10 years old + Motability

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10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 23 May 2017, 13:46

Still looks like new, ramp hasn't got any tyre marks, and inside as fresh as a new van.
Dont do many miles as the chair does all the local stuff, and only used when I need to carry something or go flying my planes etc. So low miles. And its valeted properly, even under the bonnet (hood) gleams and I never drive on salted winter roads unless I have to do so. Or wait for a dry day. Its washed only in rainwater from a barrel.

Yesterday, and now over a decade old below... Cost me 29k as a personal UK import from Canada brand new, inc tie down delivery, insurance, and special test that all imported vehicles have to do. Inc hand controls, and tie down fitted to my spec and a built in sat nav etc.

So repairs? Non.
Maintenance, adjust ramp so it works properly, myself. It used to be adjusted all wrong, door didn't always close, and other things. Now its all rattle free and perfect. 10 years ago!
Add solar panel, charge controller, Odyssey. Plus 4x £75 rims with expensive runflat P Zero tyres... You cant do that to a lease car!
Servicing? 1 oil change, Mobil 1 full synthetic 0w-40 race oil. (Theres no better. And a genuine filter.

Total cost so far 30,150 over 10 years, and its as good as new. Thats 3k per year. With a perfect van remaining. So 15k for 5 years use.

Now... Tell me again why people do notability?
30K down up front give or take a bit, and then pay £55 per week, then after 5 short years you get to give it back and start over??? Thats a cost of 14.7k (mobility allowance 5 years) plus 30k deposit, so total is 47k and its still not yours.
And to cover my 10 years thats 94k paid, and its STILL not yours!

I paid 30k and its still as new, pics from yesterday, and its mine from day 1. So I am baffled by all the rich people that can afford motability scheme leased vehicles.
10 year = 94k pounds compared to 30k buying from the US/Canada. And then its still not yours!
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 24 May 2017, 02:01

Been looking at UK and US car prices. For new vehicles, esp adapted lowered floor vans, but really ALL cars, the new prices in the US are about 3/5ths of UK prices.

Today a new Rollx van in the US will cost you 47K dollars. 35K Pounds for me to buy new. Thats cheap. Compared to nearly 60k here!

Then I looked at used cars. The biggest difference is that you have many cars for sale used with 100 thousand miles on the clock. Some double that! And you still value these at a level that in the UK we would think crazy. Theres 36 houses in my street. All have 1 or 2 cars. I would bet that none have more than 50 to 70 thousand miles, most are between a couple of thousand and say 30 thousand. And when we see a car with "high" mileage, say 70K we consider it as a old well used vehicle. Most of the scrapped cars in the dismantler's/breakers have way less than 100k miles. Some half of that.

A car with those kind of numbers goes very cheap used here! Nobody wants them. Or get scrapped. So I was amazed to look through the disability vans used at Rollx... And disability vehicles tend to do way less miles here.

The average mileage for four-wheeled vehicles in the UK stood at 7,900 miles (12,700km) in 2013, official figures showed. This represents a 14% fall from a figure of 9,200 miles in 2002, the first year for which data is available. That includes high mileage reps, work vehicles, taxis, etc. I suspect private users are half that.

New minivans, cheap! And we dont pay your purchase tax/car tax etc either. And get some discount if we argue. I did this 10 years ago when there was 2 dollars to a pound. http://www.rollxvans.com/inventory/?search=new&type=1

Or way too much, and far too many miles, many would be almost valueless here. http://www.rollxvans.com/inventory/?search=used
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby rustyjames » 24 May 2017, 15:09

A friend on mine just bought a new Honda Oddessy and paid about $65,000.00. Tax here is only for the vehicle, not the conversion. She could have bought a used one with low miles for probably half that amount. Here's what typically happens: a family member winds up in a wheelchair, then passes away soon after; the family no longer needs the van so they often sell it at a deeply reduced price to get rid of it.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 25 May 2017, 00:12

She could have bought a used one with low miles for probably half that amount.


But this is my thing...

We call low miles 10 to 20 thousand.

What do you call low miles? All the ones I see for exorbitant prices on US websites used appear to have done what we call "been around the world" miles, and are not cheap. Anything over say 50 is old age. Hard to sell for very much money unless in extremely good condition, like new. If something has 70k on it, we either practically give it away or scrap it! (generalization here obviously there are exception. Mostly police/taxi/rep cars)
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 31 May 2017, 16:56

To answer your question of why do people use motability instead of buying cars, it comes down to 3 main reasons (4 if you are in a weird situation like I was when I first started with motability).

The first is that they don't want the hassle of owning their own vehicle. If something goes wrong, the dealer or motability sort it all out for you generally and everything including insurance and road cover is included. When your 3/5 years with that car is up, you get a new shiny one.

The second (and third) ones are like myself. I can't afford the down payment to buy a vehicle (the 35k+) and due to my benefits, I am not allowed to save up more than £6k. So I use the motobility scheme. I haven't gotten a WAV yet, so I don't know how that will change, but supposedly Motobility offer grants to help with the 15K-30k down payment. The third reason is more weird in the insurance rules when we started, as to insure myself and my partner (who was learning to drive) would have cost more than the motobility + normal running costs due to age and learning.

The final reason is they don't know any better/can't be arsed to find out.

Looking at some of those prices/specs on the Rollx site I really wish I could afford 35K ish to import one. Which reminds me, I'm going to the Mobility Roadshow in NAEC Stonleigh. They are doing test drives for WAVs and wheelchairs, is there anything I should be on the look out for or avoid at all costs? Thanks :)
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 31 May 2017, 20:31

Young fit blondes. Most of the dealers use them to attract customers. It worked on me, I ended up in the bar with one about 10 years ago. Never bought a thing though.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 31 May 2017, 20:34

I have one of my own so no need for another, unless of course they don't mind sharing ;) The question was more directed to the WAVs and possibly wheelchairs (as the former I have never used before). :P
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 31 May 2017, 21:28

Just know what you want...

For eg, cheaper, usually, rear door entry vehicles are frustrating to use. Because you are driving in / out through any model planes, shopping etc. Very impractical. And many dont allow a full sized powerchair to be up front. And drive from wheelchair is the best way to go. I tried the alternatives. Its just too slow and hard work to do it any other way.

Easy way, best way?

Either a http://www.gmcoachwork.co.uk/platinum-v ... do?cp=true
By far the best and only properly lowered floor VW.

Or a US style minivan like my rollx. In both cases not cheap. But thats what you will end up with eventually after years of expense anyway! Buy cheap or not what you really wanted or needed and buy twice.
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/ramp.mp4
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 31 May 2017, 21:49

As my partner and I need to drive I'd need a drivers chair that I can transfer into from within the vehicle or one that was very easily removable/storable. Light pedals and a handbrake that doesn't dislocate my shoulder is my only things I currently look for. After that I'm not entirely sure what would be good. As I mentioned in the first post getting one of the cars from Rollx or that sort of price range is unlikely. Did you get any help to buy your vehicle through the Personal Health budget thing or is it personal funds if you don't mind me asking?
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 31 May 2017, 22:03

Both the above do exactly that.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 31 May 2017, 22:06

Money?

When I sold my business/tools etc it left me with a little. I bought a Caravelle VR6 adapted van. Sold that after 10 years for 15k and added another 15 to it that I saved by not wasting my mobility allowance on motability... To import a new Rollx van, when there was 2.00 dollars to a pound!
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 31 May 2017, 22:20

As mentioned before, I'd love to save up the money but due to the benefits I'm on I'm limited to £6K in savings. Getting off them currently is being problematic due to stupid interlinking and the DWP being extremely slow with the red tape. So that's not happening very soon. Hence I have to use the Motobility scheme or have no car/a car that is worse than my current one for independence. Fun and games :P
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 31 May 2017, 22:29

If you tell them and are saving for or about to use money to buy a mobility vehicle, roof, powerchair they allow it as an exception.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 31 May 2017, 22:39

When I asked about that before I was categorically told no that wasn't allowed and no exceptions are permitted apart from "emergencies". Is there somewhere that lists this to be true on one of their sites? I didn't find it when I last looked.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 31 May 2017, 23:54

On some gov site somewhere...
And same for local care budgets.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 01 Jun 2017, 18:40

I'll have another look. Thanks :) So is there anything I should look for or ask about when at the event? WAVs and wheelchairs will be my main focus. Side ramps rather than back ramps seem like it would be more useful, though how useful are they in disabled bays? Do you need more room in the next bay to drive down off the ramp? Are there any other things to do with WAVs that I may not of thought of as I haven't used them before? Thank you :) (Sorry for derailing your thread)
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 01 Jun 2017, 18:43

The side ramp needs 2 spaces. The rear ramp is just as much of a pain on the street. Theres no winner there.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 01 Jun 2017, 18:54

Would a side lift type be better?
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 01 Jun 2017, 19:12

Better to use! You keep normal luggage and rear seats to store people, dogs, groceries, model planes, tools, other junk... Without trying to drive through your shopping!
Roll up to the wheel, become electrically "tied down" in 1 second, turn key and drive from wheelchair once you shift the dog! http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/ramp.mp4

Rear seating, boot, etc all stays stock.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Electric tailgate for easy loading http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... -small.jpg
Grass airfiild, planes in boot! http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... -small.jpg
Hand control. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... -small.jpg
3.8 litre V6 http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... -small.jpg


Hence:

Easy way, best way?

Either a http://www.gmcoachwork.co.uk/platinum-v ... do?cp=true
By far the best and only properly lowered floor VW.

Or a US style minivan like my rollx. In both cases not cheap. But thats what you will end up with eventually after years of expense anyway! Buy cheap or not what you really wanted or needed and buy twice.
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/ramp.mp4
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 01 Jun 2017, 19:21

So look for a side lift if possible, if not a side ramp. Anything else you could think of that I might overlook/not realise? Thanks :) Also your dog is adorable, and very well behaved. Mine would be trying to circle around me or trying to squeeze past me to lounge on the back seats :P
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 01 Jun 2017, 19:31

Yes. Theres 2 sensible options. I Iisted both! :lol:
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 01 Jun 2017, 19:56

:) Yes. The GM one you listed looks wonderful. I was more asking for the event tomorrow (who might not have these in). I've never used a WAV nor been inside one to know what would be sensible design versus somethings that looks spiffy but not usable in the long run. The demos will be set up to make all of them look great, hence why I 'm asking if there is anything I should be on the lookout for.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 01 Jun 2017, 20:36

Many have inadequate floor space to turn, or a channel you must drive down and reverse out of (casters jam etc) and headroom. You need about 57 inches inside. Many have less meaning a special powerchair thats got about 30 yards range...
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 01 Jun 2017, 20:42

Thanks, I'll check those when I do the test drives. :) Anything else you can think of?
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 01 Jun 2017, 21:08

Not off hand. The stuff I aam talking about is for drive from wheelchair vehicles. Because non of the alternatives will work for me. At least easily. So never really looked at that.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby snaker » 02 Jun 2017, 03:46

I remember the year 2009 when my family decided to buy a car no matter used or new. All we need was just a 4-wheels vehicle that could run and transport me. My uncle lived in a big city, had much 'relations' and he knew a taxi company selling an used Innova (a 7-seats Toyota). It costs about $15.000 (1/4 -1/3 comparing to the new one at that time). We payed and my uncle came to that company to receive the car. He knew nothing about cars so he asked a garageman come with him. After having a slight look on the car, that guy immediately called to my dad and said "do not buy it, it already ran more than 300.000km". Eventually, the taxi company was fair enough, they refunded 100%.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 02 Jun 2017, 09:40

Mines done 10k. Miles. 16K Km. Using a chair is too easy here!
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby wheelinghome » 06 Jul 2017, 11:25

Burgerman wrote:
Total cost so far 30,150 over 10 years, and its as good as new. Thats 3k per year. With a perfect van remaining. So 15k for 5 years use.

Now... Tell me again why people do notability?
30K down up front give or take a bit, and then pay £55 per week, then after 5 short years you get to give it back and start over??? Thats a cost of 14.7k (mobility allowance 5 years) plus 30k deposit, so total is 47k and its still not yours.
And to cover my 10 years thats 94k paid, and its STILL not yours!

I paid 30k and its still as new, pics from yesterday, and its mine from day 1. So I am baffled by all the rich people that can afford motability scheme leased vehicles.
10 year = 94k pounds compared to 30k buying from the US/Canada. And then its still not yours!


I totally agree, I've never used motability. Such bad value. I've got a friend who always gets an Astra, so ends up paying £7500 ish to lease it for three years... which you could buy a 3/4 year old one for.

Something you didn't list on your comparison is insurance which is included on motability which might make a significant difference for people with no no-claims etc. I have a policy which covers any driver over 25 on my van for £400 which gives me flexibility on drivers without hassle whereas I believe with motability you're limited to two named drivers with a certain number of free changes per year.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 06 Jul 2017, 17:41

fish do special insurance for these. Mine costs around 320 per year.

And I damaged a few laws and bikes and cars over the years! Banned 5 times. Few bike write offs etc. My license was a special one with extra pages with all the nasty bits added. The consequence of a lifetime drag racing street turbo bikes and V8 cars/nitrous etc and the mental speed corruption it causes!

https://www.fishinsurance.co.uk/products/car-insurance/ get a quote!
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Mark » 30 Jul 2017, 11:40

As far as I can tell, most of the drive-from-wheelchair vehicles from motability have a very large chunk of the advance payment (if not all) covered by the grants department. That wasn't an option for me.

I now have a drive-from-wheelchair Mercedes Sprinter van (low roof, short wheelbase) which I am very pleased with. In the end I opted for a rear tail lift rather than side entry because it works better for most of the places I need to get in and out. However for a smaller vehicle rear access does involve domestic problems when you reverse over the shopping. I have repeated experience of this. However rear entry isn't such a problem with the Sprinter van because it is so roomy the shopping etc isn't in your way. I can carry a second wheelchair and get out past it easily. Also it is easy to turn around inside (in my F55) and drive out forwards, which I prefer. Even though I have the low roof version and it has a standard floor (i.e. not lowered) my wife can stand up and walk around inside.

Only downside is it uses more fuel than a smaller van. Approx 30 mpg diesel.
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