RC Wheelchair options?

[Martin King]

Hi I'm looking at helping someone RC his custom off road wheelchair, part of the reason is so he can drive it back to a safe space from his boat then drive it back to the boat when he returns, he's using a P&G drive. From what I gather the two main options are Can bus control or fake the joystick signals. He'd need to retain the existing joystick but also be able to lock that out for security reasons while it can still be driven by RC. I'll be building a custom high reliability waterproof floating long range radio controller not using commercial off the shelf RC kit. I'm thinking R-Net Can bus control is probably the way to go but I'm having trouble piecing together where that's at with regards to protocol information? I'd also be interested in advice on how to buy P&G programming units (or are there's any "hack" options for that?) although that's less important.

Cheers.
Martin.

[Martin King]

And just an example of the non-wheelchair type stuff I do :-


youtu.be/2ID5hffqj40


youtu.be/RKFLXElYYeg

[martin007]

Where are you from?


United States?

[Martin King]

Where are you from?


United States?

UK near London.

[martin007]

The task you plan is great.
You are self-taught or a professional?

[Martin King]

The task you plan is great.
You are self-taught or a professional?

A self taught professional, the two things are not mutually exclusive.

[martin007]

The task you plan is great.
You are self-taught or a professional?

A self taught professional, the two things are not mutually exclusive.

OK.

[woodygb]

Hi I'm looking at helping someone RC his custom off road wheelchair, part of the reason is so he can drive it back to a safe space from his boat then drive it back to the boat when he returns, he's using a P&G drive. From what I gather the two main options are Can bus control or fake the joystick signals. He'd need to retain the existing joystick but also be able to lock that out for security reasons while it can still be driven by RC. I'll be building a custom high reliability waterproof floating long range radio controller not using commercial off the shelf RC kit. I'm thinking R-Net Can bus control is probably the way to go but I'm having trouble piecing together where that's at with regards to protocol information? I'd also be interested in advice on how to buy P&G programming units (or are there's any "hack" options for that?) although that's less important.

Cheers.
Martin.

I can provide Android BlueTooth or R/C


youtu.be/QLoXDDKCfC0

My remote controlled Robot Wars creation...it is now nearly 20 years old.


youtu.be/U9K_mMuOhmM

[rickystyx]

Woody that is a superb bit of kit - can you Pm me the cost of it?
I suppose the joystick can still operate as normal as well so do you have to have different profiles specifically for the remote or can you select the profile from the phone?

[woodygb]

Woody that is a superb bit of kit - can you Pm me the cost of it?
I suppose the joystick can still operate as normal as well so do you have to have different profiles specifically for the remote or can you select the profile from the phone?

The joystick works as normal and the Android phone has 5 selectable speed options HALT!, 25%,50%,75% and 100% via the SPEED+ and SPEED- buttons.

It does however require a modicum of work to fit it , a nick must be cut into one half of the joystick pod and 3 wires must be soldered inside the pod, 2 power from the back of the charger socket ( or where ever is most convenient ) and an ON / OFF to the joysticks board..

[Martin King]

Thanks I was hoping to do it completely DIY, I've already done remote control using Android tablets/phones via Bluetooth/WiFi and built Bluetooth to Long range RF modules bridges so I don't need any of that. But while I find a lot of posts hinting at or saying that the R-Net protocol has been (or partly been) hacked and that people are working on decoding it it's hard to find actual details, closest is the Python Can2Rnet library so seems the next (painful) step is to pick that apart and figure out what it's doing. The other (simpler in some ways) option is Joysitick emulation. I do have an option of getting a spare P&G drive and making up a test rig but that's a fair bit more work than I was hoping for TBH.

[woodygb]

Joystick emulation.

[Martin King]

Thanks, yes I've seen that's, can it be used in conjunction with the existing joystick without interference or does it replace it? I was a bit concerned that if the controller got conflicting signals it might flag an error? I wondered about using an analogue switch IC but again concerned the switchover "glitch" may trigger a fault. I think you also mentioned running the existing joystick signal through the Arduino and using the Arduino to decide priority, I assume that's a different circuit to this one? Seems like the safest route.

[woodygb]

I use the Arduino to read both the original joystick and the Blue Tooth with priority being given to any input from the pods joystick.

I use a pro mini & digipot in a "deadbug" configuration that all fits inside a PP3 battery holder.

Here is drawing that may help... it's been modified several times and has some connections shown that are no longer required ..e.g. A0 ,A1 and A2.

The leds are simply 'a visual aid that indicate direction and throttle that get brighter via the PWM function .

[woodygb]

The JC2000 or MAID joysticks used on the P.G.D.T. Range are Dual Same Sense outputs ( PPOOO )...I.E. 2 outputs for each axis that match each other for error checking purposes.... to make things simpler I read just 2 and bifurcate the output from the Arduino back to the pods board.

https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/30691.pdf

[woodygb]

MORE info on the joystick and pin out numbers.

The discrepancy on the pin numbers between the joystick and the pods board is due to the ribbon cable having the sockets crimped on opposite sides.

[woodygb]

My B.T. interface arrangement... R/C interface is much the same , just has 5 pins coming out of the side for GND & 5V for receiver power and 3 signal pins.

[Martin King]

Sorry for the delay in replying, thanks for that, think that'll be the way to go. BTW what are the options for obtaining P&G programmers? At the moment he has to drive a 140 miles round trip to the nearest place and as he makes/tweaks his own chairs it's a major PITA every time he wan't some changes making. From what I've read there seems to be OEM and "dealer" versions but I'm not entirely clued up on the differences and availability but I assume OEM is hard to obtain and dealer very hard to obtain?

[Martin King]

Sorry for the delay in replying, thanks for that, think that'll be the way to go. BTW what are the options for obtaining P&G programmers? At the moment he has to drive a 140 miles round trip to the nearest place and as he makes/tweaks his own chairs it's a major PITA every time he wan't some changes making. From what I've read there seems to be OEM and "dealer" versions but I'm not entirely clued up on the differences and availability but I assume OEM is hard to obtain and dealer very hard to obtain?

Oops swap OEM and dealer. I've found some out of date links to software and details of the programming cable which seems to be just a bog standard FTDI USB serial lead with a simple diode mod although not quite sure why the diode is there, it's the wrong way round for use as a "loopback".

[Martin King]

... So, just to see if I've got this right or am completely up the wrong tree :-

There are two levels of P&G software, OEM (Good) and Dealer(not so good)?

There is an older version that uses USB serial via an XLR plug and a newer version that uses CAN Bus (R-Net) for programming?

For the older version you can just use a modified off the shelf USB serial lead but the newer CAN based version has some security "stuff" in the dongle so it also acts as software copy protection and not just as a programming lead?

Does this seem about right?

[woodygb]

Yup

There are as I recall 4 levels ...Service , Dealer , OEM and Manufacturer/Factory.

[ex-Gooserider]

... So, just to see if I've got this right or am completely up the wrong tree :-

There are two levels of P&G software, OEM (Good) and Dealer(not so good)?

There is an older version that uses USB serial via an XLR plug and a newer version that uses CAN Bus (R-Net) for programming?

For the older version you can just use a modified off the shelf USB serial lead but the newer CAN based version has some security "stuff" in the dongle so it also acts as software copy protection and not just as a programming lead?

Does this seem about right?

There are several different "families" of P&G controllers - parts from each will NOT work with parts from other families...

The older Pilot, Pilot+ and VR-net systems can be programmed with an FTDI serial cable through the XLR plug using some easily obtained software, so fairly low cost and easy. Pilot is ancient and VERY limited. Pilot+ is the most capable of the three, and VR-net is still in use but is essentially a 'budget' system w/ low power and limited functions....

R-net is the current 'state of the art' but requires a fairly expensive dongle... Best is a very expensive and hard to get "OEM" level dongle, but the slightly less expensive and easier to get "Dealer level" dongle can be used w/ OEM software and a bit of a work-around... (We can get you the OEM software...)

==========

Woody - first time I have seen your Robot Wars creation - nice but amazing how times have changed, I strongly suspect that if it went up against some of the modern "Discovery Channel" Robot War bots, it would get seriously shredded.... (they would also never let you power up one of the modern bots outside the battle box or test box for safety reasons....) Look up Valkyrie, which is made at Artisan's Asylum and is one of the several bots on the show with Artisan's connections.... That is SERIOUSLY scary - 165lb horizontal spinner with a tip speed of about 150mph it is terrifying just to hear them spinning up the weapon...

ex-Gooserider