Oil. And Corrosion!

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Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby Burgerman » 12 Sep 2017, 16:03

When my van was new, I took it to a guy with a ramp. Mixed 1 pint of fresh cheap engine oil, mixed with a pint of paraffin/kerosene to make it thin and so it soaked into threads and connections, brake pipes etc. And had the guy blast it with a Schultz gun and air line into every possible empty space, and to cover and soak everything under the van. He was really pleased with the way the ramp, workshop now has a thin film of oil all over it.

I checked it on its 10th year (while it was getting an MOT) today, and its still there. Nothing shows any sign of rust. Every nut bolt still free. Tomorrow it gets its 2nd coat. It works. You never see any oily metal with corrosion.

Also it got a fresh 4 litres of Mobil 1, 0w40, filter. So we are good to go. Apart from the oil pressure switch thinks that theres no oil pressure. There is, it was measured. Quite high. So a new switch ordered.
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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby rustyjames » 12 Sep 2017, 22:15

You sure your guy is pleased with an oil film all over his ramp/shop? :lol: So, how many years has it been since the last oil change? I run Mobile 1 in my vans and let them go about 2 years since I only put a few thousand miles a year on them. Mobile 1 has a new "extended" range oil out that I'm going to switch to. Supposed to be good for a year :mrgreen:
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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby Burgerman » 12 Sep 2017, 22:45

Heres the thing. I know a lot about engines. Having spent years in a previous life studying such things, and running a business tuning and heavily leaning on bike engines. Turbos, nitrous injection, rolling roads and lots of dyno test time and 4 to 5 hundred BHP per litre! I kid you not.

So after all of that I am always baffled by this:

My US left drive Chrysler minivan has a 3000 mile oil change interval recommendation.
The exact same vehicle in the UK but RHD and with UK/EU marketing and handbook says 10,000 miles for some years, and 12,000 for later ones.

So. Which is correct?
I will tell you. The time to change the oil on a petrol engine if you really care, is when it becomes a bit darker but still just about transparent if held up to a light source. Or around 5 years, whichever is sooner since the anti corrosion additives get used up over time just sitting there. Although 50k miles probably wont hurt *that* much if you cant be bothered. Miles don't really matter. Modern oils are fine at silly mileages and will not change grade or properties but they do or can get loaded up with carbon.
Why change if dirty? Because carbon which makes it darker, is abrasive. And in time, the steel crank, soft metal shells, pistons/rings etc use up all the anti corrosion additives and so you get bearing corrosion etc.
The best point to change the oil depends on how much you care. As long as you don't do massive mileages the modern CNC machined engine will outlive the vehicle anyway.

Yes, mobil 1 0w-40 or 0w-50, beats all the others in tests and on friction wear tests, etc. And on 1 litre bike engines at 11k rpm, making 500bhp or so its required. Without it or similar they do around 15 seconds before failing.
But in a street driven low rpm vehicle making 50 to 80bhp per liter, you could use anything! Literally. Corn oil or two stroke oil would be fine. The rest of the vehicle would still die first. All that said, I still use Mobil 1 0w-40. And ignore the 10w-20SAE on the cap/book.
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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby rustyjames » 12 Sep 2017, 23:16

It's crazy over here with people changing their oil, because oil is cheap here. I know a lot of people who change at 3,000 mile intervals, or twice a year regardless of miles. I just bought 5 quarts of Mobile 1 "Extended Range" full synthetic for $25.00.
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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby Burgerman » 12 Sep 2017, 23:35

Most cars in the EU come with manufacturer oil change periods of 10 to 12k miles. Even the same vehicles. Proving that the typical US 3k periods are ridiculous and wasteful. All those lube shops, and a lot of brainwashing is the cause.

Unless you want your engine to have 300k miles left in it when your car is scrapped! Bearings in diffs, gearboxes, gears themselves, auto box internals, brake bands, torque converters, fuel system parts, water and steering pumps, CV joints, brakes, suspension and all the trim and bodywork all age and die sooner as it is.
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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby Burgerman » 12 Sep 2017, 23:39

Does anyone besides me remember when Mobile 1 came out it was advertised as a "25,000 mile between oil change" product?
I called Mobile and asked them what they had done to make the oil "worse" than it used to be. "Nothing" was their response.
Then I asked why their oil would no longer last as long as it used to, given the presumed improvements over time.
Their response was more lengthy, but boiled down to auto manufacturer's warranty issues.

These questions were asked in 1998. Now Mobile is producing a product that they claim is a 15,000 mile "EP" oil. Still, no indication that their prior formula has become worse, or the earlier product was degraded.
More additives in the EP? Probably. But if the old oil started off being able to handle 25,000 mile intervals, I'm pretty confident it will still do at least 10,000 mile intervals with no difficulty at all.

So why is it that some better informed people such as ourselves believe that we need to change Mobile 1 at 3000 - 5000 mile intervals? Do our more modern engines produce more acids than the engines of 30 years ago? Do they produce more particulate matter that needs to be drained in order to be gotten rid of? My 17 year old Vette runs no hotter and no cooler today than it did when new, but the old Mobile 1 was perfectly acceptable at that time, and likely still is.
Are newer oil filters worse at filtering than oil filters were 30 years ago?
In short, where is the logic in spending more for "EP" and changing far more often than the oil calls for?
Just a series of questions that have been tickling my brain.
Glen


From another forum. I had a load of the original mobil 1. And it did say good for 25k miles. The oil doesent deteriorate like mineral oil. And the filter takes out any crap big enough to be an issue.
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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby segreen » 17 Sep 2017, 12:36

I checked it on its 10th year (while it was getting an MOT) today, and its still there. Nothing shows any sign of rust. Every nut bolt still free. Tomorrow it gets its 2nd coat. It works. You never see any oily metal with corrosion.


That's because you never go out in it! Any van that's parked up all the time is not going to get rusty. It's not how old your van is, it's the mileage you do and yours doesn't leave the drive. I drive the same van as you only mine is a 2005. Every other year it's been waxoyl from new and underneath it's looking like a 12-year-old van with 90k on the clock - full of rust. In fact the air conditioning box underneath has just died a death with rust. But it's a well used van and used daily.

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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby Burgerman » 17 Sep 2017, 14:10

Well I do 8x less miles! Yes. Thats why its like new! And why motability makes no sense.
11k on the clock! Looks literally like new. Even the ramp is clean and carpets unmarked.

Use a powerchair mostly. Only drive if its a long way. Or flying site etc.

Does your ramp still fold the wrong way? You had B pillar rust if I remember correctly 5 years ago. Thats got nothing to do with driving. Its from the inside. It put me off Braun vans. Saw 2 like that.

Only thing that went wrong with mine (after I adjusted the door/ramp cams myself so it is reliable, and closes properly and doesent rattle) was an oil pressure switch. I got one on ebay for 4.99 and have not fitted it yet.
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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby segreen » 17 Sep 2017, 16:58

Does your ramp still fold the wrong way? You had B pillar rust if I remember correctly 5 years ago.


Not sure what you mean there John, regarding the ramp? It's not folding the wrong way and B pillar rust? I think you've mixed me up with someone else.

While we're on the subject of motors, I'm after a new van. I agree with you that side entry is a must but I not sure about ramp or lift. Thought about a Caravelle from Jubilee Mobility with LH drive, onboard lift and lowered floor. Do GM do an inboard lift or just underfloor lift? Don't know much about the Mercedes. Any thoughts?

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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby Burgerman » 17 Sep 2017, 17:39

Maybe?

I think the only ones that do a proper lowered floor is the https://www.gmcoachwork.co.uk/platinum- ... e-colorado

Underfloor or clearway indoor lift.

The rest need a low powerchair...
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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby F3Head » 17 Sep 2017, 21:33

If you're interested I had to replace the oil pressure switch in our Chrysler 2014 Town & Country. I had it done at the Chrysler dealership under warranty.
The oil pressure switch has a different part number than the original. You also need gaskets. I'm not sure what year your Chrysler is but it may be different.
I'm suspecting the new oil pressure switch part number may be an improvement to the original.

F3HEAD

A Check Engine Light Is on:

Part Number: 5149062AB Switch Oil Pressure
Part Number: 5184562AC Gasket Intake Plenum
Part Number: 5184331AC Gasket Intake Manifold

3.6 L Engine
Engine Light Is on. Remove and Replace the Oil Switch All OK.
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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby Burgerman » 18 Sep 2017, 02:11

Why on earth do you need gaskets? :shock:

I just bought a generic oil pressure switch on eBay. 6psi, 1/4 bspt, same looking connector as many vehicles today. 2 mins to fit. It will fit anything with the right thread. Thats half the cars on the road. Same price as 1 beer in my local hotel.

Part 5

Image
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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby Burgerman » 18 Sep 2017, 02:37

Just spotted yours is 3.6. And different to the 3.3 and 3.8 thats in most of these.

Yours is a pig to get to. But again, no gaskets? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H0Sjp3AcAc
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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby F3Head » 18 Sep 2017, 22:24

Interesting find. My only guess is the service bulletin required new gaskets.
Such a wealth of information on YouTube. I'm sure the dealer doesn't care how it gets done
as long as they're reimbursed from Chrysler. But if the service bulletin calls for it
they do it the way the service bulletin instructs.

No problems with it since… let us know how you make out changing your oil sender. Curious…

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Re: Oil. And Corrosion!

Postby Burgerman » 19 Sep 2017, 00:15

Its a easy to reach, (not from a chair!) single nut. You just unplug connector, unscrew. Throw away. Screw in new, plug in.
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