10 years old + Motability

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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 01 Jun 2017, 19:31

Yes. Theres 2 sensible options. I Iisted both! :lol:
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 01 Jun 2017, 19:56

:) Yes. The GM one you listed looks wonderful. I was more asking for the event tomorrow (who might not have these in). I've never used a WAV nor been inside one to know what would be sensible design versus somethings that looks spiffy but not usable in the long run. The demos will be set up to make all of them look great, hence why I 'm asking if there is anything I should be on the lookout for.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 01 Jun 2017, 20:36

Many have inadequate floor space to turn, or a channel you must drive down and reverse out of (casters jam etc) and headroom. You need about 57 inches inside. Many have less meaning a special powerchair thats got about 30 yards range...
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby salixfire » 01 Jun 2017, 20:42

Thanks, I'll check those when I do the test drives. :) Anything else you can think of?
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 01 Jun 2017, 21:08

Not off hand. The stuff I aam talking about is for drive from wheelchair vehicles. Because non of the alternatives will work for me. At least easily. So never really looked at that.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby snaker » 02 Jun 2017, 03:46

I remember the year 2009 when my family decided to buy a car no matter used or new. All we need was just a 4-wheels vehicle that could run and transport me. My uncle lived in a big city, had much 'relations' and he knew a taxi company selling an used Innova (a 7-seats Toyota). It costs about $15.000 (1/4 -1/3 comparing to the new one at that time). We payed and my uncle came to that company to receive the car. He knew nothing about cars so he asked a garageman come with him. After having a slight look on the car, that guy immediately called to my dad and said "do not buy it, it already ran more than 300.000km". Eventually, the taxi company was fair enough, they refunded 100%.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 02 Jun 2017, 09:40

Mines done 10k. Miles. 16K Km. Using a chair is too easy here!
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby wheelinghome » 06 Jul 2017, 11:25

Burgerman wrote:
Total cost so far 30,150 over 10 years, and its as good as new. Thats 3k per year. With a perfect van remaining. So 15k for 5 years use.

Now... Tell me again why people do notability?
30K down up front give or take a bit, and then pay £55 per week, then after 5 short years you get to give it back and start over??? Thats a cost of 14.7k (mobility allowance 5 years) plus 30k deposit, so total is 47k and its still not yours.
And to cover my 10 years thats 94k paid, and its STILL not yours!

I paid 30k and its still as new, pics from yesterday, and its mine from day 1. So I am baffled by all the rich people that can afford motability scheme leased vehicles.
10 year = 94k pounds compared to 30k buying from the US/Canada. And then its still not yours!


I totally agree, I've never used motability. Such bad value. I've got a friend who always gets an Astra, so ends up paying £7500 ish to lease it for three years... which you could buy a 3/4 year old one for.

Something you didn't list on your comparison is insurance which is included on motability which might make a significant difference for people with no no-claims etc. I have a policy which covers any driver over 25 on my van for £400 which gives me flexibility on drivers without hassle whereas I believe with motability you're limited to two named drivers with a certain number of free changes per year.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 06 Jul 2017, 17:41

fish do special insurance for these. Mine costs around 320 per year.

And I damaged a few laws and bikes and cars over the years! Banned 5 times. Few bike write offs etc. My license was a special one with extra pages with all the nasty bits added. The consequence of a lifetime drag racing street turbo bikes and V8 cars/nitrous etc and the mental speed corruption it causes!

https://www.fishinsurance.co.uk/products/car-insurance/ get a quote!
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Mark » 30 Jul 2017, 11:40

As far as I can tell, most of the drive-from-wheelchair vehicles from motability have a very large chunk of the advance payment (if not all) covered by the grants department. That wasn't an option for me.

I now have a drive-from-wheelchair Mercedes Sprinter van (low roof, short wheelbase) which I am very pleased with. In the end I opted for a rear tail lift rather than side entry because it works better for most of the places I need to get in and out. However for a smaller vehicle rear access does involve domestic problems when you reverse over the shopping. I have repeated experience of this. However rear entry isn't such a problem with the Sprinter van because it is so roomy the shopping etc isn't in your way. I can carry a second wheelchair and get out past it easily. Also it is easy to turn around inside (in my F55) and drive out forwards, which I prefer. Even though I have the low roof version and it has a standard floor (i.e. not lowered) my wife can stand up and walk around inside.

Only downside is it uses more fuel than a smaller van. Approx 30 mpg diesel.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 30 Jul 2017, 12:03

Lots of pictures needed!

Cost? Dealer?
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby motoman » 30 Jul 2017, 15:04

Boy....I wish I got 30 mpg :cry:

And yes, some pics would be dandy.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 30 Jul 2017, 19:31

One thing you may have missed is that ours are real gallons. Yours are shrunken gallons! :lol:

You have 3.78 litres to a gallon. We have 4.546 litres. So all our cars get more miles per gallon.

And our gallon is 5.36 pounds. Or 7 dollars. which may upset you! It does us. Diesel is more.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Mark » 31 Jul 2017, 10:05

Can't keep the mileage down like BM; we've done over 9000 miles in the 8 months we've had the Sprinter. Note the privacy glass in side windows; very useful when sorting out "personal accidents".

Just tried to attach photos but it says max attachment size is 256 kB. I'll get Sally to reduce the size so I can attach them. Probably later today.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 31 Jul 2017, 12:17

You realize that sprinters are transformed with a set of off road style rim/tyres and a 3 inch jackup kit?

Image

Question. Is yours lowered floor?
Is it reardrive?
Where from?
How much?

I was looking at these. And want a 4x4 one similar to the pic. For muddy flying fields... Drive from wheelchair. Ricon side door lift. Is it possible?
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Mark » 31 Jul 2017, 15:58

OK, tried to take some more photos with phone set to lowest resolution but they still came out at 294kB, so still waiting for Sally to covert to lower resolution.

Note: The following is very UK specific.

Question answers:
No, it doesn't need the whole floor lowering, but it does need a lift (not ramp) because the floor is fairly high. This gives the advantage of excellent ground clearance which was a problem in my previous two drive-from-wheelchair (dfw) vehicles. There is a small area where the driver's seat used to be that has been flattened rather than rising slightly but that is the only floor mod apart from lock-down points and wooden boarding under the carpet. I don't bang my head when entering in my wheelchair and Sally can stand up in the Sprinter even though it is the low roof model.

There are two flip-down seats in the rear and we usually have one down and the other up, giving plenty of room for an F55 to pass. Also the Sprinter is quite a lot wider than the VW caravelle series and gives enough room to easily turn my F55 around for socialising in the rear or driving out onto the ramp forwards.
As far as I'm concerned the less structural mods to the vehicle the better for longevity although I have to say that Sirus did an excellent job with their conversions of my previous two dfw vehicles.

It is rear-wheel drive not four-wheel drive.

Obtained from Motability because it was no more expensive over 5 years than my estimates of the cheapest alternative method that was practical for me.

Choices:
(1) Buy a new or s/h Sprinter and pay to have it converted including further lightened power steering as per my previous vehicle, plus powered hand controls and all the other adaptions I now need. Rejected as far too expensive compared to the following options:

(2) Buy s/h a Sprinter that was already converted to the specs I need or close enough to make the numbers add up when brought up to that spec. I located a dealer who tendered for the ex mobility dfw vehicles and then it was a question of waiting until one came up with a close enough spec. These tended to be 5-7 years old with the odd exception. Cost of this option depended on the residual value when I (or someone else) needed to sell the vehicle but not likely to be a quick sale when the time came.

(3) Lease from Motability. There was not a chance of me leasing a new vehicle because of the very high advance payment and I wouldn't get a grant, however I did manage to (eventually) access the Motability second-hand dfw system. This involved a similar long wait until a Sprinter with enough adaptations for me came back to Motability. This eventually happened and the spec was close enough for me with a few extra mods added. Essentially you are waiting for someone who already has similar needs to you to lose the ability to drive for whatever reason before the vehicle is too old for Motability to be prepared to re-lease it.

Because I do a high-mileage this option was likely to be the cheapest for me but this did depend on the resale price that could be obtained after 5 years of owning option 2 above. It could therefore end up more expensive than option 2 but the lack of hassle when doing a high mileage meant it made sense for us. However it isn't a quick or straightforward option, so option 2 could be an alternative although less-attractive for a high mileage driver.

There was another option that could potentially be cheaper still and that would be if you could buy an ex-Motability dfw vehicle at auction, cutting out the middle-man of option 2. However, although I have bought cars at auction before, and written up how to do it for a magazine (more ££ income) that is no longer practical for me. I also heard, but didn't double-check, that Motability sell the ex-lease dfw vehicles by tender, not auction, and won't sell directly to an end user. I've sold all my companies, so would have had to set one up specially, just to buy one vehicle. I don't have the mental energy these days to do that. Life is too short.

My choice of option 3 cost me a total of £4.5k up front plus the full UK HRMC which I consider the most sensible option for us given that we don't know what the future holds health-wise. Hope for the best but be prepared for the worst.

Its taken so long to write this that Sally has now converted the photos to low resolution:

DSC04290.jpg

Shows flattened section of front floor on drivers side.
DSC04305.jpg
showing the detachable "normal" driver's seat

showing the detachable "normal" driver seat
Attachments
DSC04718 copy.jpg
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Mark » 31 Jul 2017, 16:00

More photos:
Attachments
DSC05698.jpg
DSC05069.jpg
DSC04718 copy.jpg
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Mark » 31 Jul 2017, 16:02

Final 2 photos:

Turning around in F55, and pouring the coffee
Attachments
IMG_20170731_130711 copy 2.jpg
DSC05718.jpg
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Mark » 31 Jul 2017, 16:17

Burgerman wrote:
Question. Is yours lowered floor?
Is it reardrive?
Where from?
How much?

I was looking at these. And want a 4x4 one similar to the pic. For muddy flying fields... Drive from wheelchair. Ricon side door lift. Is it possible?


Yes Drive from Wheelchair is not too big a conversion - the company that did this van is quite near you BM and they produce ambulances, hence the @ambulance-grade" privacy windows in this Sprinter.

Yes I have seen a dfw Sprinter that had the lift in the side. Can't remember whether it was a Ricon or Braun lift. My Sprinter has a Braun lift, and the first thing I did when the vehicle was delivered was get the manual operation demonstrated and practiced in case the control system ever has a breakdown. Fairly simple to do, just like a hydraulic trolley jack.

The thing that I really like about the Sprinter is that there is a lot less to change than smaller vehicles where the whole floor is lowered and doors extended. You end up with a much more standard vehicle.
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Re: 10 years old + Motability

Postby Burgerman » 31 Jul 2017, 19:08

Thanks for the info, write up. This has me worried.

download/file.php?id=6874&mode=view

The step, where your feet go. My footplate / feet would hit that?
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