the ramp i shall fit a quick release to enable swift removal of the wheels from the anti tips which should allow use of the ramps
,the ramps are very sturdy steel suitable for even heavy quad bikes and the like so no fear of the ramp collapsing,the floor of the car has inch thick marine ply bolted securely to the floor and 2 tie down points which are not needed with tinas gunter chair as it is far smaller and lighter and the anti tips lock to a diy bracket attached to the rear seat back of the car so if i ever manage to get the puma up the damn ramps it can be safely secured.
though i get its meant more as transport than to be transported itself but if its to be any use it must climb the ramp under its own steam safely so as usual i shall have to modify whats needed to make it work.
my car runs out of mot on the 25th feb and may or may not pass on emissions if not i shall be looking for wav or similar i have seen a few smallish vans with side loading doors and a chair lift as spares or repairs (the only way i can afford vehicles) but tbh every year for last 10 years i have thought the car would fail and it keeps passing funny as i have never liked the car much and was only bought for £300 and have spent around £1000 in those 10 years so running costs are half the AA average for a car at 7p a mile average is 14p a mile and means the money i have saved by self maintaining the car goes to the chairs for the expensive bits we couldnt otherwise afford so i hope it passes again!
im sure she will like the puma once ive ironed out the faults and broken bits discovered the jsm mount is broken and needs welding and that coupled with odd sizes caster tyres and a sticking caster bearing are route cause of the dodgy steering and tendency to go right on its own i have done the tyres and bearings and steers way better and should be fine once welding is done,cheers all for the help and advice

What's a JSM mount?

hi terry its meant to say js as in joystick to many mmmss!its cracked around the weld line that secures joystick to the mounting so rather wobbly and jumps up and down on bumps but our local garage will weld it for a few tokens i didnt notice it till we took it to the wcs meeting or would have fixed it first.
shes in no condition to use it atm in great pain and most unhappy its horrid being feck all i can do about it,cheers

[duke1]

hi all i have been going through what works and what doesnt on the puma40 i bought for tina and have a problem i think maybe one of you can enlighten me please,problem being twofold one is im uncertain exactly what functions the particular chair/seat are meant to have,it has lift that works perfect,it has backrest electric recline and that works fine also shows tilt on the dx2 joystick screen and is illuminated which i guess means it should be active? but when you try to operate tilt it just clicks in the modules behind the seat audibly but the seat stays still?
theres pics further back of the seat which is why i posted here rather than start a new thread.
so if anyone can tell me if its even meant to do tilt as well as rise/recline and if so what to check next in order to fix it? also is there a diagnostic system on the wizard prog that does seating as i havent seen it if there is?
its just that with me being insistant on wcs either giving us pwb or the right chair for tina(having sent back one totally and utterly wrong for her) they seem to be making her wait as punishment,but her condition spinal stenosis and multiple arthritic joint along with collapsing spinal column where the screws go into bone in her back are crumbling and top and bottom are curving so she would benefit from the tilt working so any help would be great,cheers

[woodygb]

I assume that you have various actuators ... if so, any chance of swapping over the plugs between a working one and the one that isn't?

[Burgerman]

Wrong setting for direction, jammed, limit switch, motor failed or bad connection, or programmed too low Amps, or something. You really need to est by substitution, use a multimeter, check out programming and inhibit settings. And basically problem solve as you go. It will be something simple.

[Irving]

Default programming for a puma is tilt and was standard option with lift. The click is the direction control relay in the ISM so suggests wiring or actuator fault. As suggested, try swapping with recline actuator to see if fault moves.

[duke1]

I assume that you have various actuators ... if so, any chance of swapping over the plugs between a working one and the one that isn't?

hi woody theres 2 module s one says act4 one act 2 they look similar but not identical i think the diagnostics has picked something up but no idea what it means,any clues heres pic of relevant section,i think!

[rover220]

tilt was an optional extra on top of lift. theres a setting for dx2 that turns icons off for actuators that arent fitted or faulty. they come from the factory all programmed to have all the actuators so its plug and play to retro fit.

post a pic of your seat lift unit with it lifted

[woodygb]

I assume that you have various actuators ... if so, any chance of swapping over the plugs between a working one and the one that isn't?

hi woody theres 2 module s one says act4 one act 2 they look similar but not identical i think the diagnostics has picked something up but no idea what it means,any clues heres pic of relevant section,i think!

puma diag 005.JPG

Not a clue .... how's about trying to do what I suggested?

[duke1]

tilt was an optional extra on top of lift. theres a setting for dx2 that turns icons off for actuators that arent fitted or faulty. they come from the factory all programmed to have all the actuators so its plug and play to retro fit.

post a pic of your seat lift unit with it lifted

hi heres a pic

[duke1]

I assume that you have various actuators ... if so, any chance of swapping over the plugs between a working one and the one that isn't?

hi woody theres 2 module s one says act4 one act 2 they look similar but not identical i think the diagnostics has picked something up but no idea what it means,any clues heres pic of relevant section,i think!

puma diag 005.JPG

Not a clue .... how's about trying to do what I suggested?

i was not sure it has the capability to tilt and the 2 modules being different scared me of experimenting till i find out for sure,i do not think looking at it that is capable of tilting,cheers

[rickystyx]

hi all well i found the release bracket thing and did manage to fold the seat no problem but the anti tips just lift the drive wheels of the deck and so it cannot go up the ramp i shall fit a quick release to enable swift removal of the wheels from the anti tips which should allow use of the ramps

How long are your ramps?
I had this problem until I got some new ramps - 9ft and aluminium - makes life much easier and rated at 365Kg/ramp

[woodygb]

Looks like you only have the lift actuator.

Wait for Rover to confirm.

[rover220]

Need a pic from pointing up at the bottom of the seat as that's where the tilt actuator will be if it has one.

[woodygb]

Need a pic from pointing up at the bottom of the seat as that's where the tilt actuator will be if it has one.

While your here Rver ..is there any problem with swapping the actuator plugs over to see if the problem swaps ?

[rover220]

Need a pic from pointing up at the bottom of the seat as that's where the tilt actuator will be if it has one.

While your here Rver ..is there any problem with swapping the actuator plugs over to see if the problem swaps ?

Not really no

[duke1]

Need a pic from pointing up at the bottom of the seat as that's where the tilt actuator will be if it has one.

hi rover i think i see where the tilt actuator would bolt on theres def nothing there,is it a hard job to instal after the fact ? heres pic of underside of seat thanks for looking,peace

[rover220]

yes no tilt there, easy to retro fit, will need actuator and limit switches if you want it as the factory would do it

[Burgerman]

Thats a bit like lifting the lid on your car and finding that the reason it only goes click is that someones nicked the engine.

[duke1]

yes no tilt there, easy to retro fit, will need actuator and limit switches if you want it as the factory would do it

hi rover thanks for reply i think when this pandemic is over i may have to fit it as wcs delivered a chair for tina for 2nd time after sending first back as totally unsuitable for her they sent one without recline so again no good it seems impossible for them to get a simple thing right! any idea where one might purchase the actuator and wiring? she needs tilt and recline working to be comfortable,cheers