Replacement Cell M6 too big ?

[expresso]

I just got an replacement 80ah Cell - wasnt expecting it till end of Nov. was pretty fast - packed well - looks brand new - nice small compact cell - price was good i think at $55 - its smaller and a bit thicker than my other cells but was $40 dollars cheaper so i got it

i asked what size was the screw - was told M6 - but its not - M6 is too big - i seen many M4 size and it maybe M4 also -

would anyone know what size nyloc is needed for an M4 set screw now i have to buy them - ? would it be M5 nyloc that fits M4 set screw ?


thanks

[foghornleghorn]

Original spec on my cells is M4 holes. M4 thread wants M4 nuts. Measure before buying something though.

[expresso]

i am sure your right - i seen it say M4 but i asked the seller and was told M6 - its not a big deal - i just want to get the correct size set screw and nyloc nut to fit it -

so if its a M4 set screw - i get a M4 nyloc nut also ?


how would i measure it though ?

[foghornleghorn]

You are in America I doubt you have a metric measuring stick?

M4 is 4mm overall including the thread but about 3.3mm clear hole down the middle.

M5 is 5mm overall including the thread but about 4.2mm clear hole down the middle.

M6 is 6mm overall including the thread but about 5mm clear hole down the middle.

[expresso]

i just ordered M4 from ebay - i am pretty sure its going to be M4 - i only ever seen them advertised with an M6 and now M4 -

i have a measure but cant find it now - does both metric and standard -

Cell looks very nice though - i like how compact it is in height -

[Burgerman]

Metric IS standard! Its what most of the planet use for everything. I dont even own imperial fractional inch tools any more. Threw them all away in the 70s.

[expresso]

yes but your not here in the US - its not standard here - but alot is metric also - its a pain in the ass to be honest - most tool kits come with both - most wheelchairs use metric - but Bounder is all American bolts standard as they call them

i once seen a documentary on that - at one time America did adopt the Metric system also - but it never took off for some reason and then it was changed to Standard - i am sure it had to do with Money somehow -

[Burgerman]

Common bolts (and nuts) are almost always
M2 tiny!
M3
M4
M5
M6
M8
M10 big, and usually 1.5mm pitch. But on japanese stuff like bikes 1.25MM pitch.
M12
M14
and up in 2mm jumps.

You basically need a set of metric allen keys. A set of metric spanners. A set of metic sockets and you can rebuild or take apart 99 percent of cars, bikes, obby stuff, powerchairs, etc. And after a bit they are all super easy to identify by eye. Threads, spanners, sockets, allen eys. You just look and know what tool is needed.

[expresso]

i have some metric - since i started with this battery stuff - i didnt even have much tools at all before then - just a little cheap set around the house - now i have metric allen sets - standard allen - sockets both metric and standard - i have what i need for most things now with the chairs - been a while since i done anything -

i have no more reasons to build new packs - unless i get a new chair one of these days - or for the bounder ONE day in the future -

[Bubbernator]

Hey Expresso- don't let them pick on you about your "Standard" tools. Because they are based on the "Imperial Measurement" system us colonials inherited from our British ancestors. We're just too stubborn and pigheaded to upgrade our confusing fractions and such.
And it does get confusing. I had an embarrassing moment years ago filling a Canadian gasoline can (5 gallons) at a US filling station. I pumped 5 gallons and it came up short in the can. I accused the owner of the station of fraud, rigging his pumps and I probably said something awful about his mother.
The Canadian can measured Imperial Gallons, which are a larger volume than US gallons. After the owner pointed that out to me I was forced to apologize and make a hasty shamefaced exit.

[expresso]

it is confusing with the fractions - and 13/16th of inch etc, metric would be much easier to just say 2mm 4mm or 4.5mm - keeping it simple - but its a mixed bag here - when i was a kid working at Mech. shop - i had to dig to find the right tools in fractions etc,

i am not good with that - i was Ok at one time in school but that was a long time ago - i just got some screws for my JS mount and they were 10-32 x 7/8 of inch - they worked - always get both tools in a kit - better that way down the line

[biscuit]

Metric makes a lot of sense and all gels with other metric as it was invented to be a system, it didn't simply evolve from the Roman soldier squad's marching pace length or whatever. Imperial and other systems make a different kind of sense, they are a bit more intuitive. The worst thing is traditional measurements converted to metric - machinery is made to measure precisely, not to the nearest mm. So it's impossible to mix and match! Things almost, but not quite, fit - so the spanners round your hex heads etc. Cooking measurements as well, converted to metric they are absolutely crazy. Also crazy measurements you see on Amazon etc. like 5486mm.

As for bolt pitches, I bought 1.25, 1.5 and 1.75 pitch nuts for the battery's m10 bolts, I can't remember which was the one that fitted, but I never realized that you get these different pitches, so I got it wrong as many times as possible first.

[Burgerman]

You generally dont get all those diffrent pitches. Almost every bolt you see is a standard metric thread. Unless a metric fine is mentioned. You barely ever see these.

Only on M10 do you see 1.5 and 1.25 pitch. 1.25 is common only on japanese bikes etc.

And if anything metric is very intuitive. Its all the imperial things that are hard work. Fortunately anywere but the US those no longer really exist. Only very old stuff.

Its stuff like tyres that baffle me. They use both at once.

[greybeard]

It's the same with tubing here in U.K. If you look on eBay almost every piece is a mixture of metric and imperial and usually only outer diameter and wall thickness is given. You have to work out the inner diameter yourself. Crazy system.

[woodygb]

Hey Expresso- don't let them pick on you about your "Standard" tools. Because they are based on the "Imperial Measurement" system us colonials inherited from our British ancestors.

....many British standards where altered/tweaked...particularly threads ... where they where altered from the Imperial 55 degree thread form to a 60 degree thus make the two incompatible.

[Burgerman]

Why did the americans shrink the gallon?

[woodygb]

Why did the americans shrink the gallon?

No idea ...and the other liquid measurements such as pints and quarts etc are also smaller as they follow the standard definition of a quart being a 1/4 of a gallon and a pint being 1/8th.
Edit:-

Wiki say's

The wine, fluid, or liquid gallon has been the standard US gallon since the early 19th century. The wine gallon, which some sources relate to the volume occupied by eight medieval merchant pounds of wine, was at one time defined as the volume of a cylinder 6 inches deep and 7 inches in diameter, i.e. 6 in × (3+1/2 in)2 × π ≈ 230.907 06 cubic inches. It was redefined during the reign of Queen Anne in 1706 as 231 cubic inches exactly, the result of the earlier definition with π approximated to 22/7.
Although the wine gallon had been used for centuries for import duty purposes, there was no legal standard of it in the Exchequer, and a smaller gallon (224 cu in) was actually in use, meaning this statute became necessary; it remains the US definition today.

In 1824, Britain adopted a close approximation to the ale gallon known as the imperial gallon, and abolished all other gallons in favour of it. Inspired by the kilogram-litre relationship, the imperial gallon was based on the volume of 10 pounds of distilled water weighed in air with brass weights with the barometer standing at 30 inches of mercury and at a temperature of 62 °F.

[quoteThe imperial gill is further divided into five fluid ounces whereas the US gill is divided into four fluid ounces, meaning an imperial fluid ounce is
1/20
of an imperial pint, or
1/160
of an imperial gallon, while a US fluid ounce is
1/16
of a US pint, or
1/128
of a US gallon. Since the imperial gallon, quart, pint, cup and gill are approximately 20% larger than their US counterparts, these are not interchangeable, while the imperial fluid ounce is only approximately 4% smaller than the US fluid ounce, and they are often therefore used interchangeably.[/quote]

[woodygb]

The fluid ounce being approx the same is due to another anomaly ...

The imperial gill is further divided into five fluid ounces whereas the US gill is divided into four fluid ounces

...thus bringing the 2 measurements back into alignment.

[Bubbernator]

Why did the americans shrink the gallon?

For the same reason that we do anything:
We're confused.

We're an amalgam of people, cultures, languages, religions and opinions.
Where else can you make a telephone call to a government office and have to sit and listen to a message prompting you to "Press 1 for English, Para Espanol marque 2, For Hindi, Swahili, Mandarin and Esperanto please stay on the line and a representative will assist you....."

The only metric measurement universally recognized by Americans is the two-liter bottle of Coca-Cola.
I often thank my 9th grade Science teacher for pounding the metric system and conversions into our young skulls. 1"= 2.54cm (thank you, Mr. Fain)

[Burgerman]

Well I use 25.4mm as nobody bothers with centimeters here much.

Yesterday I was building a squerrel feeder (as you do) and was shouting measurements to my carer to cut wood to size. I said 5 inches 4mm. And realised that inches were useful for that part of the measurement but mm were better than trying to figure out what daft fraction of an inch 4mm was.

Whan I went to school I learned both imperial and metric. And I still use both.

So does every car or motorcycle tyre on the road. Always the rims are like on my van, 9J X 19 inches. And the tyres are 255 (mm) /70% x 19 inches. Plasterboard is 4 feet x 900mm... By 3/8th or 1/2" and wood is still sold in 4" x 4" x 2 metres or a 3 metre lenth of 4 x 2... Crazy world. Cars in MPH, road signs in Miles, petrol in Litres, and so on.

[LROBBINS]

And believe it or not but seat belt hardware is still SAE and not metric, even here in Europe.

[Burgerman]

Wonder why that is.
7/16-20 UNF maybe its historical and to do with certification or recertification. Its a fine pitch thread.

Apparently you can tap them M11 if damaged.

Same reason we have inch diametrer wheel rims. Too lazy to swap. Since they would need to make new tyres too.

[biscuit]

shouting measurements to my carer to cut wood to size. I said 5 inches 4mm.

Aargh! Inches and mm in one breath! That is agonizing.

nobody bothers with centimeters here much.

or metres either. See above for millimeter lunacy.

[Burgerman]

Thats right. You buy things in mm. I just bought an 800mm shower tray for someone. And wood is 4 by 2 inches x 1700mm long... Plasterboard 900mm x 4 foot. Tyres 255mm/70% profile - 19 inch on my van. Just mm. My floor tiles are 300mm square. My kitchen appliances are all 600mm wide. My fridge is 1100mm. My powerchair is in mm too in its specs. Yet my TVs are in inches... My bikes and cars are in CCs Cubic Centimetres. My van is then 3.8 litres engine capacity. My is in pints (proper pints) in the pub. But in Millilitres in cans or bottles... And temp is in centigrade. Or kelvin. Distance in miles. Speed in MPH. Altitude in feet. Aircraft fuel in lb's. And litres. And KG... Been the cause of several airline crashes!

And I just discovered that the nuts that hold the wiper arm on my US van are imperial. Non of my tools fit. The rest of it all seems pretty metric. Although I never stripped it down. Why not stick to metric for all of it? Whats wrong with people?

[Bubbernator]

Supply chain economics.
A warehouse in Cincinnati had 500,000 SAE nuts on sale and the boat from China was late coming into port.
"Give me whatever you have. We'll change it later.... "

[expresso]

finally got the new nylocs and set screw - its M4 size - i was told it was M6 before i ordered - ok fine no big deal - i got the set screw - red locktite - looks fine - M4 is a bit small i think but as long as it works - now i just realized - i need a new washer that has a larger surface area - or else the M4 nyloc fits right in the middle of the wire rings -

i been on a roll lately here - one thing after another - would M4 flat washer by 12mm work ? would that be large enough - - or have to make new wires with one end smaller ring for the M4 side only ?

i am hoping i can get away with just a flat washer with larger surface area to hold down the wires

[Burgerman]

Order correct size terminals.

But a larger washer should work...

[expresso]

i want to try a washer first - dont feel like making new cables - buy new rings - which i will never use again maybe

and dont want to remove the other side of cable in case i loosen the set screw on another cell if loosing the nut there cause another issue - right now its simple to install the new cell just bolt it down - after i take it apart first -

as long as a washer would work - i take that route first

[Burgerman]

Dont overtighten m4 bolts! Warning... You will pull the thread out of the battery.

[expresso]

I didn't just red locktite and screwed it down just enough. The nyloc nut is small I won't over do it this time. Just enough and.check with pl8 dump load if it handles that it's good